I went cruising around Lake Erie Saturday, then north to London to do this interview with CTV.
More shortly.
Actually, on second thought, I have only this to add:
Last year, I was one of only 16 MPs who voted not to bestow “nation” status on the Quebecois.
I’ve just made my feelings about Western secessionists incorrectly obvious.
I went to Ottawa in two elections to represent Canada. I’m a federalist, a nationalist, a member of the country’s Parliament.
The fact I’m news, and under the gun by a bevy of leaders and political parties, for ripping separatists, is a sad thing.
I understand well this is all about positioning, power and votes. But it’s also about principle.
My choice is made.
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86 comments ↓
Get an invite for a QP sit-down tomorrow with Mrs. Taber?
Risky strategy y’all are on. Be careful or you’ll be cinged. Keep the focus on the environment, not on the lost auto or forestry jobs, etc.
I am a 4th generation English Quebecer, and 6th Generation Canadian.
I appreciate your comments about the Bloc…..It’s about time someone has the balls to say something.
As far as I am aware in any other country a political party that’s sole purpose is to break-up the country would be considered TREASON!
I will never understand why our country allows a political group to exist for this purpose…….and why we pay them, why they will benefit from a Canadian pension…….so-on and so-on…..
Political parties should exist for the benefit of our Country not for it’s detriment.
Keep up the good work!
Jeremy
Whats to apologize for Garth. I agree 100% with you. If separatists, no matter what province you are from, don’t like it tough. Let them whine and cry Canadians who believe in one strong country will support you and any others in this great country who tell the separatists where to shove their thoughts.
Mr. Dion, you should be supporting Garth for his strong stance against those that talk of such crap.
“I understand well this is all about positioning, power and votes. But it’s also about principle.
My choice is made.”
Well said- I didn’t know you could say that if you are a true Liberal. Clearly your leader thinks he doesn’t have that choice. What then, do we make of that?
Garth, why did you give the do-nothing environment minister an opening? Why? And if you really want to be an ambassador for Mr. Dion’s plan, is it that wonderful an idea to antagonize Albertans? And why do you use words like ‘stones’ in macho contexts, etc. Are you that enamoured of your youth following on this blog that you have to use their jargon? Isn’t it your blog that has got you into a wee bit of trouble with Mr. Dion? ‘Stones’?? I don’t understand that word in the context you use. Bring your audience up to a higher level; don’t drop to theirs. Try it.
Ah, got the front page attention you think you so richly deserve I see. Just had to show us. Bet you ordered multiple copies! Nice way to get it too! BTW you still need to apologize for the comment, not on the basis of race, but on the basis of profiling all Canadians who oppose the Libs as separatists.
That, of course, is crap. — Garth
I wanted to send a brief note to say I see nothing wrong with your comments about Quebec Separtists. Why are people getting so upset when you portray in a negative (but very accurate) light, people who wish to break up our country? Your comments were astute, if unorthodox, but that tends to unnerve people.
Keep up the good work.
Jeremy
Garth, people who do care about the country and can see through the smokescreen the Cons are creating know whats up…
http://impolitical.blogspot.com/2008/07/look-bright-shiny-object-over-there.html
Garth,
I am for a united Canada.
In another form of government you may be commended for calling those who wish to separate losers, but in Canada where seperation is a constitutional right given to each province, to call those who wish to pursue a such right losers is a very attack on our founding principles.
We are a federation. We are united by a desire to be together. If some lose that desire then we should not call them names but we should argue why we should stay united.
I want a united Canada. Sovereignists don’t. But until they get their way, and even in trying to separate, their still Canadians.
-scott
Seriously?
Close to half of the population of Quebec, somewhere in the 40%-50% range, support an independant Quebec. 49.42% of the population voted to secede in the 1995 referendum. You called them all “self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers”.
In the next breath you compared them to Albertans.
In the CTV interview you complained that your words had been twisted, how so?
We haven’t heard anything from the separatist ‘losers’ in years, thanks for giving them a reason to rally.
My reference was to the Quebec separatists Dion stared down following the 1995 referendum. There’s one twist for you. — Garth
GARTH!!! … Just admit that you didn’t compose this sentence at all:
He stood up once to the self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers in Quebec. I guess he can do it again in Alberta.
… it was Dion who wrote it for you to put on your blog !!!!
Now why would Dion make you do such a thing … because you are too shrewd to say such a thing without approval from somebody high up in the Liberal party???
I smell a ‘hidden agenda’ here Garth … yup, you are being used to stir the pot in Quebec for Dion .. so obvious ..!!!
What was the true intention behind this patently obvious political ploy ???!!!!
(It’s pure Occam’s Razor stuff .. so so obvious ..LOL)
Just saw your performance on T.V. which confirms to me that my slight is not all crap. You are clearly angling for national attention with your biker get up and all. The one day Dion should be headlining in Calgary, there you are! This comment you made will not be forgotten in Quebec or Alberta. Also, where did your debate on GST (Green Shift Tax) go. I have seen very little decent debate on your blog lately. That is, substantial input from you. Was this not your summer task, Mr. communications adviser?
But did you like my new bike? — Garth
I’ve always thought a major display of harper’s complete disregard for democracy to be his willingness to use the bloc to help pass motions. It’s disgraceful the way people responded to your words, even if they were over the top in the poignant department…
then again we have a pm who’s press crew use words like ‘shaft’ and a pm who says things like ‘screw’… so I suppose your really just fitting in with the new political lingo.. fuddle duddle to all…
To you Mr. Turner, I say this, why the hell aren’t you leader of the Liberal party?
We’ve been watching spineless bureaucrats or theives like Jean Chretien rule and waste our economy, our pride and our ability to stand proud as Canadians. We need a leader who’s willing to stand up for our country and show the world that we are not a country of “nations”.
And to be quite frank, it’s refreshing to see an honest statement from a politician.
Well done!
I just heard what you think off our hard working oil patch workers and as a one time Ontarioian I cant beleive what you said . You are a disgrace to your position and should not talk out of your ass. I have heard of ALBERTA INDEPENDENCE around the water cooler talk.But thanks to you my mind is made up and I”ll now opely support them . You sit there bitching about Alberta but just look in your own backyard we sell oil and send you bloodsuckers BILLIONS of dollars and you never seem to say no to it if you really think we are so bad stop taking our hard earnd money .Why are there only two pallbearers at a Liberals funeral? There are only two handles on a garbage can!
But actually, that is what you have been doing. Communicating for the sake of a specific strategy? Stirring up the separatist debate so the Libs can pose themselves as the only federalist option. Alberta and the west is a write off so that is your only hope. You need the Quebec federalist vote to form a Government. The Occam’s razor comment may well be apt.
Yes indeed, a nice bike. I’m stuck with a Hardley, so I’m a little envious! Nice handle bars as well.
Garth;
You are just another Liberal from Ontario/Quebec. You have no clue about Alberta. You think there is a separist core in Alberta just like your Quebec you hold algience to. Your tough talk about Quebec separtist is just that, talk. You Liberals are the reason Quebec separitist get so much attention.
Just keep quiet about Alberta that you so want to do another NEP from 1981 again. You want to shut our Alberta economy down again. Tax the hell out of us again and spend it in Quebec/Ontario.
Have a good summer vacation talking about “Alberta Separists.”
Darrel
I have heard of ALBERTA INDEPENDENCE around the water cooler talk.But thanks to you my mind is made up and I”ll now opely support them .
BY DOUG ON 07.05.08 11:41 PM
Prattle on Doug. BC is going to separate, the Maritimes are going to separate, Quebec is going to separate, the West is going to separate. We’ve heard it all before and it isn’t going to happen in your lifetime or mine. If you and your water cooler buddies had an ounce of common sense you’d talk hockey and cash your cheques. What idiotic misguided outrage.
By Spencer on 07.05.08 11:45 pm
But actually, that is what you have been doing. Communicating for the sake of a specific strategy? Stirring up the separatist debate so the Libs can pose themselves as the only federalist option. Alberta and the west is a write off so that is your only hope. You need the Quebec federalist vote to form a Government. The Occam’s razor comment may well be apt.
………………………………
BINGO !!!! … You catch on fast, Spencer … because there are no ‘mistakes’ in advertising or politics .. that is Garth Turner’s brand of politics. Just remember, Dion made Garth his communication guru … and he has communicated a message on behalf of Dion to again polarize the Quebec soft nationalist vote and spook the Quebec federalists … thus bring back the old dis-equilibrium in Quebec that the Liberals exploited so well.
Yes indeedy .. such a statement by our MP Garth was intended to push the soft separatists in Quebec back to the BQ fold and deny the Conservatives the benefit of riding down the middle with a split vote come the next election. A strong BQ in Quebec denies the Conservative the soft separatist their vote, and the Montreal Island federalists will flock back to the Liberals … so obvious.
Just watch what happens in the next Quebec by-election in Westmount in Montreal with Marc Garneau as the Liberal poster boy … and the effects of MP Garth’s hatchet job on Quebec separatists.
Good try, Garth …. udaman …!!!!
“L’union entre les peuples, le secret de l’avenir.” / “The unity of the people is the secret of the future” –Sir Wilfrid Laurier (1841-1919)
Just because you claim your blog to be “unedited” doesnt mean you have to be an asshat, Garth.
Save the narrowmindedness for the Tories and Americans, the Grits are supposed to be a little better than that, or so I thought.
Of the comments above, the ones who intentionally twist Garth’s words, play a cynical political game. Of the ones who who don’t understand what Garth said in context, and slammed Garth, I don’t know how Garth tolerates these dolts. It’s nice to see a politician like Garth, but I guess total honesty isn’t some people’s cup of tea. On the other hand, M. Dion is a great guy, and his particular style is that he prefers respectful. From what I see, Mr. Turner and Mr. Dion are both very fair, strong and gutsy politicians, and I admire them for that. At least they speak their minds, which is more than can be said for the muzzled bunch who seem to have been elected for no good reason.
Fret none or very little, Mr. Turner. You’ve done a good thing.
Stephen Harper brought out his Quebecois is a nation thing, not having the guts to say Quebeckers. But then, he’d have been gassed by his own people. It was enough of a bone to the Bloc to give them some faint hope. Harper promptly turned around and ridiculed the Bloc the next day and every day pretty much ever since.
Duceppe was duped. Quebec was duped. And Alberta is being duped by the duplicitous Stephen Harper. For what you ask? For Stephen Harper’s bid for his majority. He thinks Canadians are sheep, easily steered. Funny, there he is at the Stampede and hasn’t a clue that it is he who has been run down, roped and hogtied!
Thanks for throwing a wrench into Harper’s works!
Keep on keeping on, Garth!
“Two things bother me: When party members don’t have the ability to pick their own candidate, what is the value of party membership? More important, when candidates are selected either directly or through backroom machinations of the party’s apparatus, you create a situation where elected MPs know they owe their position to the party’s backroom more than to their own constituents. If that’s the case you’ve lost the ability to assure your own freedom.”
That’s a little excerpt from the Ottawa Citizen story on the ‘fixer’ Finley. Which explains why you love this new-found freedom so much G.
Just wanted to mention when one reads the entire article, after awhile it doesn’t feel like your reading an article about an advisor to the PM anymore, it feels more like one is reading an article about the Mafia. Really, go read it. My but those Cons are so so Dirty & Vicious! So nobody ever crosses Harpo eh? Well now we know why the extra million.
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/observer/story.html?id=d9c2d075-fe60-4a23-8559-d6527724ae95&p=2
By Scott Ross on 07.05.08 11:19 pm
Good points. You’re blog, though a bit crass, had me smirking a time or two as well. (June 11th was a gut buster, lol) Cheers Ross.
By Doug on 07.05.08 11:41 pm
A politician’s words offend Doug and thats all it takes, he’s “gonna separate”! Wow, thats logical!! (sharp as a pingpong ball this one is)
By Darrel on 07.05.08 11:53 pm
If you’re intent on putting words in other peoples mouths, try learning how to spell so we can more fully understand you. (just sayin’)
Garth, just keep on saying it your way.
Some you win some you don’t. BUT do it your way.
As long as you are your own man you will win. Even when you lose.
I once tried to start a separatist movement for Vancouver Island.
Hey, we are more than 1/3 bigger than PEI and double the population.
First Law of the land: NO POLITICIANS!
So, how do you run the new country??
Incorporate and sell shares. But only to residents.
Then you hire professional managers and fire them when they do not do what you want.
Well, I could not talk enough Islanders into it so here we are going to carry on being an appendage to y’all.
There’s a huge difference between Quebec and Alberta.
Queebeckers want to separate because they want to protect their “Frenchness,” whatever that is. Meanwhile, they bleed ROC dry. ROC needs to call Queebec’s bluff because on it’s own it is Zimbabwe, or worse.
Alberta, on the other hand, has the gold and therefore makes the rules. If it wants to separate, it will, and ROC can freeze in the dark, to paraphrase Ralph Klein. But you can all huddle in an empty Chevy Suburban plant. If you flap your wings hard enough you’ll keep warm even in winter.
That should have been “don’t like” Ignatief….
Mr. Dion, you should be supporting Garth for his strong stance against those that talk of such crap.
By Randy on 07.05.08 10:56 pm
For calling people “losers”? If Garth had called the seperatist vision a “losing vision”, then that’s one thing. But, calling Canadians “losers” is really hitting below the belt!
Hang in there Garth.
You have just said what most of us are thinking.
Dr Mike Popovich.
By Harry S on 07.06.08 12:19 am
United Canada is the only way….
People like Harry S. who support the assasination of the Leader of the Opposition, are only interested in dividing Canada. I support my MP on this issue.
Garth,
I am for a united Canada.
In another form of government you may be commended for calling those who wish to separate losers, but in Canada where seperation is a constitutional right given to each province, to call those who wish to pursue a such right losers is a very attack on our founding principles.
We are a federation. We are united by a desire to be together. If some lose that desire then we should not call them names but we should argue why we should stay united.
I want a united Canada. Sovereignists don’t. But until they get their way, and even in trying to separate, their still Canadians.
-scott
By Scott Ross on 07.05.08 11:19 pm
In Canada separation is not a constitutional right which was proven by the Nova Scotia case.
You can die and I’ll be happy and all your bastard family also
A french canadian loser and proud to be so
Roger
Hey Garth,
I’ve been casual observer since your Tory days.
This blog thing is fantastic. Finally some truth. Keep it up. And any time you feel like running for PM, I’m behind you 150%.
We’ve got a great country. Let’s keep it that way. Please continue to keep Dion and the separa-losers in check. And while you’re at it, anything you can do to keep us out of stupid wars would be just fine.
Steve in London
I live in Manitoba & have always supported the LIBERALS. I will not now due to the current leader & his environmental issues.
I own a business & I just can afford to pay extra for the heat we need in winter. Someone in Ottawa needs to THINK about our heating requirements when is -40 degrees & blowing 40 mph. WAKE UP!
I admire your stand, It may not be popular but, hey , good for you!
Tell you boss I will not send any more money to the party….. I have to save it for the heating bills
For calling people “losers”? If Garth had called the seperatist vision a “losing vision”, then that’s one thing. But, calling Canadians “losers” is really hitting below the belt!
By Catherine on 07.06.08 5:20 am
Gees, would that compare with Harper calling Maratimers “defeatists”!
Maybe Maritimers
There’s a huge difference between Quebec and Alberta.
Queebeckers want to separate because they want to protect their “Frenchness,” whatever that is. Meanwhile, they bleed ROC dry. ROC needs to call Queebec’s bluff because on it’s own it is Zimbabwe, or worse.
Alberta, on the other hand, has the gold and therefore makes the rules. If it wants to separate, it will, and ROC can freeze in the dark, to paraphrase Ralph Klein. But you can all huddle in an empty Chevy Suburban plant. If you flap your wings hard enough you’ll keep warm even in winter.
By islander on 07.06.08 3:25 am
What a load of crap. So you’re saying do anything to imperil your “right” to burn carbon, even by discouraging others outside your borders to burn carbon, you’d separate. Have your own little carbon-spewing polluted toxic-waste dump site country. What would become of you once the world has moved on and you’re stuck living in the 20th century squeezing every last drop of oil that no one wants out of those tar sands.
Harper and Bush are not going to be around forever shilling for the oil companies, promoting this dead end carbon dependent mentality. You can’t stop it. The wheels are already in motion world wide despite the lies they’re telling you. Adapt or Alberta may be the biggest loser in the end. Who will you turn your rage against then?
Catherine, Janice, et al love to “go back” in time to trash Liberals. Well I’ve gone back and the Conservatives sure have done their share of bigotry and have absolutely no right to criticize others – they need to clean up their own doorsteps.
“B.C. gets no protection from an immigration department that imports literally thousands of criminals into British Columbia who prey upon law abiding citizens.”
- Darrel Stinson, Conservative MP, Hansard, April 27 1998.
Immigrants are choking welfare systems, contributing to high unemployment, and many cannot read.”
- Conservative MP Art Hanger, Canadian Press, February 2, 1994.
“There are many ways to include aboriginal women in things. In my instance, my wife is aboriginal, so that does lend a little spice at home and there isn’t thin soup on the home front.”
- John Duncan, Aboriginal Affairs Committee, June 4, 1996.
“The Europeans came to this country 300 years ago and opened it up and settled it and because we didn’t kill the Indians and have Indian wars, that doesn’t mean we didn’t conquer these people. If they weren’t in fact conquered then why did they allow themselves to be herded into little reserves on the most isolated, desolate, worthless parts of the country.”
- Athabasca MP David Chatters on Aboriginal people.
“Do you notice that in Toronto there has been increased crime from certain groups, like Jamaicans? ”
- Calgary Northeast MP Art Hanger during a get-acquainted tour of Toronto’s ethnic communities, to a storekeeper about crime, quoted in the Edmonton Journal, March 14th 1994.
I want the whole world to know that I do not condone homosexuals. I do not condone their activity. I do not like what they do. I think it is wrong. I think it is unnatural and I think it is totally immoral. I will object to it forever whenever they attack the good, traditional Canadian family unit that built the country.”
- MP Myron Thompson.
“When you go into the issue of homosexuals and lesbians it’s in the interest of society to have the right to discriminate against that group in areas of … schools is one that comes to mind.”
- Conservative Party Natural Resources critic Dave Chatters arguing in favour of discrimination against gays on a radio station in Westlock, Alberta, on April 30th 1996.
“You can’t scalp me because I haven’t got much hair on top of my head.”
- Saskatchewan Canadian Alliance candidate Brian Fitzpatrick during a native-organized candidates debate, November 2000.
I have strong concerns that we’re building shelters on a grander and grander scale. I don’t think there’s a person in here who would expect these excesses.”
- Conservative Party Homelessness Critic Peter Goldring in the Calgary Herald, March 6th 2002, calling the Calgary Drop-In Centre the ‘Cowtown Casa Loma” of Canadian shelters.
I want to assure the House and everyone watching today that if I did say something, and I am not saying I did, it certainly was not meant as a racist slur as the hon. member has accused. ”
- Conservative MP Jay Hill, October 28th 1999, apologizing to the House for heckling African-Canadian member of Parliament Gordon Earle with demeaning comments about slavery, including that Earle was “in chains.”
….if this isn’t enough to make anyone ill, I can provide more.
I didn’t read all the comments here so I may be repeating what lots of others say. However, Garth, I don’t agree with you on many of your points but I sure agree with you on your vision of a Canada that we are all a part of.
Separatists are scum, plain and simple.
You are 100% correct. It is time to call a spade a spade. Separatists in Quebec or in Alberta are just that. S. Dion told them very clearly at the time and he needs to tell them again.
Lots of emotions swirling around regarding Garth’s comments.
Here is some factual information:
The definition of treason:
Treason, sedition mean disloyalty or treachery to one’s country or its government. Treason is any attempt to overthrow the government or impair the well-being of a state to which one owes allegiance; the crime of giving aid or comfort to the enemies of one’s government. Sedition is any act, writing, speech, etc., directed unlawfully against state authority, the government, or constitution, or calculated to bring it into contempt or to incite others to hostility, ill will or disaffection; it does not amount to treason and therefore is not a capital offense.
It is important to realize that in many countries leading any kind of succession movement or independence movement is viewed as an act of treason, and in some cases in punishable by death, or at the very least, imprisonment.
For example, it is illegal in the United States for a state to succeed from the union.
In Canada, thanks in part to Stephane Dion, we have the Clarity Act which lays down a framework for a free, clear vote on such movements. The Supreme Court has ruled that should a yes vote be achieved then both sides must negotiate a settlement. Unilateral succession is not an option.
We are one of the few countries that treat the potential of succession in such a mature, and disciplined way.
Here is an article showing how this issue is treated in other countries.
Azerbaijan convicts editor, colleague of treason
Last Updated: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 | 5:27 PM ET Comments2Recommend2
CBC News
A newspaper editor in Azerbaijan has been sentenced to 10 years in prison and a colleague received six years after they were found guilty of treason.
Novruzali Mammadov, the editor of Talysh Sado, and Elman Guliyev, the paper’s administrator, were convicted by a court in Baku, Azerbaijan, on Tuesday.
The two were accused of undermining Azerbaijan’s statehood and promoting Talysh nationalism.
The Talysh are descendants of tribes who were once part of Iran and live in the south of the former Soviet republic.
Guliyev acknowledged in court that Talysh Sado, or Voice of the Talysh, had received $1,000 per month from Talysh organizations in Iran.
Azerbaijan is seeking to suppress a Talysh nationalist movement that is demanding self-determination and closer ties to Iran.
Independent journalists have been threatened, jailed and killed in oil-rich Azerbaijan.
An editor was sentenced to eight years in prison in 2007 for writing about potential U.S. plans for an invasion of Iran.
There has also been harassment and intimidation of opposition journalists ahead of the presidential election in Azerbaijan in October.
The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, a rights group, passed a resolution Tuesday expressing concern at what it called the deteriorating human rights situation in the country.
There are obviously people in this country who would like to see their province separate from Canada.
For those who are interested, the “Free Alberta” web site contains a lot of opinion on this subject from an Alberta perspective.
I find it strange that the greatest country on earth should find itself with groups who want to break up this miracle called Canada.
If that is your orientation then please do not insult the rest of us by calling yourself a “Canadian”.
“I live in Manitoba & have always supported the LIBERALS. I will not now due to the current leader & his environmental issues.
I own a business & I just can afford to pay extra for the heat we need in winter. Someone in Ottawa needs to THINK about our heating requirements when is -40 degrees & blowing 40 mph. WAKE UP!
I admire your stand, It may not be popular but, hey , good for you!
Tell you boss I will not send any more money to the party….. I have to save it for the heating bills
By DL on 07.06.08 8:08 am”
Have you calculated your potential corporate income tax reduction and used the information in The Green Shift to calculate the approximate amount that your heating costs will rise? Have you investigated the kinds of technology you can incorporate in your business to take advantage of the Accelerated Capital Cost Allowance for new techologies to help lower your energy consumption?
Dear Mr. Turner:
I was just reading the news about your controversial comments regarding Quebec separatists, for which you were chastised by Stephane Dion.
All I can say is, I agree with what you say and your right to say it. Free speech is still allowed in Canada.
So why should you have to be rebuked by Dion? Isn’t he in effect giving support to the people you were criticizing?
Stephane Dion has got to be the biggest disappointment in Canadian politics today, in terms of his leadership skills and his ability to get elected.
Harper and the Conservatives couldn’t have asked for a better gift than Dion. He will never be Prime Minister because he’s got zero charisma. Not to mention substandard English language skills. He’s worse than Jean Chretien, and that’s bad. But Chretien was always able to generate a national base of support.
Meanwhile Harper is making speeches in Quebec about the “great Quebec nation” which is a smart political move to consolidate and build Conservative support there. Dion is a has-been, and the sooner the Liberals find someone fresh, new, and inspiring to all Canadians, the better.
P. B., North Vancouver
Catherine, Janice, et al love to “go back” in time to trash Liberals. Well I’ve gone back and the Conservatives sure have done their share of bigotry and have absolutely no right to criticize others – they need to clean up their own doorsteps.
….if this isn’t enough to make anyone ill, I can provide more.
By slg on 07.06.08 8:51 am
Please do! You’ve got more? This stuff has got to get out there.
For calling people “losers”? If Garth had called the seperatist vision a “losing vision”, then that’s one thing. But, calling Canadians “losers” is really hitting below the belt!
By Catherine on 07.06.08 5:20 am
Gees, would that compare with Harper calling Maratimers “defeatists”!
By jwp on 07.06.08 8:13 am
I realize the Liberal war room wants you to write something to deflect, but, calling people “losers” is not what Stephane Dion wanted as a “respectful” debate. Or does Stephane Dion consider calling somebody a “loser” respectful?
And btw, I think you meant to write “Maritimers” and not “Maratimers”. If not, please let us know who are “Maratimers”.
Please do! You’ve got more? This stuff has got to get out there.
By ML on 07.06.08 10:54 am
Here’s more: http://metaball.ca/2008/ball_Mar-08/0308_01.html
Meglomania and Harper bot in a nutshell.
Bravo Garth! I’ve never understood why the Bloc party have not been considered treasonists and unfortunately there are too many (Canadians???) willing to try and separate Canada, and they don’t live in Quebec!
Catherine: Harper, Bernier, Verner, Van Loan et al call the Bloc separatists losers all the time. They debase the Bloc and all their supporters daily in the House.
Have you expressed your outrage to Mr. Harper and his group of Quebec separatist bashers?
We can all be for a united Canada, but unity has to be based on a respect for the aspirations of fellow human beings, even those that we disagree with. Only then will we avoid saying things that we later regret.
Just like the people in an Ontario community who trampled on a flag of Quebec got big play in Quebec, even so now Garth’s comments are getting big play in Alberta.
We should know that in this day and age of telecommunications and of the Internet, that you can no longer say something that is popular in one region but offensive in another region without being called to account.
One can be a local MP and say something that is popular in your riding, but it would not be well received in other parts of Canada.
People can legitimately disagree about this carbon tax proposal, and while I would not agree with those who would separate from Canada over such a policy, the Supreme Court of Canada has now ruled that if a province like Quebec has a strong enough consensus of its members who want to separate from Canada, they can legally do so.
This has become a Charter right. We may not like it or agree with it, but it is the law in today’s Canada. We must give Albertans their “right” without insulting them if they should so choose to separate over this policy.
It is sad, but true.
Have you calculated your potential corporate income tax reduction and used the information in The Green Shift to calculate the approximate amount that your heating costs will rise? Have you investigated the kinds of technology you can incorporate in your business to take advantage of the Accelerated Capital Cost Allowance for new techologies to help lower your energy consumption?
By TS on 07.06.08 10:08 am
Wow, nice response… As if the average small business owner has the time or patience to figure out all that geek-speak…
This is the reason the Carbon Tax plan won’t fly… Way too complicated…. not to mention it encompasses a Tax on one side and a reduction in something totally unrelated to the tax on the other side… Talk about confusing…. Never heard of the KISS theory I guess.
Besides you can’t predict what heating companies will charge you when they get hit with the bill for this…. costs always trickle down to the consumer, so you are at the mercy of these companies, and they aren’t in business to lose money…
Separatists in Quebec or in Alberta are just that. S. Dion told them very clearly at the time and he needs to tell them again.
By Ted on 07.06.08 9:56 am
Huh? Why does ‘he need to tell them’ again? Since Mr. Harper became PM, the separatist movement in Quebec is at it’s lowest point in 25 years. There is no separatist movement in Alberta. So, again, why did this issue suddenly come up? We know the LP had support in Quebec simply because they kept the separatist fire fanned, is this what is going on now?
I think that IF Mr. Dion was angry at Garth, it was because of the fact that Mr. Dion was himself a strong part of the separatist movement and he sees himself in Garth’s words.
Leasa
By Judy on 07.06.08 11:08 am
Nice try at a duck n dodge Judy, but it’s just too thin.
The CPC in the HoC make their comments to the BLOC face to face regarding their lust for a separate Quebec. If you can please provide even one url where a CPC member has called Quebeckers ‘losers’ I will eat my shirt.
I’m still trying to figure out why Mr. Dion is trying to control Garth like this. He should be supporting his ‘free speech’, right?
Leasa
Werner Patels is an idiot !
You can die and I’ll be happy and all your bastard family also
A french canadian loser and proud to be so
Roger
By Roger on 07.06.08 8:00 am
Roger, you are an insult to all French Canadians & to human-kind. I too am a French Canadian & not only have you embarrassed all us French speaking Canadians with your remarks to Garth, you’ve pissed me off.
Take a hike man & grow a brain.
Have a rotten day. You deserve it.
Your comments are not out of place; if the truth hurts, then maybe there is a reason for it to hurt. Either embrace your country or, if you are that unhappy as a Canadian, or fell threatened, LIVE SOMEWHERE ELSE.
Gillian Steward, Calgary journalist and commentator, former managing editor of the Calgary Herald in today’s Toronto Star, makes essentially the same point at you Garth, but somewhat more elegantly and diplomatically – she also leaves Quebec out it, but admits the West risks being viewed as “grasping and defensive”. She also echoes Dion’s arguments about the opportunity for the West in tackling climate change: “Westerners do have an argument that needs to be taken seriously by the rest of the country. Unfortunately, the Alberta government and the Harper government have weakened their own case because they have been so lax about tackling climate change. Alberta is full of people expert in the technology of extracting, refining and transporting energy resources. The government and the petroleum industry are swimming in money. We should be leading the discussion on how best to maintain a robust economy while reducing greenhouse gas emissions and preserving the environment. Instead, British Columbia is leading the way with its own carbon tax. And Alberta’s politicians and industry leaders will end up looking defensive and grasping as pressure mounts to do something about climate change.” I personally think she nails it.
To CB Ines “In Canada separation is not a constitutional right which was proven by the Nova Scotia case.” I admit I misspoke, it is not a constitutional right in the legal sense but in the Supreme Court of Canada reference of 1998 the Court said seperation was a right as provided by our democracy.
As a lifelong B.Cer I have always supported Quebec separatism. Any chance of a private members bill to allow for a referendum for all the members of confederation (excepting Quebec) as to our wishes to exorcise the Fracanphonies
from our country.
Freedom of speech is a beautiful thing.
We never know what someone will say when they get up on that soap box. It can be inspiring or not; controversial or not; meaningful or meaningless. Regardless, the freedom to speak one’s Canadian mind is a RIGHT and a right that should be respected.
We all too often deride much of our fellow citizens who need to say what’s on their mind and the time has come when we should stop mocking them and start respecting them.
BUT, I heard a good one the other day.
While campaigning for the Jan. 23 federal election, Gilles Duceppe said that some of the best hockey players in the world come from Quebec, and with that in hand he pledged that he wants them to play in international competition for the province, not for Canada.
WTF, no need to talk about the economy, health care or the environment, no sir; what we need is a hockey team.
Ok , my bad, I guess there are people in this country who don’t deserve our respect , they certainly don’t deserve to sit in Parliament and most of all they do not deserve to earn a living with my tax dollars.
I realize the Liberal war room wants you to write something to deflect, but, calling people “losers” is not what Stephane Dion wanted as a “respectful” debate. Or does Stephane Dion consider calling somebody a “loser” respectful?
And btw, I think you meant to write “Maritimers” and not “Maratimers”. If not, please let us know who are “Maratimers”.
By Catherine on 07.06.08 11:02 am
1. I am not a Liberal so the war room has no way of contacting me.
2. I have already corrected my error in spelling one minute after my original post but you, being a bitter old bag, couldn’t wait to pounce on the error.
3. Your response is only outweighed by your stupidity. Mr. Dion has always taken the high road thus far unlike the swine that holds the office of PM at the moment.
Unfortunately, this type of comment seems to serve only to fan the flames of separatism even more.
We have to reach out with hearts that are big enough to include everybody in this great nation in which we live. If our hearts are too narrow to include the aspirations of others, then Canada will fragment, but it will take a more mature approach than the intemerate language used on this blog.
Surely we cannot take the attitude that people are not wanted in this country just because they disagree with the social engineering advocated by this carbon tax proposal.
Surely we are big enough to allow people to disagree, and to work out a compromise. That would be the Canadian way, not a “take it or leave it” approach which only fuels and fans the flames of separatism in the different regions.
While driving on Friday, I caught part of your interview with Charles Adler (in my opinion, a pseudo-populist buffoon). I can’t tell you how impressed I was with your ability to keep your cool, and with your reasoned, thoughtful responses to his attempts to ‘trap you’. When he kept repeating ‘if they keep their promise’ (re: revenue neutrality pledges within the Green Shift proposals), it was all I could do not to blow a gasket – I am in awe of how you handled things.
Mr. Dion, and all of us who support civilised politics, is lucky to have you on his team.
Albertans will be tough nuts to crack when the provincial government and all of the blowhards who have a daily pulpit to tell their lies control the debate. But I just wanted to acknowledge you and say thanks!
Karen in Edmonton
Give ‘em hell, Garth!
It’s time someone stood up and pointed out the insatible greed of the French faction.
Canada is my country too! I’m not impressed with the attempts to break the Dominion into two or three pieces. Equally unimpressive is the blatant blackmail that passes as French-English dialogue.
Keep in mind there are millions of Canadians who agree with you.
Some in Ottawa are using the phrase “asymetrical federalism”. What does this mean? It means “we have to kiss French ass — that’s where most of the votes are”.
It’s good to hear someone who doesn’t buy that B.S.
–Arnie
Cortes Island, B.C.
Have you calculated your potential corporate income tax reduction and used the information in The Green Shift to calculate the approximate amount that your heating costs will rise? Have you investigated the kinds of technology you can incorporate in your business to take advantage of the Accelerated Capital Cost Allowance for new techologies to help lower your energy consumption?
By TS on 07.06.08 10:08 am
Wow, nice response… As if the average small business owner has the time or patience to figure out all that geek-speak…
This is the reason the Carbon Tax plan won’t fly… Way too complicated…. not to mention it encompasses a Tax on one side and a reduction in something totally unrelated to the tax on the other side… Talk about confusing…. Never heard of the KISS theory I guess.
Besides you can’t predict what heating companies will charge you when they get hit with the bill for this…. costs always trickle down to the consumer, so you are at the mercy of these companies, and they aren’t in business to lose money…
By R Smith on 07.06.08 11:25 am
R. Smith, you obviously have not taken the time to actually READ The Green Shift. If you did, you would realize that a reduction in corporate, small business and personal income taxes ARE DIRECTLY linked to the imposition of a carbon tax. And, have been put in place to specifically lessen the impact of the carbon tax.
As far as the ‘geek-speak’ goes… you obviously have no experience running a business either. Every small business owner would be familiar with depreciation schedules associated with purchasing assets for their businesses and writing them down over time (i.e. capital cost allowance). They would also understand what is meant by an accelerated capital cost allowance.
And, if you spent the time to actually READ The Green Shift plan, rather than just mindlessly criticizing it, you would see the anticipated increases in cost by carbon source on pages 27 and 28 of the plan. For example, home heating oil is anticipated to rise by 8.2% in YEAR FOUR of the plan.
And, if you spent the time to actually READ the plan, rather than mindlessly criticizing it, you would see that The Green Shift plan proposes changes to the Competition Act to make it easier for the government to prosecute potential price gouging by oil companies, gas companies, etc. due to anti-competitive (i.e. price fixing) behaviour.
The Green Shift plan is designed to be revenue neutral for the Federal government, and the Auditor General, an independent third party will be required to audit the overall program to ensure it is revenue neutral.
As far as wanting a KISS program… this already is VERY simple… less tax on the things we want…income and investment, and more tax on what we don’t want – carbon emissions and pollution. Duh!
I posted a comment on the link Garth left at the end of his 7.05.08 10:00 p.m. post. Since they had quoted the Economist, I quoted from the June 19/08 issue in which the writer said the rich world governments should encourage ‘
alternative energy sources by putting a tax on carbon and stopping subsidies that favour fossil fuels, even knowing that China and India will not. Competition would give incentive to these countries to join us eventually.
These comments will probably be ‘moderated’ off the blog. We’ll see.
I didn’t bite on their Garth bait.
“It would be intellectually dishonest to take them off” – Garth Turner speaking on CTV about removing comments he has said on his blog.
Gee Garth – You didn’t seem to be worried about intellectual honesty when you conveniently deleted your false claim of receiving 450,000 hits to your site per week? (and my comments informing you of such)
Could it be your intellectual honesty only appears while the media spotlight is shining bright?
Again Garth – Thanks for the chuckle – You really do crack me up. You sir are a verbal train-wreck of laughs.
The numbers were posted in error after I misinterpreted data sent to me. I also correct typos and sentence structure in published material. My comments on the other hand were an opinion, and they should remain within they context they were made. — Garth
“There is no separatist movement in Alberta.” Leasa
By Leasa on 07.06.08 12:05 pm”
Leasa, as usual – you lie. All folks have to do is put “free Alberta” in their browser search window and it will take them to the Free Alberta web site.
Some additional material from Wikipedia:
The Alberta Independence Party (AIP) was a provincial party founded in Alberta, Canada, in 2000/1. It was dedicated to increasing the autonomy of Alberta within the Canadian confederation, in part as a response to the 2000 election, in which the Canadian Alliance, a party with strong western roots, was rejected by the electorate in the rest of the country, especially Ontario, which commands 1/3 of the seats in the Canadian Parliament.
The party’s founding convention in January, 2001, garnered much media attention when several prominent figures from the Canadian Alliance attended as observers, including MPs Myron Thompson and Darrel Stinson, and Alberta ‘senators-in-waiting’ Ted Morton and Burt Brown. At the convention, Cory Morgan, a 29-year old geological surveyor, was elected leader.
One of the party’s first challenges was to gather enough signatures to qualify as an official party in Alberta, which it failed to do. As a result, in Alberta general election, 2001, its fifteen candidates were forced to stand as independents.
The party’s candidates garnered a total of 7521 votes. Here is a list of their candidates, votes, and percentages.
1. Bradley R. Lang (Calgary Egmont) 399 (2.90%)
2. Tom Humble (Airdrie-Rocky View) 683 (4.10%)
3. Cory Morgan (Banff-Cochrane) 538 (4.00%)
4. Darren Popik (Calgary Shaw) 151 (0.60%)
5. Douglas R. Chitwood (Lacombe-Stettler) 554 (4.70%)
6. Eileen Walker (Drumheller-Chinook) 819 (8.90%)
7. Ron (Earl) Miller (Dunvegan,) 248 (2.80%)
8. Dennis Young (Grande Prairie-Smoky) 380 (4.10%)
9. Terry Dueck (Grande Prairie-Wapiti) 136 (1.60%)
10. Jon Koch (Little Bow) 885 (8.30%)
11. Charles Park (Ponoka-Rimbey) 764 (8.10%)
12. Ryan Lamarche (Red Deer-South) 203 (1.60%)
13. Christopher Sutherland (Strathmore-Brooks) 511 (4.50%)
14. Jeff Newland (Wainwright) 868 (8.00%)
15. Ben Lussier** (Wetaskiwin-Camrose) 382 (3.00%) (**Lussier began his candidacy with an AIP endorsement which was withdrawn during the course of the campaign)
The Alberta Independence Party had been the brain-child of Albertans in their 20s and 30s, and this was reflected in the youth of both its membership and executive–half of whom were below the age of 30. Differences of opinion on a variety of issues–especially whether the party should clearly back separation or merely argue greater autonomy–resulted in the break-up of the party in Dec. 2001.
Many of its members have since joined the Separation Party of Alberta. Cory Morgan has moved on to become an active member and supporter of the Alberta Alliance Party, which he views as the only true “right-of-center” alternative for Albertans.
I think it would be helpful here to start calling a spade a spade.
The “West” is not in favour of separation, or against a National Energy Policy as long as ‘The West’ includes the West Coast, Manitoba, and rural farmers in Saskatchewan & Alberta.
The ‘West’ is a eupemism for American Oil Companies based in downtown Calgary.
I think it would be more constructive from now on to say ‘The Americans’ want Alberta (or at least the oil patch) to separate, or that
‘The Americans’ do not want a National Energy Policy.
Alberta is directly north of a lot of Big Red States, and it is this incursion that we are really dealing with here.
As for separatists in general, anytime Canada isn’t good enough for you, you are welcome to leave, with whatever you can carry on your backs.
Border’s to the south, don’t let the door hit you in the ass.
Garth,
REAL Environmentalists go “Cruising around Lake Erie” on their pedal bikes – not motorbikes.
But did you like my new bike? — Garth
Actually I put it in the same category as the Stockwell Day’s seadoo photo op. But are sleazy to say the least.
Riding is a hobby. Kinda like you pulling wings off moths. And do I call you sleazy? — Garth
Re: my post of 3:35 of today
Sorry. I went to “Garth Turner–joke of the day” at
http://www.albertapundit.com/?p=1904
and then saw another link to “The Economist: Dion is wimpish”, and posted there. They did put it on their site.
When I went in again, I posted a reply to their rude remarks on
http://www.albertapundit.com/?p=1903
Talk about vitriole! And I loved Albertans when I went to school in Calgary. They are not all like this!
The Green Shift plan is designed to be revenue neutral for the Federal government, and the Auditor General, an independent third party will be required to audit the overall program to ensure it is revenue neutral.
By TS on 07.06.08 3:34 pm
“Revenue Neutral for the Federal Government” isn’t the same as “Expense Neutral for the average Canadian”.
These are political “weasel words”. Nice try though.
It is still going to cost us more for goods and services as big business is hit by this Carbon Tax.
Please explain why I should get more money back simply because I earn more money. According to the handy dandy greenshift calculator I should get $1025 back, while someone who makes $30,000 less than me gets $675 back? Do they spend less on heating their home or driving their car than I do? Nope. Do they buy less food, that farmers produce, than me? Nope.
As far as calling people “mindless” and your “Duh” comment go, those comments were unnecessary. These are questions that will have to be answered, from average Canadians.
Here is something that I’m sure will amuse you and your blog participants. Enjoy.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v714/stevekog/?action=view¤t=SDCCST.jpg
Mr. Turner, I’ve read your blog re separatists: I know exactly what you mean and I have the same opinion. I have a great affinity for the people of Quebec, too, it has a wonderful and distinct culture and must be allowed to grow and flourish. Also, Quebec should get all that it duly deserves just as any of the other provinces. However, when it comes to the antics of the Bloc Quebecois and their separatist supporters, I flinch. They want their cake and eat it too; they want all the advantages of the things that Canada as a whole has to offer all of us, and to avoid sharing the riches of Quebec with the rest of Canada. What’s worst of all is the fact that they are permitted to sit there in the House of Commons and still talk of separation!
Paul
Thanks for bringing this piece forward, Molly.
In the article, I don’t know if you caught who Finley chose as the 4th place finisher to replace Mark Warner (a fellow who probably would have finished 2nd): Pastor Don Meredith. In an urban riding that has the largest gay population in the country, the Conservatives choose to run a social conservative who is against same-sex marriage, pre-marital sex, common law marriage, and favours an age of consent of 18. The man didn’t stand a chance in Toronto, and Finley knew it. This same pattern was repeated when the person chosen to fight Garth for his Halton riding was a Charles McVety protégé, and when Rondo Thomas was chosen to run in Ajax last election. As the article so plainly lays out, the candidate for a riding does not get his nomination papers without Finley’s approval; local riding association preference is an afterthought.
Finley knows that the Conservatives stand little chance of winning in urban Toronto ridings. He also needs to appease the social conservative religious elements and show them that he cares so that they continue to support the party and don’t drift to what would likely be a natural and more earnest home for them, the Family Coalition Party. But it’s all tactical, all the time. Putting their candidates in ridings where they can’t win, paying lip service to co-opt the religious vote without actually giving them a seat, because winning would reinforce the image of the Conservatives that so many Canadians are wary of.
Just like in the article where the candidate is secondary, a useful tool to be discarded at will, and in other situations such as the penchant to use human props as drapery for announcements, we see the true nature of Finley: a political sociopath.
Note:
One thing Mike Harris wasn't was a religious Conservative; he barely batted an eye when spousal benefits were deemed necessary by the courts for Common Law same-sex partnerships, and implemented them forthwith, and must be given credit for that. It will be quite interesting to see if Guy Giorno butts heads with Finley over the above practice.
By TS on 07.06.08 3:44 pm
I’d hardly call that a ‘movement’. When they get 500K++ members then I’ll consider calling it a ‘movement’.
Leasa
Hi Garth just wanted to let you know I am behind you all the way by calling Quebec Separatists what they are !!!!!!!! I think you were rather soft on them however.Loyal Canadians in Quebec be they French or English speaking or both won`t be offended by what you said just the separatists and what they think is just to bad boo hoo.For the leaders of the other federal parties, including Dion, not to stand behind you is embarrassing for them they should also be treating separatists with complete disdain and say it ! Treating separatists with kid gloves is a mistake and it should be pointed out to all Canadians time and time again that these separatists want to destroy one of the greatest countries ever known to mankind.So Garth keep on saying what you want about that separatist vermin because Canadians are listing!Thanks Matthew
Thank you for saying it the way it is. More politicians should have the fortitude to say what they really think.
Quebec costs the rest of Canada way to much money.
The cost to be a bilingual Country is way to much.
I have just finished reading your book A Greater Fool . And really enjoyed the book.
Regards
David
Just a reminder to Albertans.If you are wondering why the majority of Canadians refer to your province as selfish,arrogant rednecks,i refer you to readWilliam Patels column a writer in Alberta who refered to Ontario as a nothing province and Toronto as a cesspool.This appears to be the opinion of most Alberta pundits including the Stelmack govt who suggested Dion should take his environmental programme and in so many words leave the province.Amazing how a few bucks will bring out the selfish arrogrance and true character in so many people.I lived in Alberta over 50 years ago when Alberta was a have not province,people were friendly and decent and respected the rest of Canada.I suspect some of the present attitude is a result of our present Prime MInister a few years ago who wanted to build a wall around Alberta.
Albertans seem to have forgotten that the oil industry was developed by foreign dollars with help by the Canadian Federal govt,all canadians taxpayers money.
Thank god i left Alberta before the neocon rednecks took over.
Dale
Kelowna
I was so pleased to see someone with the stones to stand up for Canada against the separate elements in P.Q. All we have seen so far are political parties get down on their knees to these elements attempting to win their favour chipping away at what it means to be Canada. We give them money, more influence and still the whining continues. Enough is enough. These policies represent nothing but blackmail. You are such a breath of fresh air. Don’t let anyone ever stop you from defending Canada. This country needs a champion. We are doing the same thing on the native front giving away our country and accomplishng nothing. It is a disgrace however. Thanks Again.
Never mind. The truth hurts and it’s not you that’s hurting.
Lorne Gunther calls you ‘obnoxious’ and perhaps you should be considered ‘unCanadian’ with your insulting gaff against Alberta. Withdraw, Garth .. withdraw …!!!
The obnoxious Garth Turner
Lorne Gunter, National Post – Monday, July 07, 2008
There’s an old adage: When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. I’m pretty sure Liberal MP Garth Turner has never heard it before. On Thursday on his blog, Mr. Turner, long a loose canon, insisted those in the West who oppose his party’s new “Green Shift” carbon tax scheme are un-Canadian, even though the plan proposes to slam Westerner energy producers about four times harder than central and eastern Canadian energy consumers.
This is an old Liberal trick: Equate the national interest with Liberal policies, then question the loyalty of anyone who disagrees.
This tactic is frequently compounded in the West which — because it seldom returns Liberal MPs — is frequently portrayed by Liberal prime ministers and organizers as the bad boy of Confederation.
More at:
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=d5650500-a9c8-48cb-b044-873b0b40ccd4
Wow. Some of you people don’t get it. Separatists are not losers, they just don’t necessarily have the same point of view as you do. THEY ARE STILL CANADIANS. It’s especially disenchanting to hear an “honorable” Member of Parliament so casually dismiss other Canadians as losers.
Would you rather they took up arms against Canada to get their point across?
I grew up in an Alberta where I cannot remember a time that the Liberals ever did anything to help us, and more often hurt us. All the policies seem designed to garner favor with easterners who don’t share our values. The Liberals will sell out a segment of the population to win power. Rather than address the concerns of those who identify with separatists, Garth mocks them.
As a result of this, I will NEVER vote for a Liberal.
Although there are not many true “separatists” in Alberta, those feelings are there. You don’t hear about it, because when you beat up on us enough, we can simply move elsewhere. Albertans are not as geographically tied down by their culture as Quebecers.
Back when I graduated university, I had six really good friends, all professionals. Myself and one other still live in Canada. Five out of the seven have left Canada. I’m probably the next on the list to leave.
I’m sure Garth will rejoice when we are all gone, because our values do not parrot Liberal party values.
And then you will raise taxes on those remaining. Combined personal income for the seven of us is well over one million a year, not including spouses, and somebody will need to pay for Dion’s social spending…
On your way out, please provide one example where I “mocked” an Albertan concern. Thanks. Bon voyage to a better country. Good luck finding one. — Garth