Recently a lot of people have been asking me if I’m going to apologize. Some big influential columnist guy did it in Monday’s National Post. Stephane Dion did it. Radio titan Charles Adler did it. John Baird did it. Quebec ADQ leader Mario Dumont and NDP leader Jack Layton did it. Endless blogging Tories demanded it. Hundreds of folks I have never met from Quebec did it. People who threatened me on this blog did it. And now it’s time.
I apologize.
More specifically, I would like to express my regret, and say that I am sorry,
• that I made Dion’s trip to Alberta more difficult. He didn’t need it. He’s a good man
• that we now live in a country where you cannot call separatists, losers
• that I learned the French words for, well, never mind
• that a bunch of people in the West can’t get over a 28-year-old policy and a dead prime minister. What a burden to carry around
• that I had impure thoughts about Ezra Levant. And Lorne Gunter. Dave Rutherford. John Gormley. The Flames.
• that we burned electrons and felled trees to discuss this, rather than the economy or the environment
• that my words were as intemperate as they were heartfelt. I must watch that
• that we can’t discuss climate change any more without talking about money
• that so many people say they hate where I live
• that the country’s divided
• that I made it moreso. And,
• that a member of Parliament, speaking out, is news.
For writing and acting in defence of my country, for opposing those who put self interests before Canada, for the decisions I have made, and the consequences they have yielded, I regret nothing. Nor am I done.
256 comments ↓
Way to not back down Garth. I think most non-Quebecers would agree with your original sentiments. It is a shame when you can’t call out the people who want to dismantle your country without bringing up this sort of controversy.
Apology accepted!!! Go,Leafs, Go.!!!
Good for your Mr. Turner. Keep speaking out for those of us who are tired of pandering politicians.
Nice going, Garth, I would not have apologized, period, tongue in cheek or not. I am one of these western seperatist losers you speak of, and will defend to the death your right to call me that. Growing up in Alberta now living in Saskatchewan, I will never be convinced that the Green Shaft is anything more than another attempt to raid the treasury of Western Canada to buy Eastern votes. Keep calling it as you see it, my man!!
Still waiting for Flaherty to apologize to Ontarians.
I am sorry,
• that the country’s divided
on 07.07.08 @ 9:54 pm
I`m sorry
-that as a federal politician you ignore the concerns of a large portion of the population of the west.
- that you tried to defend a dysfunctional system of governance by calling those that seek to improve Canada losers.
-I`m sorry you don`t have the courage to admit the federal government has failed.
-mostly I`m sorry the west didn`t separate 10 years ago, Canada would be a much better place without a ruptured elected federal government bring the whole country to its knees and beyond.
Yes We Can
I admire your conviction and dedication, Garth.
To Tony (07.07.08 10:10 pm)
I honestly don’t think anyone is out to raid the “Western” treasury. This sounds like more FUD to me. Rather the Green Shift is out to restore the raided treasuries of average Canadians, from coast to coast.
The tar sands and other Western oil patches aren’t going anywhere. If it was profitable at $80/bbl, it will be profitable with or without the Green Shift. What really matters is that Canadians pay less income tax.
Remember, PM Harper’s plan puts a value on carbon as well and these costs are expected to be passed on to Canadians and their families. The only difference is that Harper has made no accommodations for families to meet this costs.
I call it as I see it.
If this was a true *NATION* then gas prices should be at 50% of current rates!
How much federal money has gone to Alberta? LOTS!
The Quebec seperatists are losers. How much federal money has gone there??! LOTS!
Maybe it’s must time to end this “nation” which is really just a money grab of Ontario.
(And you are wrong about housing, Garth!)
“More specifically, I would like to express my regret, and say that I am sorry…………..that we now live in a country where you cannot call separatists, losers.”
============================
THAT was an apolgy? Get over yourself, Turner. You’ll have to do it anyway when the voters in Halton make sure that happens in the next election by kicking your Liberal ass out to the curb.
Get over that 28 year old policy? That Liberal “policy” ruined lives, Turner. Not that you care; they’re just “losers” to arrogant, eltitist Liberals like you.
Mr. Turner, I would not assume to know what’s going in your riding any more than you know what’s going on in my Calgary riding.BUT….if Dions carbon tax is ever implemented, Alberta and B.C. are as good as gone. You have no idea how deeply this sentiment is held. It is the liberal party that keeps playing one part of the country against another.So please ,please vote for Dion!
Although I believe that calling out seperatists and those who would put greed and petty regionalism above the good of the country is not wrong you could have chosen you words a little more carefully Mr. Turner.
I happen to agree with your sentiment but we all know in the current “gotcha” atmosphere of today’s political “discourse” your message would be overshadowed by expressing yourself so colourfully.
After all, during the last election “beer and popcorn” became a three day story.
I would love it if things were different in our political conversation in this country but it is not and those who practice politics in this country are going to have to take that into account when speaking and writing.
Great apology by the way. I would not have said it any differently myself.
Garth, you really just don’t seem to get it, do you?
You and your blog just can’t seem to keep yourself out of trouble.
So, despite the fact that you have yet to produce proof of any kind of lingering and credible separatist threat in Alberta, you still seem to keep trying to go back to that well.
And now the best you have is this? A basic variation on “I’m sorry… you’re such a jerk”?
But you know what? Maybe this is actually a good thing. Just keep writing before you actually stop to think.
It already got you kicked out of the governent caucus. Where will you go if you get yourself kicked out of the Liberal caucus?
Not back to the government, I think we can assure ourselves of that.
Where next? The NDP? Maybe the Greens?
You could always rename your blog “Garth Turner: Loudmouth for Hire”.
Well, why not? Your excellent blog name, “The Nexus of Assholery” is sadly taken. Say, do you cowboys ever lighten up? — Garth
eltitist Liberals like you.
LOL LOL LOL
Garth is a Liberal elitist now!? LOL
It was a long haul Garth, but ya made it! Good Job Buddy! LOL
Garth, in this latest post, you sounded so much like a former colleague of mine who always had a holier-than-thou attitude. He was always adamant that he was right, refused to comply with superiors’ directions, was disciplined, lost pay, appealled, lost, still preached his cause, made a fool of himself.
Of course there are causes worth fighting for. But this latest episode of yours is just plain silly. Stop sounding like the preacher!
Instead of criticizing the potential separatists, let’s be more welcoming of them into our Canadian community. It appeared to me that last Tuesday, July 1, was one of the greatest Canada Days ever. Let’s not spoil that.
As a New Brunswicker, I have never visited Alberta, but I have made many trips to Quebec, love going there even though my French is limited. I have always felt welcomed and communication is not a great problem. Give and take.
I love this country–all of it. I would never want to see it divided. However, our strategies differ. I welcome ALL peoples and ideas. It’s fun to visit different areas and see different cultures. Let’s work on building Canada rather than tearing it apart.
And if you recognize that you made Dion’s job more difficult, please truly apologize.
Mr. Turner, I would not assume to know what’s going in your riding any more than you know what’s going on in my Calgary riding.BUT….if Dions carbon tax is ever implemented, Alberta and B.C. are as good as gone. You have no idea how deeply this sentiment is held. It is the liberal party that keeps playing one part of the country against another.So please ,please vote for Dion!
By r kathrens on 07.07.08 10:38 pm
You can keep your opinion. I like mine just fine thanks.
BC ain’t goin ANYWHERE little lady. Don’t attempt to lump the ‘west’ into one conglomerate. British Columbia is as different from Alberta, as the Yukon is to Newfoundland.
Canada is my home, and it’s provinces constitute a whole, one that is diverse and vast. It is those DIFFERENCES that make this country what it is today. The ability to work together for a common goal, a common GOOD. No separatist, or self loving fool will ever take away my Canada.
All those who think that the majority is with you in getting out of Canada. I would sincerely beg to differ. We all need each other.
BUT….if Dions carbon tax is ever implemented, Alberta and B.C. are as good as gone.
BY R KATHRENS ON 07.07.08 10:38 PM
And you are speaking for whom exactly? You must be one of those losers from Alberta Garth was referring to. I live in BC, I don’t vote Liberal or Conservative but I think Dion is doing a good job of explaining the tax and if he can get elected I would welcome the tax.
‘BC and Alberta are as good as gone.’ What an ass.
Lighten up???
lol Garth, wasn`t it you that went off on a wild name calling rage simply because a large portion of the west feels our federal government sux?
Yes We Can
We live in a democracy; you and I, here in Canada. We are free to feel however we want to feel. We are free to express how we feel, what we believe, and what we are taught to believe. There are special interest groups out there, with their own websites, professional and slick with clever graphics, audio, video and a “contact us” button. We have political parties, politicians, candidates, advisors, front men, backroom boys, riding associations, strategists, publicists, talking points, press releases, sound bites, pollsters, columnists, and reporters. All with their eye on the prize. The voter.
Some folks look at politics as a game, plotting a strategy to win for winning sake. Some folks look at politics as their own personal soapbox. Promoting the cause, because in their heart it is the right thing to do.
We live a utopic life here on planet Canada. Most political “stuff” comes and goes with nary a notice. Truth is that the average Canadian thinks about politics about 12 minutes a month. Reality is that the stats and minutia is left to the political junkies, much like the sports junkies who always know, who’s on first.
Every now and then, we stumble across a Gordie Howe, a Mike Bossy, a Wayne Gretzky, a Willie Mayes, a Tiger Woods, a Stompin Tom, a Gordon Lightfoot, a Leonard Cohen, and well yes, a Garth Turner. A Natural, as it were.
Which brings me to my point.
As in sport, as in art, as in politics, as in life, we are blessed every now and then with someone so pure in thought, word and deed that they carry us to the next level. If there is anyone who knows and understands Garth Turner, it’s me. I work with the guy, every day. The issues come and go. The stories come and go. But the one thing that never changes, is Garth. His love of country, his commitment to truth, his honest, heartfelt, open message.
Garth Turner is the voice of the people. Garth Turner loves his country.
And loves means never having to say you’re sorry.
Rock on, Garth.
LOL well said Garth!Pretty sad bunch these harper tories,the appolgies they owe the Canadian taxpayers for the lies ,corruption and the use of tax dollars for their quest for power seems to not even cross their arrogant minds.
Great pic! Well said! And, irony is lost on many apparently.
Tories under the Atkins Diet man Harper only care about ALBERTA and the OIL INDUSTRY!
That’s all.
I live in BC and have gotten over the 28year old policies and the single finger salute in Salmon Arm.
I believed in the Liberal fiscal policies of your party and have spoken many times of the Canadian values and national identity that has been supported by your party. In BC the felled trees you speak of are Bug Kill and your current Green Shift will do nothing more than shift more people in BC out of work. That’s on top of the 12,000 who have already lost their jobs in the forest industry. What helps divide Canada is an ignorance of what is happening in other parts of the country.
I wish your party well in the next election you will need it.
Garth
Apology accepted. Gotta watch the emotional side sometimes – I know, I am always acting from the heart which makes me a lousy politician.
And for the photo, see my previous posting.
Watch out for the wolf you are feeding…
Ya know Garth, maybe you should come west and find out why the West feels left out. Maybe it’s the lack of western hockey games on CBC. Maybe it’s the lack of national icon’s from Western Canada. Maybe it’s the shrill volume of too many people in the East that think everyone in Alberta is a backwater redneck. Tell you what Garth, why don’t you come to my ‘hood in Calgary & you can decide between the dozen different ethnic cuisines, by local produce/organics & discover that “Calgary” has a little more than cowboy hats & steak (and nothing wrong with a Stetson & a good steak).
Garth, in my opinion, you’re the narrow minded redneck. Wasn’t it you that called me “Cowboy” ? While I do own a cowboy hat & boots and I like stampede, I also use Wind power, eat organic veggies & have no problem with gay marriage. In fact, I endorse it.
You see dude, I suspect you use the whole “western separatist loser” thing to subtly imply that we’re all that way. Sorta the same way Conservatives say “Gay marriage ruins the family”. They say that because they can’t say “I hate fa*gs” because that’s not OK.
Tell ya what Garth, why not hope on that Honda and rise west for a month. Live and feel the people out here & meet and greet with them & listen to their grievances. And have the nuts to go sit down at Shaw Court in front of Dave Rutherford and listen to callers instead of hanging up.
The problem isn’t Alberta, the problem is Easterners that can’t get beyond their stereotype of who we are out here
Irvine
Calgary, via Waterloo, Ontario
You know what? There are so many problems facing this country and this planet that we, as individuals, cannot begin to solve that it seems to be navel-gazing to keep on with this petty disrespectful dialogue.
I read some comments which followed an article in the Globe and Mail which really made me discouraged that we could ever get together to even improve the lot of our world let alone fight global warming. Then I read some comments following an article in the Toronto Star that made me feel encouraged. All in all, though, what really became clear to me is that we all have an enormous task to, as a country, protect our futures and all that we hold dear.
Freedom comes hand in hand with responsibilty and to survive, we all have to take responsibility for each other for we cannot survive alone, by ourselves.
It’s frightening to think that we may not make it because we simply have not learned to get along and to care about each other. No matter what kind of report card I came home with as a kid, my Dad would always say to me, “well, that’s fine child, but the most important thing in life is to learn how to get along with people”. And he took me around to see how many people were living and tried to explain their different circumstances. I think he was right. We have to help each other.
Whether we are from the East or the West, we will be happier if we can all contribute to a stronger country and a
healthier planet. We all need to learn as much as we can and apply what we learn the best we can. Then we can vote in the next election with a clear conscience. Trouble is, I just can’t learn enough, fast enough. I do appreciate those on this blog who take the time to contribute facts in the most helpful way they can.
I hope we can all sleep tonight.
It is almost a mystery why even the lowest of us and the mightiest can sound so noble and great when they apologize. Perhaps, such sorry is even heavenly.
After all, wherever they may reside, Albertans and Quebecers are always Canadians.
Vive Le Canada!
Good for you Garth, My family comes from “La Belle Province” and that beautiful province is not made up of self serving separatist, however the small number left make aloud ruckus. It is all of our duties to stand up for what we believe in, Canada!
BUT….if Dions carbon tax is ever implemented, Alberta and B.C. are as good as gone.
BY R KATHRENS ON 07.07.08 10:38 PM
Can’t wait to hear your explanation of that statement. It better be good or you could consider yourself good as gone.
For writing and acting in defence of my country, for opposing those who put self interests before Canada, for the decisions I have made, and the consequences they have yielded, I regret nothing. Nor am I done…
That’s ok sir, it is your right to defend your positions as it is mine to continue to advocate for a distinct and sovereign Québec. No matter what people here think, that’s irrelevant. As in any democracy, if people from Québec decide to part ways, it will be in the best interest of quebecers and canadians. This is suppose to be a CONFEDERATION but it is not. Is has never been and until my fellow neighbors canadians (where lots are friends to me and that I respect deeply) understand that for a majority of “québécois de souche” “la fleur de lys” is the nation to wich we can relate, and that the canadian flag, as respectfull has we have to be to it, is just not our identity.
What is sad to me is the some 350 posts from the previous article where hatred just boils from some fellow quebecers and from lots of canadians. We might have divergent opinions BUT WHAT MAKES US ALL DIFFERENT IS THE FACT THAT WE CAN STILL, TO THIS DAY, DEFEND THEM AWAY FROM VIOLENCE. It should make every canadian proud to be canadian and it makes me proud to see that our independentist leaders, René Lévesque in first place, have always rejected the way of violence or hatred.
By r kathrens on 07.07.08 10:38 pm -end quote
Alberta ain’t going anywhere but we may kick your sorry butt across the Montana border.
_______________________________________
because a large portion of the west feels our federal government sux?
Yes We Can
By buddy, spare a dime? on 07.07.08 10:59 pm -end quote
Large portion??? Horsepucks.
British Columbia is as different from Alberta, as the Yukon is to Newfoundland.
SJ on 07.07.08 10:57 pm
Other than taxes and Vancouver, Alberta and BC are twins. You should get out more.
Thanks for the apology Garth for exposing Canada for what it is today.
- A group of provinces devoted to keeping what is theirs least someone else steal it
- A country that treats their wilderness as an open sewer and garbage dump because most people don’t have to look at it until the time comes they find they need the water and other resources once theirs are gone
- A country of people who have strong convictions that we need to something about pollution, the environment, poor people and helping others around the world just as long as it doesn’t come out of their pockets or cramp their lifestyle
- Canadians have always been slightly conservative in their thinking especially as we grow older yet the vast majority can’t understand the concept of leaving more money in your pocket and the freedom to decide what you want to spend it on while raising the price of pollution for thse who CHOOSE to continue their present lfestyle. Seems to me that freedom of choice was the number one rule in my old PC handbook.
If you compare Canada to our closest relative, Russia, we have similar climates, vast distances with little population, similar economies and numerous regional differences. We have all heard how tough life is in Russia especially since they own well over half their companies themselves and have to deal with foreigners trying to take over their companies while here in Canada we own what, our banks? Nothing else left to worry about being taken over. Russia is only barely in the top third in the world for royalties on oil and other natural resources while Canada is…LAST, do we even collect royalties on all those logs we ship out these days? Of course we always hear about the unrest btween Moskow and its provences and isn’t it terrible how national interests always triumph over local? In this country we are lucky we have a government dedicated to weakening the federal hold so the provences can give away their wealth without interference.
I used to be proud to be a Canadian, are you?
Garth thanks for bringing this to our attention.
Garth,
Your blog is a bold experiment in direct access to MP’s. It gets us truly back to the grassroots, doesn’t?
When you represent over 100,000 people, why wouldn’t you want to use social technology (“web 2.0″ in my world) to stay in touch?
I find Rightist attacks against the blog really quite amusing. How the same people who attack you happily support the likes of Anders is truly, well, you have to laugh about it.
I wouldn’t waste any anger on those people.
Here’s hoping more MP’s in Canada adopt this method of interaction.
Thanks for doing what you’re doing!
Nice apology. Quite frankly, if I were French Canadian I would be a separatist too. There is no way that an anglophone living in the center of the universe (GTA), posessing all the levers of power and control can even begin to understand what a French Canadian or even an Albertan feels.
Free people are never losers. Those that are willing to give up their freedom for the false promise of security are the real losers.
Turner,
You are so full of yourself it is unreal. I am gald that you speak your mind so people can see just how insane it is that you could ever be elected. Your lame excuse of an apology just shows how you really feel about the West. You call these people seperatists but it is your party causing this division in the country by calling one part of the country selfish. We would be more than happy to help the East out but to be then called selfish for doing it yet again. You are so full of yourself that you don’t see it. Bad policy promotes this, not people who disagree with you because you don’t care to understand them. I would support this policy if it actually had something to do with the environment but it doesn’t. No wonder Dion has an issue with you. He asked for debate about this and when Harper oversimplified this by saying it would screw everyone, there was a time when the Liberals had a leg up. That was until you made this a yelling match between school yard loudmouths. But I forgot you are the glue holding this country together you pompous idiot. As a person looking to make an informed decision about what party to promote, I am ashamed that there are politicians who know far less than the general public about what it really means to be Canadian. Keep spouting off, it makes us all so very proud.
Off Topic.
Green Shift Inc. is filing against the Liberal Party. Any comment? Inquiring minds want to know.:^)
Thanks.
To Esther Shaye (07.07.08 11:00 pm)
Well said.
Not that I wanted you to apologize (I am a right leaning guy for the record) to even begin with………..you said what you said, and as long as your were honest, who gives a $hit………….but that didn’t sound like much of an apology. It was very backhanded. lol.
Yes We Can
By buddy, spare a dime? on 07.07.08 10:59 pm
Yes you should Buddy and if I could spare a dime for a more moronic cause than yours….
As a home grown Albertan I will admit to knowing about a lunatic fringe that is so far to the right that they deny the holocaust and want Alberta to be it’s own country but these traitors to Canada are just a small minority with BIG MOUTHS.
Even though they are an embarrassment to themselves and to Alberta and Canada I respect their right to spew their CRAP all over this Blog but make no mistake they are a small minority on the outside looking in and they have NO CHANCE of forming government or carrying out their delusional scheme to break up our country. Understand this trolls
Oh Canada we stand on guard for thee and we mean it.
Thanks Garth for giving me this opportunity to stand up for Canada and Alberta .
[...] posted an “apology” for his recent comments, in which he insulted both decent and upstanding Quebeckers and [...]
It is interesting that Rutherford, Bill O’Reilly and plenty of others are given the right to say pretty much whatever they want to, yet when a Cdn. politician dares to speak his mind, he is immediately labeled a ‘bigot’, ‘racist’ or whatever (junk words for junk people).
What the hell are politicians elected for in the first place? It wasn’t to sit on their collective butts, have their perks and pay, to ‘let the good times roll’, as the song lyrics say.
An MP is SUPPOSED to garner as many opinions, points of view, listen to the electorate who pay the wages / bills so he can end up DOING something for his / her riding — in other words, do their job.
Unless this is Amerika, of course. They throw tennis balls at one another, yell and scream a lot (much like ours) and not much more.
So thanks for the deliberate foot-in-mouth apology, Garth; it will go a long way toward getting you and the Libs. re-elected, this time with a majority.
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Bankruptcies are gathering momentum; meanwhile, at the G8 summit, there was fabulous grub — let us eat cake!
http://tinyurl.com/5uuhd3
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Science: To complicate matters somewhat, this planet is starting to belch, from the inside out.
http://tinyurl.com/55r4l4
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Ron p, 10:25 pm
Agree wholeheartedly, Ron; e.g., El Al has never had a plane hijacked, as there are always armed guards on board posing as passengers.
Their military is top notch, but who pays for their training? Mostly, it’s the US. I hold the view that the military follow their chiefs, who follow the politicians.
Nothing to do with ordinary soldiers — everything to do with the politicians.
Who are these traitorous wingnuts who say BC is going to separate from Canada? Where are they? Stockwell Day country?
Not in my neighbourhoods, that’s for sure! We’re %100 Canadian around these parts.
Some separatist gets up in my face or on my doorstep is in for a big surprise: the smackdown his mommy was too timid to give him even when she knew he deserved it. Poor wee thing.
Perhaps, as Dion says, a little more respectful. Such as, saying separatists who want to break up Canada are simply misguided, uninformed and in need of a cohesive plan that panders to their individuality while recognizing them as a big part of a bigger picture that is Canada would suffice. Who knows, maybe Stephen Harper’s next act will be to proclaim Quebeckers as a nation! Watch for it on FOX TV.
Keep on keeping on, Garth! Canada would be a sadder place without you.
We all know how sad things have gotten with the Canada’s New Worst Government Evah!
A beacon of hope you are, MP Turner. I’m sure Dion supports you and prefers a higher level of discourse. Fair enough. It’s hard to deal with the Con Party-paid trolls on here but what can you do if you want an open blog?
Best thing to happen to Canadians and MP’s in ages, IMHO, and a wrench in the gears of a top-down dictatorial, father-knows-best government that Harper wants to run. If Harper gets his way, his people will vote for hamsters who run round and round until Harper forgets to feed them.
Take a page out of the Reform book(s) and remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Keep on keeping on.
For a minute there I was worried you were actually going to apologize! I’m an Ontarian currently living in Alberta and can’t reasonably say I’ve felt the separatist vibe that you speak of, but for someone that follows politics closely, I see a disproportionate number of Albertans/Quebecers preaching against the blight of the land that is our federation (50+ bloc MPs, several Con MPs, including the PM). That said, I see no need for a federal MP to apologize to separatists or regionalists. At any given point in time, each of the provinces has benefited from equalization and products and services neighbouring or distant provinces have provided. To think that NF&L, Quebec, the “west” or anyone could indefinitely support their own economies and social programs is beyond ludicrous. If Ontario, with 1/3 of the country’s population and at least a plurality of the nation’s economy can’t do it, no province can. We’ve evolved as ONE country and to see ourselves prosper we need to stay as ONE country. One side of the country produces food, the other side produces the trucks required to ship it. It’s a symbiotic relationship and it takes a strong near-sightedness to think that trends favouring oil (as for the west) or disturbing grip to 400 year old national roots (as for Quebec) can keep a ‘country’ afloat. For the separatists who think that tying onto the sinking ship that is the USA is a valid argument for a potential move to separation, think again.
Anyway, Garth is right to criticize his opponents and he should be given some credit for firing up some national (not just regional) pride in light of the national Green Shift that, despite some flaws, is a Canadian move to make us a world leader again.
And for the people who want to tear us apart — take a trip around this country and see how similar we really are. I think you’ll be singing a different tune.
Garth;
The bike ride ’round Lake Erie seems to have done some good. Sometimes we need to apologize for intemperate words said in passionate defense of a cause.
Yeats said it well:
Remorse For Intemperate Speech
William Butler Yeats
I RANTED to the knave and fool,
But outgrew that school,
Would transform the part,
Fit audience found, but cannot rule
My fanatic heart.
I sought my betters: though in each
Fine manners, liberal speech,
Turn hatred into sport,
Nothing said or done can reach
My fanatic heart,
Out of Ireland have we come.
Great hatred, little room,
Maimed us at the start.
I carry from my mother’s womb
A fanatic heart.
I’m glad you did apologize but find it refreshing that you speak from your “fanatic” heart.
Now back to The Green Shift, shall we?
“The future belongs to those who understand that doing more with less is compassionate, prosperous, and enduring, and thus more intelligent, even competitive.”
—Paul Hawken
Surely this is a state that all Canadians from the West, the North, Central and the East can aspire to. This is what I believe Dion is asking us to aspire to: a compassionate, prosperous and enduring country that is more intelligent and competitive.
For those who don’t know Paul Hawken, here’s what Wikipedia has to say:
Paul Hawken (born 8 February 1946) is an environmentalist, entrepreneur, journalist, and best-selling author. At age 20, he moved to Boston to study macrobiotic philosophy under Michio and Aveline Kushi.
He then dedicated his life to changing the relationship between business and the environment, and between human and living systems in order to create a more just and sustainable world. His work includes starting and running ecological businesses, writing and teaching about the impact of commerce upon the environment, and consulting with governments and corporations on economic development, industrial ecology, and environmental policy.
His principle of comprehensive outcome (see below) was influential in full cost accounting and the eventual emergence of ecological footprint and triple bottom line standards for sustainability.
He is author and co-author of dozens of articles, op-eds, papers, as well as six books including The Next Economy (Ballantine 1983) wherein he coined the term the “restoration economy”, Growing a Business (Simon and Schuster 1987), and The Ecology of Commerce (HarperCollins 1993).
The Ecology of Commerce was voted in 1998 as the #1 college text on business and the environment by professors in 67 business schools. In this book, he introduced the comprehensive outcome principle – taking account of the entire result of an event or process to all parties, not just the immediate participants. When considering a decision to build a factory, for instance, it would include the natural resource depletion, the pollution, and any side effects of the production, distribution and consumption processes.
Hawken contrasted this to a merely culminative outcome which is simply the obvious result visible to the buyer at the moment and point of purchase, and the profit made thereby by the supplier.
His book, Natural Capitalism: Creating the Next Industrial Revolution (Little, Brown. September 1999) with Amory Lovins and Hunter Lovins, has been referred to by several heads of state including President Bill Clinton who calls it one of the five most important books in the world today. It popularized the now-standard idea of natural capital and direct accounting for nature’s services. The book includes a price of Earth analysis.
His latest book is entitled Blessed Unrest, How the Largest Movement in the World Came into Being and Why No One Saw It Coming was published by Viking Press (New York) May, 2007. In it Hawken describes a convergence of the environmental and social justice movements as the largest social movement in history, and the fastest growing movement, comprising over 1 million organizations in every country in the world. He also talks extensively about his new project Wiser Earth, which is a wiki-based social network surrounding organizations in the environmental and social justice fields.
His books have been published in over 50 countries in 27 languages and have sold over 2 million copies.
Growing a Business became the basis of a 17-part PBS series, which Mr. Hawken hosted and produced. The program, which explored the challenges and pitfalls of starting and operating socially responsive companies, was shown on television in 115 countries and watched by over 100 million people.
His piece on Seattle and the WTO entitled N30 was published on over 100 websites and by 13 magazines.
that so many people say they hate where I live
I grew up in Nassagaweya Township, and I cannot express how much I miss it every day. Circa 1970s and early ’80s, it was the most beautiful place on earth.
Let them hate it.
Oh, and apology accepted.
I don’t recall EVER suggesting you should apologize for ANYTHING. I’ve always wanted SOMEONE to express the dissatisfaction most of us anti-C.R.A.P./S.H.I.T.’s feel with the current incompentent, pretend, gnu, government. You’ve done that consistently!
My favourite memory:
You were standing in the Commons, with a sheaf of e-mails from SENIORS whose nesteggs were totally destroyed by the Income Trust bait and switch SCAM by Harper and all his corrupt, self-serving lackeys. Their rejoinders were hoots, hollers, animal sounds … as one would expect from devious jackals.
They won’t be expected to REPAY YOU for their deceit. But, I’ll make GODDAMNED SURE THEY REPAY ME AND THOSE AFFECTED.
–It’s a strange sky this night, papa!
–Yes, my son, ‘Tis a Blood Moon.
Giorno, as replacement for Brodie, is not GOOD NEWS ALI! His record, under Harris-Eves, is precursor to the descent of that group into political obscurity.
This, dedicated to all canines, of gentle, loving, innocent soul, who have departed early. Cheka, 2001-2008
Voltaire applies here. I live in BC and we are not going anywhere. I also know many Albertans, and they are loyal as well. I can’t understand why Conservatives talk of the Green Shift as fait accompli, unless they don’t expect to win the next election.
People on this blog & elsewhere talk about the NEP destroying lives.
We have a more recent event that did a lot more damage than that & affected this whole nation—the Tax Fairness Plan.
This plan devastated personal savings of which most has never been recovered–lives of your neighbours & their families have been affected by a policy that is like no other–a policy which was done because of what was perceived as Tax leakage.
Tax leakage has never been proven—-unless you consider 18 blacked-out pages as proof.
Neither Mr Flaherty or Mr Harper have ever hinted at an apology for the wide-spread pain they have caused.
Actually , as with the NEP , apologies are of no consequence when people`s lives are affected to this extent.
All that can be done is attempt to show the gov`t the error of it`s ways & hope they do the right thing—if not , vote against them in the next election.
Dr Mike Popovich–former life-long Conservative.
PS–Garth, Elgin County is behind you , hang in there.
I’m doing plenty of nothing
And nothing’s plenty for me
I got a limo and my ship of fools
I’m giving you people lots of misery
BTW, I am NOT, nor have I EVER been, a LEADER
I’m here with George Dubya today
Dubya’s away right now looking for the EXIT sign
TWO THINGS HAVE GIVEN ME GREAT COMFORT;
1. I emerge with a full stomach, and
http://multimedia.thestar.com/images/89/ec/45e7adef4642abbadc1421aaf924.jpeg
2. Now recognized as being of DUBYA’S species
http://multimedia.thestar.com/images/8c/cf/a9ea10794a359efc1f2f4f61db52.jpeg
Those security people did a heckuva job keeping the rabble away.
Compliments of Stevie [I'm NOT A LEADER] Harper
• that we now live in a country where you cannot call separatists, losers
• that a bunch of people in the West can’t get over a 28-year-old policy and a dead prime minister. What a burden to carry around
• that we burned electrons and felled trees to discuss this, rather than the economy or the environment
• that we can’t discuss climate change any more without talking about money
- Garth
Losers. It used to mean that you had lost something, like a vote on separation. No more, no less. IF that’s how you meant it, no apology required. If you were using it in the modern usage, that’s a whole different story.
They always say an elephant never forgets. (I guess I’m going to have to apologise for that one!) But the Green Shift plan is no NEP!
No electrons were harmed in the blogging on this subject. They just keep going round the circuit and coming back for more. Now the oil, gas and coal burnt to make those electrons move.. more CO2.
And it always comes down to money; some things shouldn’t, but it always does!
You’re showing that you can adapt to the political climate. Good for you!
Now, let’s make sure that Canada can adapt to our changing environmental climate.
Much work to be done!
I accept your apology, Garth – and happily join you in the public stocks.
P.S.: Esther, you’re prejudiced.
When you read the responses, you just know that Canada has to grow up.
This whole running away from home is for kids.
They pretend to love Canada but threaten constantly to leave – you can’t have it both ways – either you love Canada or you don’t.
Hypocrites – that’s Tories for your. Stand up for Canada, but mommy I’m running away from home cause you made me mad – don’t forget your toothbrush.
Well said Garth. Anybody that aspires to break up this great country is a loser, no matter what province they live in.
Any PM that would block climate change talks at the G8 summit and put the health of the world at risk to protect a few dirty, oil sand, dollars when billions are coming in is a pathetic, despicable, petty man undeserving of the leadership of such a great country.
Hello, Garth. I have always been a big fan of your digital democracy experiments. I hope you run nonpartisan workshops for your fellow MPs. They could really use it — and so could we!
I feel pretty embarrassed about the way you feel you always have to carry on about sovereigntists. It’s childish and disrespectful. It is not a personal attack against you or a disrespect to your country that they want to be autonomous. Why do you behave as though it were?
Please stop perpetuating this bogus French/English conflict. It is a bunch of bullshit that politicians love to milk, but it is very harmful. Please stop!
I’m using my real name to try to convey my sincerity.
From http://www.newser.com
“The global food crisis tops the agenda at this year’s G8 summit—and the talks seem to be hungry work, reports the Independent. The 18 dishes at the eight-course luxury dinner served to the leaders last night included caviar, sea urchin, and Kyoto beef—followed by a “G8 fantasy dessert” for those who still had room after the dinner feast and the six-course working lunch.”
Let them eat cake, eh?
Garth, you have way more patience than I. It must be like talking to a tree, or in this case, a lump of coal, when trying to get some of the the sheeple on here to debate the issue rather than scream propoganda.
Forget those that have drank the Conservative Kool-aid as they are lost causes. Keep Concentrating on those who give a damn about the great good of the country and the environment.
In Alberta property value is massively inflated after years of ludicrous jumps in price. My $350K house in NB would probably be over a million out there, which just isn’t right. Add to that the fact they have no provincial sales tax nor any provincial debt and what you have is a very wealthy province. I don’t begrudge Albertan’s this fortune, and I congratulate them on what they have achieved. Yet the oil industry, which has fueled all this prosperity is responsible for massive amounts of pollution. Like it or not Alberta, this pollution has to stop, and yes it will be expensive. It’s time for all Canadians to stop subsizing the oil industry and to stop living with the pollution.
The Green Shift might not be the silver bullet to the problem, but it’s a damn good improvement over the non-action the Conservatives want to do. Set out an expensive carbon tax, offset it with income tax breaks, and lets see what happens!
I just realized: my real name looks French. Will I get a fair shake as a result? Do you really want people wondering that about you? Because I think it’s a justified concern. Just in case: it was a named assumed by a legal ancestor who I am not related to by blood. So please do not hold it against me.
ROTFLMAO at your ‘apology.’
What’s in today’s news? Let’s look at what’s happening at the G8 meetings
Not much in my estimation…a bunch of politicians filling their faces, staying in luxurious surroundings and not coming up with solutions that affect global concerns. You can be bet your bippy that the United States and Canada will not be addressing green house gases—that matter won’t be on their agendas.
On the Economic Front:
Canada’s opportunities are being drastically eroded by the high loonie contrary to what government sources say.
The comments here suggest one thing: if any province in the west tried to separate from the rest of Canada it would be faced with a civil war.
The Alberta separatists are mostly propaganists for the petroleum industry. How many of them have you seen complain about federal tax money subsidizing oil company profits or the high price of gas or oil? They actually applaud this situation no matter what hardship it might cause because the corporations are able to co-opt more and more out of the pockets of hard working Canadians.
While the corporations that control the oil industry have a great deal of influence over provincial and municipal governments, without a federal presence they would be in total control. This is the kind of “state” that western separatists and Stephen Harper idealizes and that he and his supporters are working to create by establishing an alliance with Quebec separatists.
This is why Harper might prefer that the country break into small provincial units more easily controlled by big corporations. In fact, this is the situation Harper seems to prefer: “Whether Canada ends up with one national government or two governments or ten governments, the Canadian people will require less government no matter what the constitutional status or arrangement of any future country may be.” Why do you think he believes this? The reason is that under his ideology power will pass to the most powerful private economic organizations (multi-national corporations).
How many Albertans really want to give the oil companies more power over their everyday lives? They have gradually had to give up clean drinking water and parts of their farms (with little compensation) to the industry along with clean air to breathe, while paying through the nose at the gas pumps for their own resources. How much more are they willing to sacrifice for low taxes? Their lives? The future of their children? Their political freedom? Isn’t this really about making enormous sacrifices on behalf of big oil?
Many Albertans and other westerners are not willing to continue making these sacrifices so they would be willing to fight the separatists who want more power for the oil multi-nationals.
The problem isn’t Alberta, the problem is Easterners that can’t get beyond their stereotype of who we are out here
By Irvine on 07.07.08 11:40 pm
I half agree with you. The easterners “stereotype” is half the problem.
The “West” also has strong stereotypes about what “Easterners” think about them – and they aren’t true at all.
Calberta on 07.08.08 1:13 am
Cal I`ve never met any of this lunatic right fringe or even read any of their literature, I`ll just have to take your word about them.
I have met and read many on the lunatic left fringe though. The ones that find it acceptable to burgle the national treasury for $40m and say it was good for the country. How they ignore the will of Parliament in creating record numbers of parent denied children causing crime to go through the roof. They even have a plan to put 2 million more Cdn children into early learning day care which as we know doesn`t fix the problem the child has in losing a parent. lol, there`s even one group here that keeps posting on a plan thats touted to save the environment and the economy but that`s as far as it goes. lol, not saving anything, just saying they have a plan that will do that.
It`s so bad international investors have lost confidence in Canada and we certainly know if there`s a chance big money will lose money they are gone, which they are.
We need to stand together against fringe elements on both sides so wether you`re a separatist or a federalist standing up to these lunatics, I welcome you aboard.
Yes We Can
hope we can all sleep tonight.
By Pat. G. on 07.07.08 11:44 pm
Least your not alone.
The problem isn’t Alberta, the problem is Easterners that can’t get beyond their stereotype of who we are out here
Irvine
Calgary, via Waterloo, Ontario
By Irvine on 07.07.08 11:40 pm
Oh, much like the stereotyping of Easterners? If you want people to see you differently – present yourself differently.
PERFECT Apology Garth BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO!
Many long years ago my father told me when he knew their was something on my mind and was not speaking up said these words to me: “If you go something to say David say it now for you are long time dead”
It appears many who criticize Garth Turner have something to say, Garth Turner has taken the time to speak to all Canadians allowing many to exercise their right to speak to Canada and beyond in a public forum….and for that I say well done Garth Turner. Should any not agree the choice is theirs to either change the channel or sell your computer or debate in adult manner….it’s just that simple.
People should read this essay on rational discussion; we might be able to tolerate one another a little bit better, and perhaps not get into so much trouble while trying to get a point across:
http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
Keep your stick on the ice, Garth, and don’t stop speaking out.
I wish my MP had the stones to be half as accessible to his constituents as you do. But then, he’d not be long for the party either.
Set out an expensive carbon tax, offset it with income tax breaks, and lets see what happens!
By Joe in NB on 07.08.08 8:41 am
You do realize that not knowing how much it`ll cost to administer or where that money will come from has all the basic ingredients of the long gun registry only on a much grander scale.
Why would you support any program constructed around those parameters while at the same time not even having a clear picture of the results.
Personally I`d prefer to know what will be the result before leaping into on a very reckless `lets see what happens`. That kind of reckless action such as the, and just to mention a few, gun registry, divorce act, 40 year mortgage, child care, and now the green tax shift plan by our elected federal government and all parts of is driving western separation.
Do we have any numbers of cost of admin or where the money comes from?
Garth…stop it. Right now. Do not ever let anyone force you to eat your words, especially words that 80% of this country agrees with. Dion’s problem is personal simply because he was a separatist himself at one point.
You did not make Dion’s Alberta swing more difficult, how could you? Dion is making Dion’s trip extremely difficult because in a time of high energy costs NO ONE wants to hear about a ‘new energy tax’ period. It was so bad and he was so afraid of actually talking to the ‘big people’ in Alberta that the LP had to plant a so-called youth group in Alberta so he could have an attentive audience without heckling.
Dion is having a bad week and he would be more than willing to blame you or anyone than to accept any of it himself. He is a selfish arrogant man despite the picture the LP has tried to paint.
It must also piss him off to read articles like this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/07/07/dl0701.xml
“Of all the leaders, only Stephen Harper – the talented but curiously neglected Canadian prime minister – is able to point to a popular and successful record in office.
Some will regard it as alarming that, in current times, world leadership should rest with Canada. But the Canadian Tories are a model of how to behave during a downturn.
They have kept spending in check and reduced taxes. They are playing their full role in world affairs, notably in Afghanistan.
Rather than canting about saving the world (Mr Harper, in his quiet and courteous way, is a Kyoto-sceptic) they have addressed themselves to curing remediable ills and, above all, to putting their own affairs in order.
If the rest of the world had comported itself with similar modesty and prudence, we might not be in this mess.”
~Garth if you say this does not make you feel pride, I would say you are lying.
And, now you also have the affidavit of Mrs. Cadman…
No…Mr. Dion is in for a bad summer and the rest of you better duck n cover because he’ll be looking for lots of fall guys.
Leasa
P.S. I can’t wait for your liberal trolls here to tell us that The Telegraph in the U.K. is a CPC biased rag…LOL
We know you love it. You’ve posted it twice in two days. Good media is hard to find. Too bad you had to go to Britain. — Garth
I saw Mr. Dion at the town hall last night. He never fails to impress with his respect for others’ opinions. When people, try to goad him into taking a cheap shot at his opponents, he always responds with a polite, thoughtful comment instead. He has a level of patience that the rest of us can only aspire to. His approach, rather than name-calling, is the way to get a message out.
I called such separatists, who put regional and self-interest ahead of the national cause, “self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing.”
posted by Garth Turner on 07.04.08 @ 7:12 pm
Garth, one of the problems here is that you are equating the liberal cause with a national cause. They are not the same.
Your liberal cause of tax shift is a political maneuver supported by partisans. It is not supported by the general public according to a new poll.
http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=2858b518-1656-4a10-ace8-873a33967dab
So the problem with the idea of the separatist losers is that you call them that because they don’t support the liberals. You call them that because they remember the time of the NEP. They remember businesses closing, homes lost, etc. They remember Kieth Davie’s “screw the west we’ll keep the rest” comment. Their suspicions of the NEP wealth transfer were confirmed by NEP architect Marc Lalonde. Chretien’s comment about how he doesn’t like to deal with Alberta. And so on…
So protecting regional interests from the hand of the liberals is something I would expect and demand from my politicians. Kinda like you representing your constituency to Ottawa.
So when you start into the west again it stirs up the history Alberta has had with the federal liberals. Now with the new Dion tax plan and him meeting with a group while in Edmonton whose goal it is to shut down the oil sands is certainly cause for concern.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2008/07/06/6083231-cp.html
Having said that Garth, you have nothing to apologize for. You said what you said and you meant it. Thats very refreshing. A politician that says what they think. Now we know where you stand. An apology that is forced from one who doesn’t mean it is one of the worst forms of coercion. The terrorists in the middle east use that on their captives routinely.
Politicians, from all stripes, are notoriously deceptive. They have the sound bite and the photo op for the general public. From that we are to choose who is best suited to lead the country. We don’t know them. Thats where hidden agenda conspiracy theorists come in.
With Garth, its all out there. And the fact that Dion keeps him in caucus, lets him continue with his blog and doesn’t insist on an apology tells us where Dion stands. Thats what we need. We need to know where politicians are on sensitive issues. Now we know.
Where does Dion stand? Looks like it’s on the side of free speech and independent thought. I know this drives you crazy, but fortunately the trip was short. — Garth
so wether you`re a separatist or a federalist standing up to these lunatics, I welcome you aboard.
Yes We Can
By buddy, spare a dime? on 07.08.08 9:17 am
OK I’ll stand with you under a strong united Canadian flag.I am NOT a federalist I am a CANADIAN.
Separatists are traitors to my country Canada. I live in Alberta but there are millions like me all across this great nation that stand with me for a “truse north strong and free” .
I won’t get on board with your “traitor train” I stand where I am in my country Canada. With all its quirks and warts it is my country, Canada the greatest nation to live in on earth!
It’s hilarious that half the flock thinks Garth’s latest “f-you” was a sincere apology (and they cheer him for it) while the other half see it as a defiant “up yours” (and they cheer him for it as well). C’mon little flock, let’s all bleat in unison.
By the way, Esther, I’ve seen people kiss up to the boss before but I have never in my life seen such a display of vigourous and sustained ass-kissing. What was it..? someone so pure in thought, word and deed that they carry us to the next level. Wow! Now there’s a boot that’s been licked clean!
Garth,
The worst kind of idiot in the world is the one who thinks he’s nothing else to learn – and that’s you. You can’t reflect on your prejudices because you’re too small to admit to a mistake. The people you are calling “losers” include Mr. Dion’s father and Mr. Dion himself (before he changed his mind). This incident comes as no surprise to those who read you carefully. You have no respect for other opinions and no respect for other people (even the ones who bleat approvingly for your attention here). You think everyone is a loser and you reflect it in the way you speak.
Post or delete as you see fit… I’ve said and you’ve read it and that’s all that can be hoped for…
Yes We Can
By buddy, spare a dime? on 07.07.08 10:59 pm
Glad to see you are using Barack Obama’s phrase. He and his campaign people might not be however.
As to your imminent separation from canada, please, tell us who you are goin gto join with your American ‘friends’? You ain;t seen nothing yet Buddy!
Yes you SHOULD! It will be so entertaining watching all your rights and freedoms vanish like a beer fart in a hurricane.
Just get those placards out and GO for it Buddy! Comeon, put your placard where your mouth is and GET IT DONE!
Maybe you should consult with the PQ, I am sure they can give you lots of really good tips on how to separate from Canada. They were so successful.
Garth,
Seems even the MSM is getting the message? (Talk about AMAZING, eh?)
How do you feel about this headline?
The news business, as you may have read in the news, is in dire straits. To be a print journalist today is to understand the existential angst once suffered by the cobblers, dray men and haymongers of yore.
We know you love it. You’ve posted it twice in two days. Good media is hard to find. Too bad you had to go to Britain. — Garth
I agree Garth. It is too bad that the partisan liberal media in Canada can’t stomach the fact that our Prime Minister is so well respected internationally. That the international community recognizes what he does domestically and applauds with envy.
Yes Garth, I’m with you on that one.
Janice: You mean like when our NATO allies applauded with glee when informed that Harper had allowed classified documents to be left in a suspect location?
Or like when Harper allowed his pal Brodie to interfere in the elections in the U.S.?
They may be smiling on the outside but they are laughing in ridicule on the inside!!!
Lawrence: And what do you say to Harper and company who rise in the House every day and call the elected Bloc separatists impotent, powerless and insignificant??
Should they all apologize too? After all these elected Bloc members are speaking for their separatist constituents.
Way to go Garth! Awesome apology!
I hope you don’t take this the wrong way but it is good that you are who you are and that you do what you do.
The Right wing sphere seems so full of bullies and aggressivity that the Left sphere deserves to have the same kind of firepower, and you fit the bill to a T. You are a frontline warrior and no matter how many times you are attacked (daily if you count this blog), you keep on bringing the fight to them and getting in some good shots that DO have them reeling (why else would they use up so much energy and money fighting you, you are definitely hurting them with facts and the truth, two concepts they have yet to grasp), and for that, I am grateful for you standing up to the bloviating and ignorant trolls that are temporarily in power. Karma will be their undoing, as they have a lot of mean-spiritedness, heartless actions and callous words to answer for. Make no mistake, Harper and his robots/potted plants WILL be kicked out of office, and their ignominous fate will be cheered by millions across this country and beyond. This administration will not be missed when the electorate will have spoken and it will be good riddance to them. The Harperatives are actually just the fertilizer that will yield a greener and better Canada.
Dear Garth
Thank you for the apology to M. Dion. You were not supposed to be the story last Saturday and I know you regret that.
And now for something completely different…
Maybe we need a blogger exchange program to expand the dialogue here.
In other words, I would have to argue the opposing view in a blogger debate.
But we would need some ground rules.
It must be factual and not opinion.
It must be written by the person – not a political party.
It must be respectful – no name calling.
Since this is your blog you could choose the topic.
Do you think there is anyone from a Conservative viewpoint that would participate?
“for opposing those who put self interest before Canada”
You are attempting to bribe Canadians with other people’s money, while terrorizing them with predictions about catastrophic anthropogenic climate change.
This style of royalty burden is passed directly to consumers. That means Canadians. And then we are expected to trust the federal government to take this giant pile of money and just give t back? I remain skeptical of government good intentions.
Saskatchewan has 3% of Canada’s population. It generates power by burning coal. It also generates some 10% of the GHG emissions. Farming and resource based industry. That means Saskatchewan’s 3% of the people will bear 10% of the cost of Green shift. It will receive 3% (allegedly) of the tax cuts. Populations that have manufacturing based economies with nukes and hydro (Ontario, Quebec) will receive most of the tax cuts.
How is that not taking money from Saskatchewan’s people and giving to Ontario and Quebec?
You are the one self appointed to insult and belittle people you so clearly no little about or have sympathy for. I am pleased that the liberal tax and spend plan has you to sell it.
The carbon tax is on emitters, not residents. Emitters then either reduce emissions (and tax) by becoming more efficient or pass the cost on to consumers, most of whom do not live in Saskatchewan, which means the money flows back to the emitters. How does this penalize you? Explain. — Garth
The obnoxious Garth Turner?
http://www.nationalpost.com/most_popular/story.html?id=636638
This hardly compares to the $35 billion broken income trust promise of The obnoxious Stephen Harper and his con cohorts! Did Garth cause a $35 billion loss? Was Garth lying about what he was saying? No, he was just speaking his mind. I thought that people would have a thicker skin than to have their feelings hurt by Garth Turner when he calls those that would build a firewall around Alberta and separate from Canada in Quebec; losers! The real losers in all of this are those who believed Stephen Harper’s promises!
Your message was dead on, Garth; it was only the hyperbole in which you couched it that raised eyebrows. It’s time more people started standing up for Canada and stopped pandering to the separatists. God bless Pierre Trudeau, Stephan Dion, and Garth Turner.
Mr. Turner, firstly you must understand the following.
Trudeau with his NEP cost me over $250,000.00 that’s like me taking over $1,000,000.00 today out of your bank account.
The only good thing about Trudeau is that he is dead the only bad thing is that we should have buried the charter of rights with him and I know exactly where I would have stuck it.
Now your Green POOP plan is nothing more than a transfer of wealth once again to Quebec and Ontario but mostly to buy Quebec votes.
Remember your buddy Allan Rock who said the gun registry would only cost taxpayers $2 Million Dollars well what’s it up to now $3, Billion. So this Green Poop plan will probably go to the $100’s of Billions of Dollars and break the country economically forever. Although you will probably have to hire a couple 100,000 new government employees to handle the mess.
You bleeding heart Liberals have not one, one thousand of of 1 % of math abilities and common sense. So your green poop idea that is supposedly revenue neutral is even greater pie in the sky than you whacko gun registry and all the other crap you Liberal bleeding hearts have dumped on us.
So please get this straight you, DION and any other Green POOP people are no longer welcome in the West and Alberta.
Should you twits ever again get in power in wonderland and put in place your GREEN POOP plan then that will be the end of Canada as you know it.
In simple terms there will be anarchy, rebellion and break up of the country with Alberta and the west leaving, but also in the process we will boot Quebec out.
I have been raped, plundered, lied to and have had our tax dollars wasted and stolen by you Liberal twits of wonderland for over 50 years.
Enough is enough, one mad as hell taxpayer who no longer trusts or respects Wonderland and its twits.
Any if you think I should get over the fact that you cost me over a quarter million dollars with your NEP, forget it I am like an elephant and will continue to blast you Liberals at any opportunity for as long as I can draw a breath of air.
And this time around we will “Let You Eastern Bastards Freeze in the Dark”
Bob Wilkins
Innisfail in the New Peoples Republic of Alberta
Have a flag yet, Bob? — Garth
Canada the greatest nation to live in on earth!
By Calberta on 07.08.08 10:17 am
Standing up to the thugs defending our basic rights and freedoms should never be deemed treason.
I fail to see how support the mantra given by a previous PM that government corruption is good for the country. Isn`t that treason?
How about turning out basic rights and freedoms over to a handful of unelected unaccountable lawyers that then are supposed to fight the government for your rights. When did the government go for by the people for the people to the peoples enemy that requires the common to seek the courts to protect them for government. In case you`re wondering it was about 40 years ago.
Anytime any and all of you including you Garth can put the name calling aside and address the issues that are fueling western separation there will be many that are willing to debater them respectfully.
Not me though I think the federal government is broken because it`s too fukll of losers.
Yes We Can
I love what your saying.
You and Dion are the best assets the Conservatives have.
Keep up the good work.
Furthermore:
Global warming is nothing more than political hot air. Politicians like to maintain control of the electorate and the scare mongering seems to be working to some extent in the eastern provinces. Dion’s green shift is another detestable tax that is going to raise the price of all our every day needs. If shift happens we’re shift out of luck especially in the west. Alberta, Saskatchewan, Nunavut, Northwest Territories, and Iqaluit want nothing to do with the Liberal’s shift.
According to scientific evidence we’ve been into a cooling period for the preceding ten years. Al Gore’s global warming presentations have made him a multi-millionaire with his hot air rhetoric. His carbon foot print is ten times larger than the average family. His carefully orchestrated movie showing ice melting and falling into oceans and polar bears playing in the Arctic has been happening since time and will continue to do so forever. Carbon Dioxide is very important on our planet as plants and trees convert it to oxygen giving us the breath of life. Instead of the Liberal shift, plant a tree.
The only shift to happen will be Dion and Goodall departing politics after the next election and I’m expecting you will be cashing in on your pension also.
Shift happens.
The people you are calling “losers” include Mr. Dion’s father and Mr. Dion himself (before he changed his mind).
By Lawrence on 07.08.08 10:19 am
FACT CHECK
FYI Lawrence,
Leon Dion was a respected federalist who received the Order of Canada in 1996.
Please do not make things up about someone who is no longer with us to defend his good name.
Trudeau with his NEP cost me over $250,000.00 that’s like me taking over $1,000,000.00 today out of your bank account.
Bob Wilkins
Innisfail in the New Peoples Republic of Alberta
By Bob on 07.08.08 10:57 am
Your greed exceeded your intellect in other words!
I bet you also whine like the loser you are when the casino wants you to fork over what you chose to run up?
Thank you for your honesty about the Quebecois nationalists.
In recent years I have been telling anyone who’ll listen to me that the one most common desease that probably 90% of french quebecers all aquire early in their lives is without a doubt ANGLOPHOBIA!! And also CANADAPHOBIA!!!
It has been drummed into to them for centuries; quite literally, by church and state politicians as well as their educational institutions. This has made them into a perpetually isolated linguistic and highly munipulatable culturally tribalist society.
Ignorance, fear of the other not to forget historical revisionism has kept this cultural group on a slow simmer at the best of times in terms of the unity debate. They are so hung up on hating anglos and the rest of Canada that these concerns are of greater importance to them than the price of gas and the potentially disasterous economic situation the entire west is facing.
Anyway, I have always been embarrased to call myself a Quebecer. They are an embarrasment unto themselves. Their comupance has been long delayed. Now it is here.
Incidently, I have read your book, “2015 After the Boom”. You could see this coming in 2002 when I read it. Congratulations!
Please keep up the “political incorrectness” and maintain focus on being correct!
Maurice,
Montreal
Mr. Garth TurnerMP,
Thanksyou for being human, and offering an apology, and short explanation of your thinking behind the words you spock.
Thankyou for caring about all the people in yours and ower Canada,
and doing what you are able to do to help make this an even better place to live in now and into the future for everyone.
Thankyou for for standing on your on two feet, and not just bending over because a few think(wrongy) that it is politically correct or expediant.
Thank you for being you!
I was so pleased to see someone with the stones to stand up for Canada against the separate elements in P.Q. All we have seen so far are political parties get down on their knees to these elements attempting to win their favour chipping away at what it means to be Canada. We give them money, more influence and still the whining continues. Enough is enough. These policies represent nothing but blackmail. You are such a breath of fresh air. Don’t let anyone ever stop you from defending Canada. This country needs a champion. We are doing the same thing on the native front giving away our country and accomplishng nothing. It is a disgrace however. Thanks Again.
Muskoka,
the How do you feel about this headline? link has the secret encoded at point 3 – “No hidden agendas”.
Remove hidden agendas from the corporate media, and trust, relevance and circulation will be restored. Since the corporate and media elite so far has done well treating consumers as dummies, they will not face this fact until they have come unstuck.
Innisfail in the New Peoples Republic of Alberta
Have a flag yet, Bob? — Garth
By Bob on 07.08.08 10:57 am
Two giant beaver pissing on coal fired gen. station
I worked in Alberta during the first NEP which the liberals admitted was designed to hurt Alberta. It worked, I lost my job, many of my friends lost their houses and businesses because of the cynical liberal plan to steal from Albertans and use the money to buy votes in th east.
Try it again.
Please.
It will result in a separate Alberta.
Then who will pay the bills for you corrupt and greedy liberal voters?
Bring it on baby, bring it on.
Hi Garth just wanted to let you know I am behind you all the way by calling Quebec Separatists what they are !!!!!!!! I think you were rather soft on them however.Loyal Canadians in Quebec be they French or English speaking or both won`t be offended by what you said just the separatists and what they think is just to bad boo hoo.For the leaders of the other federal parties, including Dion, not to stand behind you is embarrassing for them they should also be treating separatists with complete disdain and say it ! Treating separatists with kid gloves is a mistake and it should be pointed out to all Canadians time and time again that these separatists want to destroy one of the greatest countries ever known to mankind.So Garth keep on saying what you want about that separatist vermin because Canadians are listing!Thanks Matthew Guelph
Mr. Garth TurnerMP, FYI
My father just sent me this link to a video clip (3 1/2min.) of a new Ford car assemble plant in Brazil.
http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189
What can we as Canadians do to get this sort of manufacturing to locate here in Canada? So we Canadians can add value to the stuff we mine here and all be able to afford and manybe even inprove everyones standard of living. We can sell the stuff to eachother and to the reset of the world too!
Hopefulling we will be making the most energy efficant stuff we will all need to be using, and very,very soon!
Too stop Global Climate Heating and get ready for the end of oil, peak-oil.
Where does Dion stand? Looks like it’s on the side of free speech and independent thought. I know this drives you crazy, but fortunately the trip was short. — Garth
By Janice on 07.08.08 10:15 am
Garth, I absolutely agree. I am a free speech advocate unlike many of your followers here that want people banned because they don’t agree with them. Or others that simply resort to name calling or slander because they don’t have the intellect or vocabulary to say something meaningful.
I am all for you expressing your opinion. We need more of that. I don’t have to agree with you but I want to know where my politicians are on issues. I think we are in a sad time when views are suppressed. When those who do express such are vilified not for the content but for making the statement. Then forced apologies. That is where we are in this country. Thats how terrorists work.
So, Garth, regarding free speech, what is your view on Dr Kieth Martin’s motion to have subsection 13 of the CHR act removed? I would think you of all people would be shouting loud about how the CHR has eroded our freedom to express ourselves.
A short quip here would be nice and perhaps a blog entry at another time.
“Please do not make things up …”
Bonnie, that would reduce Lawrence to speechlessness.
Hi Herb on 07.08.08 11:07 am,
When you vote, remember the new comunications act(I think?) that PMSH gand is trying to push through into law, that will put content controls and added cost to even look at stuff on the webb, like http://www.garth.ca and other news sources and information.
(Can you sat ‘yes big brother’)
Keep up the good work Garth and thank you for having a mind of your own and the courage to express it…something that is desperately lacking in the majority of our elected MPs (and totally lacking in the harper caucus).
“that I had impure thoughts about … The Flames.
posted by Garth Turner on 07.07.08 @ 9:54 pm
Now you’ve crossed line. Just for that, Hamilton isn’t getting a team and the Leafs, well, nuff said …
You are outspoken and a loose cannon. That can be refreshing. Calling people names though is the job of the Conservative party. You bring a great deal to our government and I hated to see you stoop to the level you did by calling the separatists such names.
Oh well – as for the country being divided isn’t that Harper’s agenda?
Bob Wilkins
Innisfail in the New Peoples Republic of Alberta
Have a flag yet, Bob? — Garth
By Bob on 07.08.08 10:57 am
FACT CHECK
On June 30, 2008 Harris Decima took a poll of Canadians asking them:
How they would rank their pride in Canada on a scale from 1 – 10?
Albertans ranked the highest with an average of 9.34 ranking. The highest in the country!
Canada Yes Succession No
For those interested in solutions, watch Nova Science Now’s ‘Capturing Carbon’
A scientist, and other scientists, gopt the idea from his daughter’s Science fair Project. They have devleoped a membrane that absorbs CO2 like tree leaves.
Also watch how much CO2 each of you emit in a year and how many trees it takes to absorb the CO2.
How many pounds of carbon do you emit?
This technology can solve much of the CO2 emissions and it does not require any energy to operate. It merely requires the air to passed opver the membranes like leaves on a tree.
I’d like to see Garth compare recent oil rich Newfoundlanders to Albertans to Separitist losers for not worshipping at Green Tax Altar of the Natural Governing Church of Canada.
The hot air resulting from two of the biggest moronic blowhards in recent history over the comparison would surely be enough to sustain Canada’s windfarms for generations.
My all means Garth go ahead and take the next logical step and call Newfoundlanders losers.
Where is Danny Williams on this resource tax grab anyways?
Not only can you but you should call Seperatists losers. Also seditionists and traitors and just plain whiners. Not to mention naked opportunists who use the threat of separation as level to get an unfair share of the pie for their province.
Bonnie comes with the FACT CHECK;
It appears that you are right. Although Leon Dion is described as “wavering” after Meech Lake it seems he was a federalist through the larger part of his academic career. My mistake.
It doesn’t take away from the fact that he was a friend and advisor to Quebec politicians “of all stripes” and that he treated his adversaries with respect. It also doesn’t change the fact that Stephane Dion himself was a separatist… or in Garth Turner’s vernacular “a Loser.”
It was the liberals who said ‘Screw the west, we’ll take the rest’. How does that promote national unity?
Forget that poor Dion would faint at the sound of such vulgar language and think about that.
Dion’s new plan is just another NEP by another name, it will screw the west so they can use the money to buy votes in Central Canada.
The liberals are doing nothing less than gambling with the very existence of Canada in their cynical lust for power.
This plan is simply taking money from people in the west to buy votes in the east.
The question is, are the voters in Central Canada corrupt enough to go for it?
I’m betting they are.
I think one guy said that, three decades ago. John Diefenbacher cut up the Avro Arrow. Do you have a point? — Garth
By Herb on 07.08.08 11:18 am
Herb, aren’t you a little embarrassed that you have nothing more substantive to say? Bonnie took the opportunity to correct me (and good on her) while you’ve got nothing but ankle-biting asides to contribute. Maybe you should take up gardening, discussion seems to be waay above your head.
I worked in Alberta during the first NEP which the liberals admitted was designed to hurt Alberta. It worked, I lost my job, many of my friends lost their houses and businesses because of the cynical liberal plan to steal from Albertans and use the money to buy votes in th east.
Try it again.
Please.
It will result in a separate Alberta.
Then who will pay the bills for you corrupt and greedy liberal voters?
Bring it on baby, bring it on.
By STan on 07.08.08 11:16 am
Stan, I too was in Alberta during the NEP. We almost lost our family business. Fortunately we survived.
The new Dion carbon tax is not unlike the NEP. The premise is to tax carbon. Sask and Alta produce 40% of the nation’s CO2. They have 12% of the population.
To generate $15B in tax revenue as Dion expects, Sask and Alta will have $6B taken out of their economy in this new tax. When in Sask Dion refused to commit to replacing that carbon tax dollar for dollar with income tax cuts.
So anyone who experienced the NEP is immediately skeptical and even cynical that the liberals would return any significant amount back to the region that does not elect liberals.
All that stirs up resentment and threats and everything else. However, when one actually looks at the scenario with cooler heads a few observations become clear.
First, Dion will never be Prime Minister of Canada. His popularity is lower than a Republican presidential candidate. Can you get any lower than that?
Second, his tax shift plan isn’t even accepted among his caucus. No one other than Dion and Turner are even talking about this. Dion has basically thrown Ralph Goodale under the bus. This long time influential liberal won’t take that lying down. He was Martin’s biggest ally and has many Martin friends on his side.
Third, recent polling shows the tax plan is not widely know and those that are familiar with it don’t support it. Every time someone hears about its another vote against the liberals. Thats a hard sell.
Fourth, by summers end Dion will be in the unenviable position of either facing the electorate with a tax plan they don’t want or facing his party as a leader they don’t want. The liberals won’t have the resources to fight another leadership campaign as well as be ready for an election in fall of 2009. So both Dion and the liberals are in tough.
So Stan you don’t have much to worry about.
Yeah I do have a point Garth. The one liberal guy who said ’screw the west we’ll take the rest’ was vocalizing the liberal strategy and policy.
But it wasn’t just one guy, Marc lalonde, the liberal architect of the NEP also admitted it was designed to punish Alberta.
So, yeah, only a few liberals admitted it, but ’screw the west’ was liberal policy.
Same as ’screw the west’ was liberal policy when Martin was going to impose Kyoto on Alberta’s oil industry but not on Ontario’s auto industry.
Same as when the liberals ranted about Alberta destroying Medicare while Quebec actually opened private clinics.
Divide and conquer has always been the liberal strategy, and their only motivation is power, that’s why they are prepared to risk the break up of Canada to get back in power.
There are thousands of Albertans who lost their houses, jobs, and businesses because of this ’screw the west’ approach of the liberals.
You might have forgotten it, but we haven’t.
Actually, it was Keith Davey. But you believe whatever you want. I know it’s important to you. — Garth
And this time around we will “Let You Eastern Bastards Freeze in the Dark”
Bob Wilkins
Innisfail in the New Peoples Republic of Alberta
Have a flag yet, Bob? — Garth
By Bob on 07.08.08 10:57 am
Well, there you have it, spoken like a true redneck from Buttville Alberta. Tell me Bob do you support the Cons spending 500 BILLION on the military over the next 20 years? Do you think there’s a possibility of a budget over-run with that plan?
And just how did the NEP cost you a quarter million bucks? And please make sure you exclude the country wide recession when you calculate your figures.
Mr. Garth TurnerMP,
I heard about the G8 so-called leaders
announcement to cut GHG by 2050 by 50%.
These so-called leaders have NO CLOTHES!
(Maybe just one sock on.)
These incompetent people, so-called leaders just don’t get it! Do they even care about there on kids and everyone else’s future on the only planet we have to try and stay alive on? What are their goals, who’s short term interests are they really looking out for and why? It doesn’t look to me like they are even trying to plan for the best long tern interests of everyone now and in the future, which includes YOU!
Where are the good science advisors? Do they listen and really understand? It doesn’t think so or they would be doing what is really needed in time!
The announcement is just fluff.
The cut by 50% of what? No amount given or year to given as a base line.
It’s like being in a sinking ship and the leaders saying the patch for the hole is going to get done. But it’ll be a patch smaller than the hole and it’ll be finished in time, but only after the ship has sunk!
These so-called leaders need to get out of the way!
But even more importantly
‘The people’ need to get them out of the way of really getting the job done in time, or we are all just F****D!
Tell everyone. And make sure everyone VOTES in time to really get the job done!!!! Don’t get taken in by these lies and have measures.
Your life and that of your families depends on you getting the facts and acting in your families own best interest, to get the job done in time.
The time is running out to get it done, and there’s only time to do it right the first time, or else…
The truly BRUTAL effects of GHG Heating will result in the DEATHS of Billions of human beings if not everyone. That includes you and your family!
The information from a few years back indicates we need to already have started to make real GHG cuts by 2012! (Not by 2050, it way to late!)
And the latest science has shown that the rate of heating is going much fastest than any of the computer models predicted! (The best model thought the Artic might be ice-free by 2050. But it looks like it’ll be ice-free this summer!!! Are your alarm bells going off yet? They should be if your paying attention.)
The best science is telling us, if you are listening/informed critical-thinker, that 2010-2012 at the outside is the time we have left to be really start reducing GHG levels(not 2020 or 2050) back to below 1990 levels.
There is a so-called tipping point were the Heating will start a process of no return.
(Like getting to close to a black hole, there’s then no way out. kind of like the way we seem to be headed with peak-oil so fare.)
You’re smart. You’re well informed. You can think for your self. You care about your own life. You care about your family’s future and other human beings.
So don’t just site around and weight for others to act. You need to do it and help NOW, before it’s to late, for you and your family to be about to live into your old age!!!
What are you waiting for????!
The People in the MADIA, you have gotten your self-well informed, and armed with the latest and best good science right?
So what are you going to do to help get the required information out to the people to make a real difference, and get the job done in time, to save the planet from over Heating, cosign the deaths of billions of people including your selves and your families.
What are you MEDIA waiting for???
Thanks you, to the few MEDIA that have been trying keep getting the good information out to the people.
As for you others MEDIA?
Get informed and act in your own best self interests now, or else you, your family and everyone else will suffer a terrible DEATH! And sooner that you might think!!!
(Don’t believe me check out the facts for your self!)
At the very least stop adding confusion into the publics minds. The very small numbers of Global Heating deniers are out to lunch! Who are paying them?
What is there agenda? Are they already old and don’t care about anyone but them selves?
Start to use your own brain, that’s what there for!
So Garth, too gutless to publish my reply I see.
You asked what my point was but you won’t post it.
That’s weak, but typically sleazy.
The liberal policy was ’screw the west’, same as it is now with this new NEP.
Marc lalonde admitted it as did Davies.
Thousands of Albertans remember losing their jobs, houses, and businesses because the liberals had a policy of ’screw the west’.
We haven’t forgotten that.
And you can be too gutless to post this, but we both know what will happen if Dion implements this fiasco.
You liberals are doing nothing less than gambling with the very existence of Canada.
Shame on you.
You posted your comment 14 minutes ago, and I happened to be out for a walk. This is an attitude that defines you. Sad. — Garth
Received a mail from out West, guess they are up now, a tax poem. Of course we all can name many countries that do not pay taxes, like Iraq and Afghanistan so it seems rather silly. In any rate wrt to us here in East, we may be poor (?) but not uneducated nor were we ever. The highest standard of education in my day was Quebec followed very close by Nova Scotia and rest of the Maritimes…and many of our graduates moved West to open their wings so to speak, lucky you.
Awww..someone’s mad because they lost their communications advisor to the leader job.
As you’ll be kicked out of causus by the end of the summer, I guess becoming a Green MP is starting to look pretty good.
Stephane? Is that you? — Garth
Oops, bad Bold HTML close. Sorry. here it is again, and may the Moderator please erase my first posting.
Since the corporate and media elite so far has done well treating consumers as dummies, they will not face this fact until they have come unstuck.
By Herb on 07.08.08 11:07 am
Herb,
Good point. In fact, the corporate media’s main interest is advertising, not news. News to them is like movies to theater owners. They are interested in selling ’space’ just like the original movie theater owners plan wherein they had to have something to attract the customers to fill their seats.
Advertising is the crux of their bread and butter, not news. This is what is truly hurting them now because with the Internet advertisers having their own websites, their own message, and at a far, far cheaper cost than media advertising, which has increased to become an very high cost, and locally effective form, there delayed advertising is like a DoDo Bird…soon to be extinct.
This is also why we have so little real investigative journalism, because the MSM uses the news sources, rather than pursuing the stories on their own, look at TorStar for instance…600 people laid off, and more to come. It is also the reason that, except for columnists, if you’ve read or seen the news,on one source, you have all they have to offer. They have milked the mindless consumerism cow for decades, and the teats are now old and hard. Madison Avenue’s ‘Ad Agencies’ are hard pressed to come up with anything anyone will watch. The greatest advance in TV’s has been the Mute Button. LOL
This in turn has fostered the Pretty Talking Head Syndrome (PTHS as I have deemed it), foretold by ‘Max Headroom’. This is how sex is used to replace content. Perhaps it has replaced the old Sear’s Catalogues for some?
Just look at the Bylines to realize how little real variety of news sources there are here, and the U.S. is far, far worse. That is why CNN became popular, but then blew it by running hour after hour of trivial ‘news’ coverage which informs no one of anything, just a platform for Talking Heads like Wolf Blitzer. His Blitkrieges of things like the Pope’s visit and the campaign coverage in the Situation Room (Yeah right, and my bathroom has more ’situations’ than his studio.)are a joke of news coverage. Hour upon hour of Wolf pontificating (very similar to defficating IMO) about meaningless nothingness. I guess that is great for people who do not have a life, but I do.
Likewise, this has given rise to the likes of Mike Duffy, Rush Limbaugh, etc., and as a response spawned satire news shows like Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, who IMHO, present more actual news than the networks national programs, with the exception of CBC’s Peter Mansbridge, who is still a real journalist out in the field as often as possible. Likewise there are real journalists like Christina Armanpour of CNN, and the very intelligent Laura Logan. I really urge everyone to watch this video from the Daily Show, because you will realize that there are still a few real, dedicated journlaists who, like Garth, will STAND UP for the TRUTH.
CBS’s Lara Logan Slams American Coverage Of Iraq War (VIDEO)
Then we need to realize there is a a real CHNAGE happening to our South Obama sets leadership standard The article speaks of the NDP’s dilemma in finding a new leader, but I especially find this quote from J.K. Rowling, the author of Harry Potter stories.
Finally, as J.K. Rowling said in a commencement address to Harvard University graduates last month, there are worse things in life than a spell of hardship.
In some ways, failure sets you free, she said, to jettison old ideas, refocus, take risks.
“I had an old typewriter and a big idea,” she said. “And so rock bottom became the solid foundation on which I rebuilt my life.”
We all need to realize when preserving something that has served its time has an expiry date. When building a new home one must go to the foundation and without that being solid all the expensive structure that one can build will not stand.
We have a dire need to return to the core principles that Canada stands for, not the meelee of bandaid patchwork it has become catering to special foreign interests under the CONservatives like Mulroney, Harris, and now Harper. Likewise, when building the future we must incorporate the latest techology. No more wadded paper insultation. Today we have far superior means. Pretty much like comparing the rag sheet newspapers with the Internet. They have served their time, and their expiry date has come to present.
And THEY KNOW IT! That is why they are ONLINE! Their ‘Classifieds’ have been replaced mostly by such online entities as eBay. This will expand, and is daily, with localized sites that inform people of events and offers.
The Googles, Yahoos, and others are the NEW MSM for the western world, and even the Eastern world now.
I think Vinay Minon’s column in today’s Star says that very clearly.
Garth, I’m with you in a lot of ways, and I think it’s great to speak your mind about the issues. I even smiled and chuckled to myself when I read your “loser” comments.
But, as you’ve discovered, comments like that don’t really help — they just distract from the real discussion.
Please do your part to help this silly controversy die. If you don’t want to apologize, at least stop talking about it. And, in the future, be mindful of how your comments will be taken and what effect that will have on your message.
I really think Stephane Dion provides an excellent example on this front. Maybe you should take his advice to heart.
Thanks, but I do nothing capriciously. — Garth
P.S. I can’t wait for your liberal trolls here to tell us that The Telegraph in the U.K. is a CPC biased rag…LOL
Correct me if I’m wrong folks – but wasn’t the UK Telegraph owned by Conrad Black?
Of course the National Post – also formerly owned by Conrad Black….sigh.
I wonder how many Albertans were former American citizens and/or born in the US, or parent were American.
Dear Garth,
Five months ago I came across your article in Globe & Mail in which you warned about the impending Real Estate Bubble burst in Canada.
I had some bad feelings about the state of our un-real estate for quite some time, but your article was the last piece of the puzzle for me.
I took your advice quite literally. I sold my Condo in Thornhill, On in March and rented the Townhouse. I put my money into the Money Market Fund (I hope, they will be safe there) and is currently digging in for at least 2 years of a trench war.
I expected things to start deteriorating throughout this Summer, but I couldn’t foresee that it would unfold so rapidly.
Thank you very much for your educating the Public. It is safe to say that You have saved quite a few households (whoever is willing to read, listen and analyze for themselves) from the disaster that is about to unfold.
Thank you very much and Good bless you…
With great respect,
Yuri
We know you love it. You’ve posted it twice in two days. Good media is hard to find. Too bad you had to go to Britain. — Garth
Garth, you have me confused with someone else. I have not posted this information before, anywhere.
Yes, I do love it. Love it very much. I love stirring the pot on this site. All I have to do is type the truth, a few well chosen words, five minutes work and the wild-eyed rabid liberal trolls will spend hours preparing their long tiresome diatribes and insults. It’s a hoot!
Another thing…no political leader anywhere believes in absolute free speech. Dion is not above the rest and you know it. If he were, you would not have been ‘chewed out’ for your opinion. True free speech would have been to say nothing and let your constituents decide at the polls whether they agree with you or not.
Mr. Dion is trying way too hard to ‘convince’ people that he is a nice guy…it rings hallow. For example; he took exception to Mr. Harper using the word ’screw’ and said he himself would ‘never say a vulgar word like that’. Come on Garth…is he a virgin to? If he walks down the streets of Anytown Canada, does he whither and get the vapours when he hears the actual ‘f’ word 157 times? He better be careful they sacrifice virgins you know.
Well, thanks for the good times, the fun, the laughs and special moments…but I have to get back to work.
Screwed in Canada. Leasa LOL
Separatism is a knee-jerk, small minded reaction by those who don’t understand the incredibly complex dynamics at play in any given polity. In the Canadian context, those complexities are rendered even more pronounced by language, first-nations considerations, regionalism and geography. As an aside, I find it laughable that countries like France and England have true regional differences. There is less in common between Anglia and Lancashire, or Provence and Alsace than there is between Ontario and BC. Yet no one in either country is braying about leaving. Maybe a succession of bloody revolutions will do that to you.
Back home, then: in the Quebec context, it’s a bit different, of course, given the Conquest and the very long history of semi-real but mostly perceived wrongs.
In the case of Alberta, it’s a very odd phenomena based on a misreading of the Constitution and what I have to assume is a willful misconception that they are a state in a union, rather than a province in confederation. It’s not even a case of “if you don’t like it, leave.” Rather, it’s a case of: if you don’t like it, work with your fellow provinces to change national policy. Doesn’t work? Well, instead of having your leadership killed off by a dictatorial central government, or some faction inside your own party, you get to try, try and try again. Then you get to try some more.
Welcome to Canada. Ain’t it beautiful?
P.S. I can’t wait for your liberal trolls here to tell us that The Telegraph in the U.K. is a CPC biased rag…LOL
Correct me if I’m wrong folks – but wasn’t the UK Telegraph owned by Conrad Black?
Of course the National Post – also formerly owned by Conrad Black….sigh.
I wonder how many Albertans were former American citizens and/or born in the US, or parent were American.
By slg on 07.08.08 12:51 pm
There is coffee all over my keyboard thanks to you, honestly I am laughing so hard…you actually did it…BWAAAA HA HA HA HAH A HA…
Garth,
We are trying to sell our cottage. It has been very slow.
Bought the property without a needing a mortgage and had the cottage built. We have owned it 25 years.
The Real Estate Sales agent suggest we drop the price, but why bother? If there is no one out there interested in cottages, how does dropping the price help?
We may be holding it for quite a number of years.
Oh well, i should have listed to my wife, she wanted to sell it about five years ago. She says the cottage is no more than a change of sinks for her.
I have a deep pity of you little person. For now on, when I am gonna think of an English Canadian, I will always think about you.
Canada is the hypocrisy pure, a oil tank for the USA, nothing more.
Vive le Québec lilbre, vive l’Alberta libre! And Ottawa, puck yourself!
That was useful. — Garth
The truly BRUTAL effects of GHG Heating will result in the DEATHS of Billions of human beings if not everyone. That includes you and your family!
By Greg W., Oakville on 07.08.08 12:27 pm
Greg, I’m a global warming denier. So whatever you have to say on the topic really isn’t going to affect what I think about the issue. But I suspect you aren’t trying to convince me. I suspect you are trying to get the message out to those who either don’t know or are on the fence.
I, like most people my age, have heard the alarm bells for decades. Ice age coming, global warming, world being destroyed, etc. We are still here and don’t really see a cause for concern. Even if there was proof of global warming caused by man made GHG, we couldn’t do anything about reversal in Canada anyway since we only produce 2% of the total gas.
Enough of that. I won’t convince you either. Thats fine. Here’s a suggestion for you though. When you give us the “billions will die” “maybe the whole world” stuff, it really doesn’t do much to sell your product.
The Suzukis of the world have been giving us the same doomsday fear agenda since he was invented. People haven’t bought into it. They won’t until someone comes along with a reasonable scenario and a reasonable solution. And Dion’s tax grab aint it.
Apologize for what Garth?Any vermin who wants to break this great country up deserves any title given to them.I’m glad my parents had an opportunity to emigrate to Canada back in 59′.Next year I’ll be celebrating 50 years of being a CANADIAN.I’ve almost forgotten the first 10 years of my life which were not spent here.You Sir, were very kind when you referred to these separists of all stripes as “LOSERS”.Long live the great NATION of CANADA with or without Quebec and or Alberta.
Folks like/before you have contributed in me being a seperatist.
Never since have I talked of being part of any country, certainly not yours.
“I have never visited Alberta, but I have made many trips to Quebec, love going there even though my French is limited. I have always felt welcomed and communication is not a great problem.”
“Give and take.” “I love this country–all of it. I would never want to see it divided. However, our strategies differ. I welcome ALL peoples and ideas.” “Let’s work on building Canada rather than tearing it apart.”
MARG 07.07.08 10:53 PM
· · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · ·
Hi Marg,
Our sentiments are in the right place, but the “give” in your “give and take” doesn’t work that way. In my half-dozen visits to Quebec in the 60s – 70s the anti-English abuse was enough. I am all for my sister province’s language, but there was no “give” except for me forgiving the french attitude of abusing of a polite, young kid’s attempted use of five years of french. They need a provincial hospitality course, or they need to get the chip off their shoulder and think, for once.
Canada is possibly the greatest country in the world [although not when Harper is done with us.]
Greedy pillagers are gleeful to have Canada torn apart, per history – no different in today’s scenario with a corporate lobbyist, dumb Harper, trying to regionalize us, dismantle our mechanisms which make us great – weakening us – which makes easy pickings for foreign raiding, as has been the case with Alberta.
Separatists anywhere are a quick-tempered foolish child – the kid who falls on the floor in a tantrum when they can’t hoard all the toys for themselves. In separatists, there is no “give and take” you mentioned. Garth is talking about separatists…and greed.
· · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · ·
Good people in Canada forget that greed is the enemy, and greed has a way of disguising itself.
My idea of a country is to stick together, compromise on all sides, educate the greedy children, and beware of greedy invaders, and those who conspire with them.
Harper doesn’t do any of that, and he doesn’t intend to – and that – is the problem.
I’m afraid you are just keeping on digging here, Garth. Too bad.
Jim Muldowney
Thanks, but I do nothing capriciously. — Garth
Garth … is there some reason you are not posting my comments on this topic thread?
Garth,
Thank you for standing up for Canada. It is a great country and it boggles me that some people would like to separate.
Although we are supposed to respect the separatists POV (by not calling them names for instance), I believe it will be their loss if they leave this greatest country on earth.
By the way, M. Dion is not a separatist. As Intergovernmental Affairs minister under Jean Chretien, he was tasked with challenging the Quebec separatist movement, which, resulted in Clarity Act and three letters sent to leaders of Quebec separatist movement challenging their point of view. He also organized and hosted the First International Conference on Federalism in Mont Tremblant in October 1999 to foster international support for the cause of federalism in Canada
Thank you and keep up the good work Garth.
P.S. I just recently found out about Victory Fund and I can’t tell you again how sorry I am not to live in your riding.
Grace
British Columbia is as different from Alberta, as the Yukon is to Newfoundland.
SJ on 07.07.08 10:57 pm
Other than taxes and Vancouver, Alberta and BC are twins. You should get out more.
By buddy, spare a dime? on 07.08.08 12:13 am
HAA! AH HAHAHAH! You MUST be joking! Buddy, have you LIVED in both? You must not have if you think that line is even REMOTELY true. BC and Alberta are VASTLY VASTLY different. We vote different, provincially, and federally, we have a MUCH different culture. Our way of live is vastly different. Man are you out to lunch. To me, BC and Alberta is black and white.
Perhaps you should drive PAST Revelstoke. You might see what I mean.
Janice: Then I guess youd don’t agree with the reformed denier, Harper?
He has grudgingly agreed that global warming is a problem. Unfortunately all his plans are obsolete.
By Greg W., Oakville on 07.08.08 12:27 pm
The time is running out to get it done, and there’s only time to do it right the first time, or else…
The truly BRUTAL effects of GHG Heating will result in the DEATHS of Billions of human beings if not everyone. That includes you and your family!
The information from a few years back indicates we need to already have started to make real GHG cuts by 2012! (Not by 2050, it way to late!)
And the latest science has shown that the rate of heating is going much fastest than any of the computer models predicted! (The best model thought the Artic might be ice-free by 2050. But it looks like it’ll be ice-free this summer!!! Are your alarm bells going off yet? They should be if your paying attention.)
The best science is telling us, if you are listening/informed critical-thinker, that 2010-2012 at the outside is the time we have left to be really start reducing GHG levels(not 2020 or 2050) back to below 1990 levels.
There is a so-called tipping point were the Heating will start a process of no return.
………………………………………………….
But Greg … Canada only contributes 2.3% of the world’s total GHGs, and if we met our Kyoto targets by 2012, it would only amount to a 0.7% net reduction to the world’s total GHG emissions. I hope you don’t feel that is a ‘tipping point’ amount that will plunge the entire planet into destruction …!!!!
You should be proud of our PM Harper at the G-8 conference and his success in bringing the USA and India on side to abide by Kyoto. Unfortunately, the world’s biggest GHG polluter, China, refuses to accept Kyoto and reduction in their massive GHG emissions.
You will also note that Dion’s Green Shift(page 16) admits that: Canada won’t meet its obligations under the first phase of the Kyoto Protocol. What do you think of Dion’s capitulation to Canada’s current 30% GHG excess ??
Yeah Garth it was Kieth Davey, a liberal senator who said ’screw the west’, and it was Marc LaLonde, a liberal cabinet minister who admitted the NEP was designed to damage Alberta.
But you refuse to admit that they were describing liberal policy.
It was the policy of the liberal party to screw the west to buy votes in the east and also the policy of the liberal party to stop Alberta from becoming too successful.
Those were liberal party policies, not the views of a couple of guys.
The liberals crow about unity but they act in an entirely different way.
That’s why they were going to impose Kyoto on the Alberta oil industry but not on Ontario’s auto industry.
That’s why they ranted about Alberta talking about private health care but did nothing about Quebec’s actual private health care.
The liberals demonize Alberta and steal money from us to convince the corrupt and dumb voters in central Canada to vote for them.
Here’s hoping it works again because NEP II will result in an independent Alberta.
And I’m fine with that.
It’s not my policy. — Garth
Leasa: So sad that the only positive sentences written about Harper are in a small foreign country. Wonder what he had to promise Brown to get it? Maybe an ethereal ambiguous statement at the G8 conference about targets by 2050–(what targets, whose targets, where’s the plan?)
“All I have to do is type the truth …”
When are you going to start, Leasa? Your non-partisan conscience would love it!
By Stan on 07.08.08 12:14 pm
Dear Stan
I remember the 80’s too and worked for an oil company here in BC. I think at one point our mortgage interest rate was 17%. We lost the house and under the strain lost a marriage.
My recollection is most of the country went into a recession not just Alberta. Since we are not an oil and gas province can you explain why BC experienced the same problem?
Trudeau was the architect of deficit financing and that’s why I never voted for him. But Trudeau is not leading this Liberal party.
Hello, I feel like we are in some sort Monty Python skit. This man is dead!
Paul Martin is not the Liberal leader. Jean Cretien is retired.
What do you want? Should we just ignore GHG emissions and maintain business as usual?
You do realize if we wait until 2050 we are past the tipping point – way past by 30 years.
Help me understand, what you want to do rather than the Green Shift plan?
Two different commentators have now upped the ante from Turner’s “Loser” to describing Separatists as “vermin.”
In the normal course of events, Garth will respond that “this is a free speech zone.” This despite the fact that he edits and deletes comments, freely and often, when it suits him to do so. So the fact that he accepts “vermin” as a suitable descriptor of other human beings is not due to any dedication to the principles of free speech. In his judgment, this kind of vilification is not just acceptable but actively endorsed by the fact that he posted one instance under his own name when it was (presumably) emailed to him.
I am very dedicated to free speech almost to the point of being an absolutist on the topic. But favouring free speech does not mean you remain neutral on what is said. I find it alarming and distressing that people are calling other people “vermin” in a public discussion… particularly one being hosted by a sitting Liberal MP… and yet not one person speaks up to object.
What is wrong with us? What, Mr. Turner, is wrong with you?
Good on you Garth.
Keep the faith.
ALL those losers that can’t hack your “Truth” are just that.
Losers
And many of them demonstrate by their posts just what losers they are by blindly following a PROVEN LIAR. PMSH!
The Suzukis of the world have been giving us the same doomsday fear agenda since he was invented. People haven’t bought into it.
By Janice on 07.08.08 1:07 pm
It appears that representatives of the G8 also don’t buy into it. So as long as THEY don’t, Janice won’t. You’re like monkey see, monkey do. The so-called leadership of the industrialised world continue to prove their belief that people are uneducated. So they commit to a plan that they will never personally fulfil and for this they will some day retire on a nice pension. In the meantime, no specific base line has been identified for comparison purposes for the simple reason that THEY don’t want to be held accountable for it’s inevitable failure. Their only accomplishment is that they will remain as true representatives of the corp elite and their best interests.
BTW who invented Suzuki?
“Rock on, Garth” by Esther Shaye 07/07 11:00PM
Esther,
When you post, people listen.
Humans naturally check to confirm if instincts are correct. Thanks for confirmation — a great verifier to have those closest to someone speak up, to reassure us we got it right.
Your post is worth re-reading. Rock on, Esther.
Good to apologize when you did the wrong thing while trying to do the right thing.
By John on 07.08.08 1:03 pm
I do not know if your cottage is in the Muskoka,. but my advise would be to unload it asap and take what you can get that is reasonable. The District of Muskoka, under Lord Gord Adams (our unelected Chariman of the District) is raising taxes again, and again, and if you have clear title consider it a blessing. (PS: Read the online local papers on the tax issues.)
The BIG Corps are moving in here with new Mega-Developments for the Yuppie set. They are doing the Time Share ownership trip, so that is also having an effect on sales. Muskoka is becoming Canada’s Aspen.
Add to that the cost of fuel to get there and back, and it is fast becoming a very expensive ’sink swap’ as your wife quite correctly calls it for many. LOL
“That was useful. — Garth”
And what about your diatribe against Separatists? I guess it was useful moron?
“Cons’s buttock, Garth “hole” Turner and Libs’buttock”.
What about this? A bit more useful donkey face?
As you’ll be kicked out of causus by the end of the summer, I guess becoming a Green MP is starting to look pretty good.
Stephane? Is that you? — Garth
By Volks Lad on 07.08.08 12:35 pm
ROFLMAO Garth thank you for the best laugh I have had so far today. Haven’t watched my latest “Just for Laughs Gags”
yet.
I love your sense of humor. A good sense of humor indicates intelligence I am told.
Of course, given I have “Sometimers” I can’t tell you who told me:>)
Hope you had a great walk.
I’m puzzled, Garth. It is not like you to back down. Did your party leader tell you to apologize?
Along a similar vein – I am quite surprised by your touting of the Liberal’s new tax plan. You are normally so analytical and critical but you are praising the plan and the leader. What brought about this change? I do not believe, for one minute, that you personally believe in the Liberals new tax plan – when Dion was against a carbon tax, you supported him. Now that he wants to add taxes to our burden, you support him.
Something doesn’t ring true, here. Who are you and what did you do with the real Garth Turner? I don’t think Garth’s constituents for whom he speaks are in favour of an added tax. You are not Garth Turner – you are a substitute for the real Garth Turner. Bring back the real Garth.
It’s a tax shift, not an added tax. My constituents would love an income tax cut. — Garth
… for opposing those who put self interests before Canada … I regret nothing.
Are you goint start opposing yourself?
Set out an expensive carbon tax, offset it with income tax breaks, and lets see what happens!
By Joe in NB on 07.08.08 8:41 am
Hey Joe, lets say that over the 4 year period Dion raises the $15B in carbon tax that he projects and then lowers income taxes correspondingly.
Lets say the carbon tax has the required affect and thus industry develops new green technology and GHG emissions decline. As emissions decline so will the tax revenue on carbon decline.
It would be unrealistic to assume that prices will fall as there would have been substantial investment in transforming how industry conducts business.
So with declining revenue from carbon tax, higher prices for consumers, will Dion raise income taxes again in order to offset the declining carbon tax?
Won’t that kinda be a double whammy? Higher prices and higher taxes?
Can it go any other way?
.S. I can’t wait for your liberal trolls here to tell us that The Telegraph in the U.K. is a CPC biased rag…LOL
We know you love it. You’ve posted it twice in two days. Good media is hard to find. Too bad you had to go to Britain. — Garth
By Leasa on 07.08.08 10:11 am
Hi Leasa,
hope you didn’t have to wait too long…. but you almost hit it right on the head.
Originating from the UK, I know that the Daily Telegraph is a bastion for the conservative element. But I’ll bet they’ll ask just what is the CPC, as they don’t run candidates in the UK?
That would be the UK. Conservative Party, not the CPC!
For a balanced view, try the Independant!
Garth,
Thanx, not for the apology, but the great expose on the level of comprehension and debate in Canada, our home and naive land!
Your original comments did not even raise one whisker of alarm or caution in my sub conscience, nor did it within others that I know.
What you have done, by design, is to elicit the true picture of how ill informed and ill mannered a portion of our nation has become.
This predicament has not developed over night, but has been growing over many decades. It partly due to our “dummed” down education system, the growing lack of parental guidance of their children’s development, and religious/political intolerance fostered by the very organizations that profess to teach ethics and tolerance!
Separatism is not a serious factor in Canada as much opinion polling and elections have proven if you comprehend the simple math!
Travel, while expensive, is the greatest equalizer and educator. I’m not talking about the tourist style of travel, but the workaday type where you live and sweat amongst the real bread winners.
For someone to suggest that you will learn what an Albertan thinks, knows and feels, by just traveling there is just dreaming in “techni-color”! Most of the original “Wild Rose” homesteaders are too modest to talk outside of family or have already passed on. I recall some of my father’s stories about life on the homestead North of Dewberry. The one about when an early snowfall covered the sheaves of grain in the fields and he had to loan his boots to his sister so she could help stook while he did likewise in his sock feet because Granddad was flat on his back recovering from a heart attack! Or you will never know the kind of hard times like the blizzard of 1908 which froze all the herds of cattle in Southern Alta., not to be found until the Spring thaws of ‘09 the year Dad was born in the “driving shed” because the house was still being built!
You try to tell me that these Johnny Come Latelys want to separate. They don’t know what they are talking about.
Likewise, the Quebecois are not going to separate since they know what would happen. Even if they could, the economic boycott would be worse than the Depression was.
If any of the YES WE CANs have any sense at all, they will realize just how quick the USMC will arrive and “quieten down” the economic colony! Your so called Alberta Oil rights were sold out long ago and are now being collected! Just wake up and smell the aroma fast before you choke on it!
Yes I have traveled for 14 years driving semi in 5 provinces and 45 of the 48 contiguous states. I have eaten at truckers meal bars in each of these as I lived on the road. Canadians have changed over the years, yet remain different, but so similar to Americans. The levels of cultural buy in to the corporate and political advertising come ons/deceptions is really astounding. (All advertising has some hidden mis-truths)
As wee Robbie Burns wrote, it is so true that we cannot see ourselves as others see us.
For those posters who complain about the state of politics in Canada, remember you get the government that you deserve, plus if we got all the government we pay for we could not stand it! Time to do some serious self soul searching, mes amis!
Wake up and demand a Primary Election System like the Americans have but more fairly designed so that We the People are given a choice of who truly represents our interests in the party of our choice! It won’t make Canada a (“bananaless”) republic, but it will produce more responsible government.
Before trouble with regulators and investors, Black controlled Hollinger International, Inc. Through affiliates, the company published important newspapers including Daily Telegraph, Chicago Sun Times, Jerusalem Post, National Post and hundreds of community newspapers in North America.
…..just as I thought. Also, 61% of the readers of the Telegraph are conservatives…so there, that’s settled.
Lawrence ON – Dion was a separatists for a very short period in defiance of his father – Harper’s been a Liberal, a Conservative, a Reformer, Alliance and now the “pretend” Conservative meaning he’s a Republican pretending to be Reformer ——– in sheeps clothing as they say. By the way Lawrence, why is it you spend your day trying to tell people off? What a waste of time – like the little naggy blue haired lady in the neighbourhood.
And, they “cry” Liberal media bias – right:
Growth and divestment of press holdings
In 1985, Andrew Knight, then editor of The Economist, asked Black to invest in the ailing Telegraph Group. By this investment, Black made his first entry into British press ownership. Five years later, he bought the Jerusalem Post, and subsequently fired the majority of its staff.[12] By 1990, his companies ran over 400 newspaper titles in North America, the preponderance of them small community papers.
Hollinger bought a minority stake in the Southam newspaper chain in 1993 and acquired the Chicago Sun Times in 1994. Hollinger International shares were listed on New York Stock Exchange in 1996, at which time the company boosted its stake in Southam to a control position. Becoming a public company trading in the U.S. has been called “a fateful move, exposing Black’s empire to America’s more rigorous regulatory regime and its more aggressive institutional shareholders.”[9]
Under Black, Hollinger launched the National Post in Toronto in 1998. From 1999 to 2000 Hollinger International sold several newspapers in five deals worth a total of US$679-million, a total that included millions of dollars in “non-compete agreements” for Hollinger insiders. Later in the year, Hollinger International announced the sale of thirteen major Canadian newspapers, 126 community newspapers, internet properties and half of the National Post to CanWest Global Communications Corp. Hollinger International sold the rest of the National Post to CanWest in the summer of 2001.
…don’t forget the Sun chain – conservative to the hilt.
Cry me a river CPC supporters.
Leasa said, I love stirring the pot on this site. All I have to do is type the truth, a few well chosen words, five minutes work and the wild-eyed rabid liberal trolls will spend hours preparing their long tiresome diatribes and insults. It’s a hoot!
By Leasa on 07.08.08 12:56 pm
Are you trying to be funny Leasa? You mean you really practice a little humor? Could have fooled me dear. Btw, just thought I’d point this little mis-print you made. I know you meant to say lies instead of truth but we’ll forgive you this time.
So Leasa dear, Thanks for the good times, the fun, the laughs and special moments…but I have to get back to work.
Have a productive day on that imaginary farm Leasa.
Regards, by Screwed in Canada by the Alliance/Reform/CPC & their brainwashed followers.
Here, here, for free speech;
- – - as long as you don’t actually tell it like it is!!
Hey Garth,
I cannot name another politician that has done more to validify my mistrust of all politicians and their motives.
You are the shining example of everything that is wrong with politics and why everyday people are not willing to become involved.
Congratulations, you are the posterboy of the least respected group of all Canadian professions.
What goes around comes around.
Thank you. Your contribution has also been impressive. — Garth
By James R. McGillawee on 07.08.08 2:46 pm
How right you are about the USMC coming in.
Excellent and very informative comment for those unhfamiliar with reality outside of Canada.
I might add that we do have a big advantage over the American system in that we have a No-Confidence ability which they do not, short of impeachment, which is rare and very difficult to achieve.
Our biggest problem is First Past The Post and the Party leader automatically becoming the Prime Minister. The NWT allows the elected MLA’s to select the most qualified as Premiere, so should we as a nation.
Janice: Then I guess youd don’t agree with the reformed denier, Harper?
He has grudgingly agreed that global warming is a problem. Unfortunately all his plans are obsolete.
By Judy on 07.08.08 1:33 pm
Thats right, I don’t agree with him. I think he has caved in to extremism.
One thing I do agree with though, if we are expected to reduce GHG emissions then the rest of the world had better do like wise.
“I saw Mr. Dion at the town hall last night. He never fails to impress with his respect for others’ opinions. When people, try to goad him into taking a cheap shot at his opponents, he always responds with a polite, thoughtful comment instead. He has a level of patience that the rest of us can only aspire to. His approach, rather than name-calling, is the way to get a message out.
By Mel on 07.08.08 10:13 am”
Mel, you just witnessed a REAL leader in action. Wish I was there too.
It’s a tax shift, not an added tax. My constituents would love an income tax cut. — Garth
…………………….
But, Garth … Canadians don’t believe Dion when he promises to cut income taxes, and they certainly don’t want Dion’s carbon tax either.
How do you reconcile that conundrum facing Dion trying to ’sell’ his Green Shift scheme..??!!
The Suzukis of the world have been giving us the same doomsday fear agenda since he was invented. People haven’t bought into it.
By Janice on 07.08.08 1:07 pm
It appears that representatives of the G8 also don’t buy into it. So as long as THEY don’t, Janice won’t.
BTW who invented Suzuki?
By Ron p on 07.08.08 1:54 pm
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Ron. I don’t care what the G8 boys and lady do. I don’t care if they buy into the global warming myth or not. I won’t be following them. So don’t lump me in with them.
And you have a very good question. Where did Suzuki come from? What makes him an expert on climate change? He’s a zoologist. I guess he has the same qualifications as Gore. You know, the guy that invented the internet but doesn’t know how to open his email.
By Janice on 07.08.08 1:07 pm
So essentially, what you are saying is that 1400 victims of West Nile Virus in Saskachewan alone last year didn’t happen and it will never happen to you.
Close to 20% of B.C.’s forests being decimated by the pine beetle didn’t happen.
The artic, antartic, Greenland and glacial melts, not happening according to Janice.
Ocean currents slowing down by 30% over 30 years, didn’t happen according to Janice.
Ocean acidification destroying 20% of the worlds coral reefs, not happening.
Damaged ozone, didn’t happen.
Increased levels of C02 by man doesn’t lead to climate change, isn’t happening according to Janice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
All the science is bunk, their doing it “just for the money”, Janice has the answer, she/he/it has got it all figured out, global warming/climate change isn’t happening!
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/climatechange/
And naturally CBC news media is corrupt and must be sold according to Janice. (oh, and so is CTV, ABC, CNN and anyone else who reports worthy news, they should be sold too I guess, cause we all know global warming/climate change is a hoax according to Janice! And people dont’ believe it according to…
Janice.
Please, I dare you, double, triple, quadruple dare you, whoever you are to prove to us with your own “science” why we should believe you over sources that are (don’t mean to offend, but) far, far, far more credible.
As always, awaiting your brilliant reply.
There seems to be constant threats by some as to the separation of Quebec and Alberta by some folks on this blog. I have no problem with that as long as two conditions are met.
1. They have the majority of the population of each province.
2. The terms of separation will be those negotiated or dictated by the federal government. If these terms are not met, then a vote must be taken in the rest of Canada to allow them to separate.
This seems reasonable to me….are those of you in favour of separation in agreement with this?
WW from the KDC are a little offbeat today; everyone goes through this experience, at any time, any place, anywhere and in any circumstance, so each of us may as well enjoy it:
“If I could drop dead right now, I’d be the happiest man alive.” — Samuel Goldwyn
Other than it is a gorgeously delightful experience, to prove the reality of the continuation of life to oneself, to be ‘floating’ somewhere I venture to say that Goldwyn already knew what this particular experience was like, otherwise he would not have said this in the first place!
****************************************
One thing I have noticed re: the comments on separation, referring to Quebec and Alberta as ’separatists’.
It is not so much the people — there will always be the minority who scream and shout ‘let’s go solo’; it IS harpo’s ultimate dream to divvy Canada up into 13 equal portions, so dubya’s dorks can cherry-pick which pieces THEY want, and discard the rest.
Remember harpo’s quote to the effect of:
“. . . you won’t even recognize Canada by the time I’m done with it . . .”
Except CRAP does not now, and never will have a majority.
If the Cdn. banking system falls under US control, what is happening down there will almost immediately happen here.
****************************************
PYOTR PETROBITCH, 6:56 am
Nice cartoon, Pyotr — as I said before, let us all eat cake!
Besides, one CP report today says “Stagflation fears growing — New surveys point to higher risk of growth (decreasing) and inflation woes (increasing).
I mentioned several posts ago that hidden inflation is running rampant around 15%, yet the msm reports ‘inceasing slightly at three or four per cent’. About time they had a reality check.
Akin to stretching an elastic band further and further apart, then knowing first hand what the experience is like when the band breaks, although most don’t even recognize that simple fact, haven’t bothered to prepare themselves.
For instance, another CP report has the heading “Deals on SUVs just too good to pass up for some — Gas guzzlers may be frowned upon in these days of soaring fuel prices and concern over climate change, but discounts appeal to bargain-hunters”
A couple drove from London, Ont. to grab a deal just over the border; bought an Explorer for $18,000 after taxes, saving $12,000 on the original price, and there are many others who do the same.
Is the Green strategy a pointless exercise in futility? Well, unlike CRAP who wants to sell us off to the US (witness the IT deception) at a dirt cheap price, I would rather take a chance on Dion’s plan.
May make a difference, may not. At least there will be a Canada, though.
With CRAP, no chance — we’ll have bought the big one, and be owned by big US business.
TOOBADSOSAD,
Anyone who wants to be part of the problem, not the solution, is foolish. History didn’t stop, it’s ongoing. If you looked around at the big picture, you’d realize that freedom has to be hard fought for, but those who learn how to stick together, are the only ones who prosper. Those who would divide cannot see beyond their own noses.
Divided people get taken over, and if you’d like to see how fast your natural resources are pillaged as a weaker nation, then count yourself in as part of the problem, not part of the solution.
I really wish Albertans would stop thinking that they speak for “the West”! As someone else has said, they don’t speak for us. The West is not a cohesive unit. BC has nothing, absolutely nothing in common with Alberta except for our geographical location. It’s like the differences between California and Texas. Albertans often say “the West” when they really mean just some Albertans to try and give themselves more legitimacy. Seriously guys, stop acting like you are the spokesman for all of us!
Garth, you have nothing to apologize for. Mr Dion voiced his reaction just to distance himself from your remarks. He might even agree with you on some level.
If Harper’s 124 MPs were permitted to have a Blog like yours the racist, separatist remarks and statements would make yours look like a speck of dust.
I know you don’t worry about any repercussions from those holier than thou right wingers. You handled your mea culpa with humor and perhaps a bit of sarcasm and is OK by me.
Stephane Dion is lucky and happy to have you to say some of the things he cannot say without losing his diplomacy.
If Separatists don’t like to be called losers (rightly so)… how about Teasonists? That is the correct and proper term for one who wants to split off territory from a country, no?
Bonnie, the liberals admitted that the NEP was designed to hurt Alberta’s economy.
This new NEP is skewed so it will affect the west the most. Dion has admitted that.
It’s not revenue neutral, and it takes money from the west to buy votes with in the east.
That is divisive.
Raising the price of carbon in Canada will make Canadian industry less competitive with China. It will have the same effect as Kyoto would: it would drive industry from countries with relatively clean industry to countries with relatively dirty industry.
In other words it would shut down the clean factories in Canada and the production would move to the dirty factories in China.
And there would be the added pollution from shipping raw materials there and shipping finished products back.
Harper wants all the countries to pay the same price for being environmentally clean so that the production doesn’t just move to the unregulated countries.
Us knuckle draggers on the right understand that shutting down clean industry in Canada and moving the production to dirty industry in China plus polluting a bunch more when transporting makes no sense.
It will result in more pollution not less.
Now Bonnie if you are like me and have carefully studied the claims of the IPCC and Gore and Suzuki, you will see that 99% of the C02 thing is bogus. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t fight pollution, but if we are going to fight real pollution, let’s do it in a way that reduces it by including all polluters, not in a way that increases it by exempting most polluters.
Kyoto and this new Green Shaft will result in increased pollution.
Garth was more effective MP when he was a Independent MP then being a sheepish seal member of a Party.
Garth made an Apology but next time you probably be kicked out from the Liberal Party if you post more of your views that offends the lackeys of Liberal Party just like when you offended the sensibilities of the NeoCon party.
Overall, Political Parties are just useless !! They make their members behave like Zombies ..Obey what the Leader/Party says or be kicked out!
There is no chance for independent thought in Parliament when MP’s can’t say what they wish to say. Democracy?? Freedom of Speech ?? Yeah Right
Former Prime Minister, Pierre Trudeau, referred to federal backbenchers in the Liberal party as “trained seals.” As well he once referred to oppositioin backbenchers as “nobodies when they are 50 yards away from the House of Commons.”
Political Parties are like those stalinist Human Non Rights Commissions undermining individuals their fundamental right of Free Speech!
Garth how do u like eating crow? Makes u feel all warm and Fuzzy being part of a political party system. Mmmmmmmm
Yeah, right. I have been trying so hard to please the party lackeys. — Garth
Garth … is there some reason you are not posting my comments on this topic thread?
By Harry S on 07.08.08 1:17 pm
Just maybe because you are an admitted terrorist….?
Could one of those finned thingies be dropped on Stornoway and not damage the neighbours .. and that would solve the Liberal leadershit problems ..!!!!
BY HARRY S ON 05.16.08 1:26 AM
Dang, I meant Treasonists, of course
Loonie undervalued and should rise soon: experts
I still laugh at the Doom and Gloom set who think our Loonie being at or above par is a bad thing for Canadians. Do any of them ever realize that we pay HIGHER PRICES for many goods and food stuffs when the Greenback is worth more than our’s?
Why do people go to the U.S. for the bargains? DUH!
Time to try innovation and quality. That built America’s reputation as a source of good products, well except for American made cars.
Seems KIA (The motor car maker, not Killed In Action) has taken Ford’s ideas and produced an engine that dies at 100,000 kms. Great, now KIA means the same thing for the owners.
Remember the Ford (Found On Road Dead/Fix Or Repair Daily) Three Year cars? Yes Sir, at three years they literally started falling apart from the de-engineering that Ford did.
So, anyone wonder why Italian made Fiat (Fix It Again Tony) have never become popular? LOL
Canadians need Canadian made vehicles. When will that happen?
Yes, Garth, your constituents would love an income tax cut. You forgot to mention how they would feel about having an added tax on natural gas to heat their homes, an added tax on fuel for their cars, an added tax on anything which smacks of fossil fuel. You folks keep forgetting to mention that. It is an added tax, Garth – we already GST on fuels and this will only add to it. I am willing to bet the farm that I will end up revenue negative – and I only earn 52k per year. What did McGuinty say? This health premium is not a tax – in the end he had to confess that it is a new tax and that it is not directed toward the health care system. Sorry, Garth, I think you’ve been substituted.
My last post should have read Treasonists… Though Teasonists is maybe approriate too since most separatists have no intentiion of actually leaving the Federation of Canada
Leasa said, I love stirring the pot on this site. All I have to do is type the truth, a few well chosen words, five minutes work and the wild-eyed rabid liberal trolls will spend hours preparing their long tiresome diatribes and insults. It’s a hoot!
By Leasa on 07.08.08 12:56 pm
So much for “JOIN CANADIANS IN CONVERSATION WITH GARTH”
Would love to read your extensive work on other blogs unless of course this is the only blog that allows you squeak.
Albertans ranked the highest with an average of 9.34 ranking. The highest in the country!
Canada Yes Succession No
By Bonnie N BC on 07.08.08 11:35 am
Thank you Bonnie for adding some FACTS and truth for the delusional separatists to chew on.
By James R. McGillawee on 07.08.08 2:46 pm
My great grandfather came to Alberta from the NWT in about 1860 and your stories reminded me of many that we shared around our family table down through the years.
Thanks for sharing a little of the real Alberta “can do” spirit.
I think of the 88 Olympics and all the community volunteerism we do here in ALberta. The spirit of 67 when the Calgary Tower was built.
Thanks folks for standing proud with me today and sharing the love we feel for our “wild rose” Province in the country called Canada.
“Oh well, i should have listed to my wife, she wanted to sell it about five years ago. She says the cottage is no more than a change of sinks for her.”
By John on 07.08.08 1:03 pm
—–
That is absolutely brilliant. Congrats to your wife for that.
Reminds me of something Homer Simpson said to Marge about why she wasn’t interested in going on a particular family vacation.
I paraphrase:
“But Marge! Why don’t you want to go and take care of all of us all in a place that’s a lot less convenient for you?”
Let’s see, BC has it Carbon Tax (poor buggers), Alberta has its GHG Technology Fund, Saskatchewan has its sequestration program, Manitoba no plan (as far as I know), Ontario — no plan, Quebec — no plan (except between them some vague cap’n'trade program), the east coast, nothing that I heard of.
So it would appear that the provinces (and it is those ’selfish’ western ones at that) are the only ones doing something REAL about GHG:
“$2 billion invested in carbon capture and storage; $2 billion in public transit
Calgary… The Alberta government is surging ahead on its climate change action plan with two new funds totaling $4 billion to reduce greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions equal to taking more than a million cars off the road each year.
The province will create a $2-billion fund to advance carbon capture and storage (CCS) projects while a second $2-billion fund will propel energy-saving public transit in Alberta.
“We’re tackling both sides of the emissions challenge on behalf of Albertans and all Canadians,” said Premier Ed Stelmach. “We’re reducing the impact of industrial emissions with carbon capture and storage and investing in public transit to reduce the impact from our tailpipes.”
Stelmach said while other jurisdictions talk, his government’s Climate Change Strategy has legislated real targets and real action. “With this announcement we will continue to demonstrate leadership and encourage the federal government and Alberta industries to make real investments in carbon capture and storage.”
Funds will be allocated to encourage construction of Alberta’s first large-scale CCS projects. The province has issued a request for expressions of interest to begin identifying those CCS proposals with the greatest potential of being built quickly and those which provide the best opportunities to significantly reduce greenhouse gas emissions. With the potential to reduce emissions at facilities such as coal-fired electricity plants and oil sands extraction sites and upgraders, the $2-billion fund will support CCS projects that are expected to reduce emissions by up to five million tonnes annually. That is the equivalent of taking a million vehicles off the road, or one-third of all vehicles registered in Alberta.
In addition, the equivalent of thousands more Alberta vehicles will be taken off streets and highways through $2 billion in public transit investments. The Green Transit Incentives Program (Green TRIP) will promote the use of local, regional and inter-city public transit. The program will support new public transit alternatives throughout the province that will significantly reduce the number of vehicles on Alberta roads and reduce GHG emissions.
Funds for the two initiatives will come from this year’s surplus, which the province expects will be significantly larger than predicted due to higher-than-forecast oil and gas prices.
Alberta’s Climate Change Action Plan, which will cut projected GHG emissions in half by 2050, is based on three key areas: carbon capture and storage; energy conservation and efficiency; and greening energy production.”
A plan to actually REDUCE GHG, not just to transfer our money to the east.
Ed the Hun
By Bill-Muskoka on 07.08.08 5:01 pm
Hopefully the Kia buyers get rear window defrosters included to keep their hands warm when pushing their cars home in a cold Canadian winter day.
Innisfail in the New Peoples Republic of Alberta
Have a flag yet, Bob? — Garth
By Bob on 07.08.08 10:57 am
….yes he has – it’s the 51st star on the American flag.
Hi Leasa,
hope you didn’t have to wait too long…. but you almost hit it right on the head.
Originating from the UK, I know that the Daily Telegraph is a bastion for the conservative element. But I’ll bet they’ll ask just what is the CPC, as they don’t run candidates in the UK?
That would be the UK. Conservative Party, not the CPC!
For a balanced view, try the Independant!
By James- Chatham on 07.08.08 2:40 pm
Yup – the Conservative leader in the UK – David Cameron – who talks just like Harper – you know why? Becuase he uses Frank Luntz as a strategist as well. Of course the conservative Telegraph in the UK is going to use every opportunity to promote neo-conservatism – they all use Frank Luntz.
One thing I do agree with though, if we are expected to reduce GHG emissions then the rest of the world had better do like wise.
By Janice on 07.08.08 3:46 pm
So – do you want to lead or follow?
Way back before 1867, John A. Macdonald and Wilfred Laurier proposed the idea of confederation to their provinces and several of the Maritime provinces for one reason.
They knew if they didn’t, they would be swallowed up by the U.S. in their thirst to control the entire continent, their manifest destiny.
To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin (I think):
“Gentlemen, we must all hang together lest we hand separately.”
I lived in Montreal when the FLQ were putting bombs in mailboxes and blowing up postmen (federal employees) and other innocents.
I was a student when James Cross was kidnapped by one FLQ cell, and Pierre Laporte was kidnapped and murdered by another one. I remember the usually busy thoroughfare of Cote-des-Neiges was completely empty of people after the body of the murdered cabinet minister was found.
I remember soldiers patrolling the streets and guarding the embassies.
I remember companies fleeing the province and setting up in Toronto, turning Montreal into the #2 city.
I remember families being torn apart, language rights being taken away, and pointy-eyed little bigots insisting that only their language and their race could be tolerated in Quebec.
I remember elderly people being frightened that they could not stay although it would also be frightening for them to leave.
I remember the 1995 referendum, with the PQ “invigilators” throwing out any votes that went against their cause.
I remember pro-separatist ridings that had near-100% turn-out, including the terminally ill, the mad, the incapable and even in some cases, the dead, who were so enthused about voting for separatism that they actully rose from their graves to vote.
Je me souviens.
Dion made sure that that kind of crookery could never be carried out in this country again – a clear question and an understanding of the consequences, and for that all of us should be thankful that the process could never again be highjacked by a bunch of crooks.
Mr. Turner
As an Albertan I find your remarks about us as offensive. You say you apologize…yet you also note you have a history
of “misspeaking”. You wonder why people out west figure we could separate; what makes loud mouths like yourself
put us down because we don’t want to follow dictatorial governments in the “central” area of Canada, telling us what we
can or can’t do. Do we tell you to quit the crying over lost jobs in the manufacturing business. No, we even have jobfairs
down there to help people get jobs.
I have a suggestion….you don’t seem to be able to hold your tongue or think before you ramble off, so get out of politics.
Good luck with your life.
Naomi B.
Calgary, Alberta and darn proud of it.
Sorry, typo.
“We must all hang together,” Franklin said, “or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.”
A plan to actually REDUCE GHG, not just to transfer our money to the east.
Ed the Hun
By Ed the Hun on 07.08.08 5:58 pm
Ed, read this from the Canadian Business Online.
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/columnis
ts/joe_castaldo/article.jsp?content=20080205_153921_5392
I’d like to start by just thanking you for being yourself. I have been a follower of politics much more closely since Mr. Harper’s questionable success in the last federal election. I fear for the future of Canada and Canadians under the Conservative gov’t. The changes this “gang” are making in Ottawa stink of Republican Policy makers and advisors. In my opinion, Conservatives are THE Seperatist Losers to fear in Canada!
As for Alberta being lumped in with the seperatist losers….couldn’t agree more. I have seen literally hundreds of Albertans comment on news blogs indicating the rest of Canada basically sucks the life out of their economy, fills their province with “undesirables”,etc., etc..
Reminds me of the old Richie Rich comics….”Poor Little Rich Kid”. Just check out the editorials of this past Sunday’s Edmonton Sun in which one Superior Albertan tells all the Crack-Heads to go “Back to Saskatchewan” because the economy is booming there. “Back to Saskatchewan?” Very neighborly indeed.
On a side note, there is also an interesting poll in the same paper indicating the Tories are tops in Trust in Canada. Haven’t seen the same poll published anywhere outside Nazi-Alberta though…more propaganda I hope.
In closing Mr. Turner, I’d just like to say I have huge respect for you as a politician and a Canadian. I read your blog daily and learn more about Canadian politics there than all the news sites combined. You speak with intelligence and conviction and I TRUST you! Yes I said TRUST. Keep up the superior work. Canada needs more like you!! Thank You!
Sincerely,
J. R. M.
Saskatoon, SK
By jwp on 07.08.08 4:54 pm
Garth … is there some reason you are not posting my comments on this topic thread?
By Harry S on 07.08.08 1:17 pm
Just maybe because you are an admitted terrorist….?
Could one of those finned thingies be dropped on Stornoway and not damage the neighbours .. and that would solve the Liberal leadershit problems ..!!!!
BY HARRY S ON 05.16.08 1:26 AM
………………………………..
I luv ya jwp … keep on truckin’ ..LOL
Ed, read this from the Canadian Business Online.
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/columnists/joe_castaldo/article.jsp?content=20080205_153921_5392
Which province has the most wind generated electricity? Evil old carbon spewing Alberta or one of the other, ‘good’ provinces?
It’s Alberta of course.
By Stan on 07.08.08 4:46 pm
Since your new to the blog, I repost this repost of some questions on how the west is “Screwed” so I (a dumb easterner) can understand:
————————————-
Since no Conservative supporter responded to my question yesterday – I am reposting it
——–
1) I thought the complaint was that the producers were just going to tack the green tax onto their goods. If that’s the case, and the industry will be taxed $6 B – won’t they just pass that $6 B onto the consumer? So if their costs go up $6B, and their price to us goes up $6B – how is $6B going to be “lost” by Sask and Alberta?
2) Let’s say the producers aren’t going to tack the $6B onto their price, and just take the hit – this hit would be after income taxes – so how does that cost the provincial governments, if there income lines aren’t dropping?
As far as I can see – there is no cost to the provincial income line from this green shift, so the provinces aren’t out. As it’s only a 2.6% increase to their bottom lines, I don’t see massive layoffs of people, so the people will be keeping thier jobs. As I understand, this $6B would reduce corporate earnings (where most are foreign owned – so the capital isn’t staying in the provinces in question) or shareholder earnings (see parathensis above). As the $6 billion is NOT coming out of the Provinces pockets, nor the population’s pockets – please explain how this is screwing the people of Alberta and Saskatchewan?
Also – as I asked a couple of days ago, it seems the Conservatives are leaning towards a Cap and Trade system – please explain to me the benefits of this system over the proposed Liberal system.
By Tim N on 07.02.08 11:28 am
By Tim N on 07.03.08 9:20 am
Tuesday, July 8, 2008
Why am I reminded of Linda Keen?
Federal biologist loses job in dispute over leaked memo
Why am I reminded of Linda Keen?……it seems the Harper government doesn’t share my views on the need for public safety, in whatever form. food inspection, nuclear safety, Maxine Bernier’s dossiers.
At least we can be comforted to know that the US Air Force will be patrolling the 2010 Vancouver Winter Olympics.
Documents appear to involve a significant revamping of food inspection
Canwest News Service Published: Tuesday, July 08, 2008
Federal biologist loses job in dispute over leaked memo
Canwest News Service Published: Tuesday, July 08, 2008
OTTAWA – A federal scientist was fired after distributing classified documents he found improperly posted on the Canadian Food Inspection Agency’s server outlining plans to turn over more inspections to the food industry.
Luc Pomerleau, a biologist who worked for the federal government for 20 years with an “unblemished record” was fired last week for giving the document to his union, The Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada.
The documents appear to involve a significant revamping of food inspection that will shift more of the onus for food safety to the suppliers that manufacture and distribute food and other products. The changes are part of the government’s strategic review, which requires departments to find savings worth 5% of their operating budgets that can be reallocated to the Harper government’s priorities.
Union president Michele Demers said Pomerleau is a scapegoat and his firing is an over-reaction.
She argued the breach was caused by whoever improperly scanned those documents and then left them on the agency’s server.
“The obvious reason for this immoderate response is undoubtedly the agency’s fear that the public will react badly to the substantial changes in product labelling and food inspection methods and procedures being proposed by the CFIA. These changes will amplify risk management, and the risk will be to the health of Canadian citizens,” says Demers.
PS. What became of this initiative? Or was that simply code for “we will do less food inspection”? Sort of like “we won’t raid seniors nest eggs”, whereupon the Harper CONs did just that?
http://caiti-online.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-am-i-reminded-of-linda-keen.html
And thank goodness Alberta’s surplus for this fiscal is projected to be only about $12.0 Billion. Rumour in the government has it that programs will be announced to pay for retrofitting Albertans’ houses to support thermal and/or solar. As well, Alberta will be nuclear soon as well (in conjunction with Saskatchewan).
Finally, I am hearing that there is likely to be an announcement in the spring/summer about the rollout of clean coal technology. Given that Alberta has over 300 years of supply, that should put a shiver into any other type of power options (an Alberta owned corporation will hold the patents, so the financial benefits will accrue to the individually (both corporate and personal) living in the province of Alberta)).
Now if oil can only stay at $135.00/barrel. Time for more Ralph-bucks.
Ed the Hun
Alberta sends billions to the rest of Canada through the equalization program.
Let’s see what happens when the greedy voters in the east sign on for Dion’s insane gamble to regain power for the liberal party of Toronto.
What’s that story about a golden goose?
Bring it on baby, bring it on.
The extra $3000.00 per year for every man, woman, and child that Albertan’s would have after being released from the equalization scam would come in handy.
I could always use another 4X4.
I think I’ll buy a green one this time.
To Tim N,
I noticed your entry and while it will take some time to respond to each individual point/questions, let me conveniently include a comment by a previous/different person who posted a comment on this same blog (different topic though):
Credit to someone named Irvine, ON:
START QUOTE
“Gotta add this too Garth
Most of the East does not get it’s petroleum products from Canada. It buys them from Venezuela or the Middle East. So let’s think about this “Carbon Tax”
The carbon tax does not include gasoline at the pump. Therefore, Joe Ontario buys a tank of gas, from the Middle East & neither the producer or end user pay a “carbon tax”
Now…
The producer in Alberta has to pay this carbon tax.
So in theory, energy consumption in the East (largest population) will not change. The end user doesn’t pay, nor does the supplier (another nation).
Yet Western Canada pays. The East gets off carbon tax free (from a gas perspective) The west gets nailed to the wall. So Dion ends up supporting foreign oil, but punishing North American energy supplies.
I want you to remember this Turner. You’re aware of Peak Oil and you probably know that there comes a time in Peak Oil when producing countries “deplete” so much they can’t export. England is a great example. Next year it becomes an importer, rather than an exporter of crude. Eastern Canada is the reason Canada imports it’s oil. It gets no oil from Western Canada, it gets it all from Venezuela (peaked in the 70s) and from the Middle East.
What happens when those countries can’t export? Saudi exports are already in decline. It’s not how MUCH oil they pump, but how much they export. And that number is falling.
So there will be Ontario, desperate for energy and it will turn west to Alberta, a place with 2 trillion barrels of heavy crude. And it will say…”please help us, we need energy”. How do you expect the West will react after the NEP, after a Carbon Tax that destroys OUR business but lets Ontario gas consumers off scott-free ?
The rest of the world knows it’s in their best interest to snuggle up with the oil producers. It’s probably a wise idea that Eastern politicians do the same thing. People out here have long memories dude.
END QUOTE
This is a very clear indication into how those in Alberta and Saskatchewan especially will be made to pay very high costs for national programs that won’t benefit the same people who are paying for the programs.
Both the producer (western canadian-based oil companies) and the consumer (the western canadian who buys fuel — both vehicle (the price increases WILL be passed onto the consumer) and home heating (natural gas) and electricity (there is almost NO hydroelectricity in Alberta or Saskatchewan) will be subject to the carbon-tax. The proceeds will be conveniently transferred to the ‘poor’ easterner who doesn’t have a job and doesn’t have to pay for the carbon tax.
The remainder of your question(s) I will try and get to later (but I have work to — we are VERY busy and do not have the employees that we require to keep up with the pace of work that we are facing).
Ed the Hun
Alberta sends billions to the rest of Canada through the equalization program.
Let’s see what happens when the greedy voters in the east sign on for Dion’s insane gamble to regain power for the liberal party of Toronto.
By Stan on 07.08.08 6:22 pm
And Ontario hasn’t sent billions of equalization payments the rest of Canada?
Please, I dare you, double, triple, quadruple dare you, whoever you are to prove to us with your own “science” why we should believe you over sources that are (don’t mean to offend, but) far, far, far more credible.
As always, awaiting your brilliant reply.
By brain on 07.08.08 3:59 pm
You know what brain, or whatever your name is, read some of these articles. You want to say every disease and weather storm is proof of man made global warming. Well brain, or whoever you are, there is plenty of info out there that refutes whatever you say.
So brain, or whatever, take it up with them. I for one have quit listening to the extremists who say the world is coming to an end because we drive cars. The Suzukis have said that for decades, all the while jetting around the world spewing CO2.
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=68277
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/record/archives/vol21/vol21_iss14/record2114.23.html
http://www.reason.com/news/show/34785.html
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23411799-7583,00.html
http://copiousdissent.blogspot.com/2008/02/earth-is-cooling-can-we-stop-now.html
http://www.friendsofscience.org/
There you have it brain, or whoever. I don’t expect you to believe me. I don’t want you to believe me. I’m not an authority, neither are you. You get your information some place and you accept it. Have at it. I get my information and I accept that. You’re a political partisan, so am I. You’re not a very nice person, neither am I.
Alberta sends billions to the rest of Canada through the equalization program.
By Stan on 07.08.08 6:22 pm
All provinces send money to the Federal Government for equalization payments through Income Tax.
Btw, did you forget that in the early 1980’s Alberta had their hand out as well for that help?
………………………………
I have a deep pity of you little person. For now on, when I am gonna think of an English Canadian, I will always think about you.
Canada is the hypocrisy pure, a oil tank for the USA, nothing more.
Vive le Québec lilbre, vive l’Alberta libre! And Ottawa, puck yourself!
That was useful. — Garth
By lucien Pignon on 07.08.08 1:06 pm
Lucien,as a French canadian living in BC, I am totally embarrassed by the likes of you. I wonder who is the real hypocrite. You do not have the right to speak for all of Quebecois let alone all of Canada. if you don’t like Canada, you can always leave with your pack-sack on your back.
PS! Don’t head for Florida because they don’t much like your kind.
Cheers
And thank goodness Alberta’s surplus for this fiscal is projected to be only about $12.0 Billion.
By Ed the Hun on 07.08.08 6:20 pm
Actually it’s 9.8 billion that we are projecting. Are you sure you live in Alberta or did these numbers jump in the last two days?
///////////////////////////////////////
I won’t be following them. So don’t lump me in with them.
And you have a very good question. Where did Suzuki come from? What makes him an expert on climate change? He’s a zoologist.
By Janice on 07.08.08 3:56 pm
Oh, what was I thinking, what would he know anything about “The Nature of Things”. And even if he did, it wouldn’t be good enough to put on tv as educational viewing.
No your right a zoologists and the creatures he studies aren’t affected by the environment in any way. No need for concern.
Just ask the ducks who keep landing in the Alberta tailings ponds(more like small lakes).
FYI
Zoologists are scientists concerned with the study of animals, their anatomy, physiology, ecology, evolution and embryology. They work in many different roles. Environmental zoologists and conservationists, for example, are responsible for protecting, managing and enhancing the wildlife in a particular area. There may be opportunities to work in field surveying, conducting scientific surveys of natural habitats and identifying, recording and monitoring animal species.
All the power to you, most of these comments are so vile. I’m not sure why sometimes you put yourself out there for cowards who hide behind the internet. I wonder if these folks would be as rude face to face.
Whether one agrees with your opinion or not you’ve got the cajones to put yourself out there and be accountable for what you say.
What is remarkable, and I’ve said it before, if you are so noxious, we do these people keep coming back.
I have absolutely no interest in reading conservative blogs. I’ve got better things to do.
Just ask the ducks who keep landing in the Alberta tailings ponds(more like small lakes).
By Ron p on 07.08.08 6:49 pm
And the tens of thousands of birds that fly into the windmill power generators on an annual basis.
On BBC-TV (via CBC), one of the banks (or lending companies) is laying off 2,000 staff.
As well, a new McMansion housing development in Northampton will have the workers put the roofs on to keep homes covered, then they will remain unfinished and sit empty.
As the downturn is well underway in the US and the UK, it is only a matter of time before it has a major impact here.
****************************************
We’re not the only ones up Shit Street, but Africa is where a lot of oil and natural resources are.
Guess where Russia, China and the US are headed? That’s right!
http://tinyurl.com/5h34ra
****************************************
Greg W. and others who are interested — 2 min., 40 sec. video of a water-powered car. Oil is dead — long live water!
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=vKM4pb9Oxrg
By Ed the Hun on 07.08.08 6:32 pm
Thanks for your response – and I look forward to the other answers. Truly, I am interested in understanding the “western” perspective better.
However, one further point (in response to your quote above) my understanding is that there are very few refineries in Alberta. Therefore, the majority of the oil that is produced would be shipped out of province for refining (likely to the US), so I don’t see the link in that cost being passed onto the consumers in Alberta. (at least any more so than an Ontario consumer – where we have refineries – so likely the Ontario consumer is more open to being taxed as the gasoline we use is refined in Canada, where as the gas you use is most likely refined in the US – where there is no carbon tax)
Further, as oil, coal, potash, etc… are commodities, is it not impossible to pass that cost (at a producer level) on to the consumer? For example, if it costs $50 to produce a barrel of oil, and the cost of the commodity is $140, the profit is $90 a barrel. If a $40 carbon tax is added to the barrel (for simplicity sake – I’m not sure of the actual cost), and say production costs go up to $100 a barrel, the oil company can only sell it at $140 a barrel (for a profit of $40 a barrel). I’m not sure how this cost gets passed on.
Also – in Ontario, we are in the same boat with electricity – as a large amount of our energy in produced by coal – so again, I’m not sure how Alberta is unfairly treated as opposed to Ontario. Also, according to Stan, Alberta has the most wind power, and with hydro electric power from Manitoba (which is closer to you than to southern Ontario) – don’t you see this as a positive way to boost Manitoba’s economy (as opposed to giving equalization payments?)
If I am not understanding it correctly, please correct me.
Thanks in advance,
Tim
Garth, I don’t know how you keep a straight face to some of these comments. Here are some highlights for me -
- “Cons’s buttock, Garth “hole” Turner and Libs’buttock”. What about this? A bit more useful donkey face?
- Innisfail in the New Peoples Republic of Alberta
- “Stephane, is that you”
- Alberta and BC are TWINS ! ! ! !
- Your excellent blog name, “The Nexus of Assholery” is sadly taken.
Cherniak, are you out there taking notes? This is what a blog is all about! This is comedy gold! Wow people are absolutely ridiculous!!!!
Ever think about a stand-up routine, Garth?
Good for you for saying what you think… I don’t often agree with you, but you say what you think, and I admire that (I’m from the west, non-Liberal, will never leave Canada)!
Have a great night!
Stan,
Actually in the ‘early’ 1980’s Alberta did NOT have its hand out. What it had out was a leave us alone, since your ‘national policies’ are killing Alberta’s economy.
Didn’t matter though. Trudeau and his ilk were too focused on Alberta (and Saskatchewan’s) oil.
It took over 10 years and deep cuts to recover and now another liberal team is ‘threatening’ to do the same again.
Except this time, Albertans are watching, are on guard and have a plan…
Ed the Hun
London Telegraph . Better known in London as the local fish wrapper .
Yea, they get a lot of respect . Right up there with the National Enquirer .
Nice try moron !
The Thatcher governments very own mouth piece .
You are such a friggin’ joke .
I luv ya jwp … keep on truckin’ ..LOL
By Harry S on 07.08.08 6:11 pm
Thanks Harry, if you lived in North Burlington, I’d invite you over for a coffee…
Robert; Got your direct e-mail, can’t answer because on vacation but basically, I am not letting you separate. LOL….
Mr. Turner
As an Albertan I find your remarks about us as offensive. You say you apologize…yet you also note you have a history
of “misspeaking”. You wonder why people out west figure we could separate; what makes loud mouths like yourself
put us down because we don’t want to follow dictatorial governments in the “central” area of Canada, telling us what we
can or can’t do.
No,instead you elect the same gang of morons over and over and…..
To SJ on 07.08.08 1:19 pm
You must be from Vancouver or you haven’t through Kamloops or past Williams Lake.
We have a carbon tax in BC since July 1st that will screw our forest industry and more raw logs will be exported south of the boarder because of increased cost of milling here. Not to mention the oil in the North of the Province and the coal bed methane (touchy topic I know) in the South. Another tax will not help people outside the lower mainland. We need to drive to work because of lack of any other option and heat our homes in the winter. Small cars and efficient furnaces only go so far. With another tax we just loose the few jobs we have left. We are more like Alberta than you wish to admit With this green shift we are both up the Tulameen river with out a paddle and no one left to vote for.
Ron P,
The price of oil estimates and the exchange are GROSSLY out of whack to reality.
Given what I’ve seen from Finance and Enterprise (and if actuals continue to exceed the actual rates) the 08/09 budget surplus (before all of the adjustments – i.e. $4.0 Billion for climate change initiatves) could actually reach $20.0 Billion….
Ed the Hun
Every province sends money to Ottawa, but Albertans get screwed out of an extra $3000.00 per capita per year which is about four times as much as Ontarians pay per capita.
Quebec on the other hand received over $1000.00 per capita, PEI and NB received over $2000.00 per capita. The rest of the recipient provinces were in between $1000.00 and $2000.00 per capita.
Don’t you understand the equalization program Irene?
Alberta never received equalization payments in the ’80s.
Wake up and do a bit of research. This is just another cheap and sleazy liberal program designed to steal money from Alberta to use to buy votes in eastern Canada.
The liberals sold it to the dumb and greedy easterners before with the original NEP, they figure they can do the same again.
You guys were gullible enough to believe their lies on the gun registry, I guess they figure you’re dumb enough to swallow their latest pack of lies.
And if you’re not dumb enough, you’re likely greedy enough to fall for their tax cuts that come at the expense of the West.
I’ll tell you one thing, the liberals sure know their voters in the east, they play them like little puppets.
Ignorance, greed, and gullibility are the liberals best friends.
They can always count on them to sway the eastern voters.
So bring it on.
Bring on your stupid and corrupt tax and see what happens to Canada.
The one and only thing I give Dave Rutherford credit for .
He refuses to countenance separatists of any stripe and hangs up,on them, when they start spouting their drivel .
The one and only position I agree with him on .
If this tax is about the environment, why is Dion taxing diesel but not gasoline?
Diesel is the fuel of choice for public transport buses, it’s greener than gasoline, the Europeans have been using it in passenger cars far more than we have.
So why would Dion tax it?
Is it just a coincidence that easterners use more gasoline than the average Canadian and westerners use more diesel?
Tax those western bastards and give the easterners a free ride and to hell with the environment?
The more one looks at this the sleazier it gets.
One thing I do agree with though, if we are expected to reduce GHG emissions then the rest of the world had better do like wise.
By Janice on 07.08.08 3:46 pm
Janice is the neighbor we all dread who will refuse to keep her own property tidy unless everyone else does. A TRUE Denier of reality and personal responsibility, a FOLLOWER, and not leadership quality.
She is probably a great asset the the mindless consumerism that plagues us today. ‘Oh look! Shiny thingys! I have to have some. I want to be a Yuppie Groupie like they are.’
What about this? A bit more useful donkey face?
By lucien Pignon on 07.08.08 2:14 pm
Go suck a crepe, eh!
She is probably a great asset the the mindless consumerism that plagues us today. ‘Oh look! Shiny thingys! I have to have some. I want to be a Yuppie Groupie like they are.’
By Bill-Muskoka on 07.08.08 8:17 pm
Wow Billie, you’re deep.
By Naomi on 07.08.08 6:06 pm
Ahso, what we hear from the ‘Albertans’ is ‘I AM Albertan’, but NOT Canadian.
Same song and dance as we hear from the Qubecois Separatists who think they speak French! HA! If they went to France they would find out how RUDE the French can be because their French is NOT French by Parisan standards.
What a joke of arrogant ignorance.
Bring on your stupid and corrupt tax and see what happens to Canada.
By Stan on 07.08.08 8:00 pm
Oh,no ! Stan has separated from Canada .
What will we do ?
Good luck ‘ya stupid moron .
Tim,
In Ontario I believe that coal/hydrocarbons are responsible for about 20% of the electricity being produced. In Alberta almost 90% comes from hydrocarbons. Why? Because we don’t have other choices (nuclear, hydro, for example).
So while there might be an impact on Ontario consumers, NOTHING like that which will impact the Albertan consumer to heat their home (using natural gas) and electricity (again natural gas or coal are burned to turn the turbines to produce electricity).
Now regarding refining. Actually there are refineries in ‘the west’. However, the capacity is meant to support the market conditions of ‘the old west’. The refineries here accept oil from western Canada and refine it into gas/diesel for use by the ‘average consumer’.
In the east (anywhere east of Manitoba), the source of fuel (gas/diesel) is from ‘off-shore’ (middle east, Norway (?), etc). This is imported into Eastern Canada, refined and sold to eastern consumers (and not western consumers — there is no pipeline west to east (east coast)).
This is why you actually at times see gas actually cheaper in Ontario than you might find in Alberta (even though Alberta sits on top of a sea of it and has the lowest gas taxes in Canada + no provincial sales tax).
The markets are segregated…which means that prices at the pumps often move in ways that the average Canadian might find impossible.
Now regarding refining. Alberta (with the oil/tar sands) has hundreds of years of supply…however until it is refined it is a useless commodity.
But given the carbon tax shaft, why would anyone build a refinery? To do so makes them a contributor to the GHG issue…so to do so means that the cost of the GHG bill will be passed onto the consumer. And in Western Canada, that is the joe on the street. But not onto the eastern joe, because he gets his fuel from Iran (or Iraq or Saudi Arabia). No carbon tax on the producer (Suncor, for example in the oil sands), or the refinerie (already refined), or the consumer (becasue the libs plan CONVENIENTLY doesn’t include taxing the actual driver, who POLLUTES the clear blues skies of Toronto (sarcasm meter off). But in Western Canada, those costs are pushed directly onto the poor smuck driving to work.
Of course the same applies to the guy trying to keep his house warm in the winter as well (and of course, conveniently so, Western Canada has longer and colder winters than Toronto or Montreal, so the impact on the same western Canadian is more deeply felt than on the eastern consumer who gets most of their electricity from hydro or nuclear).
Up, the plan clearly is stacked to ‘hurt’ Western Canada and see both money (from the consumer) and the producer sent East to those who conveniently benefit from having rivers a plenty (and of course let us NOT DISCUSS that water vapour actually contributes even MORE to GHG than CO2 — that would hurt the libs plan even more).
Ed the Hun
Steady Ed announced $2 billion for CCS. He’s looking to the energy companies to help pay for it.
Alberta taxpayers have to cough up $2 billion and energy companies can collect from Alberta taxpayers through utility bills. Sweet.
Who’s getting ’screwed’?
Canada has fast become an ultra right-wing, fascist police state / dictatorship — like the US and UK — with plenty of unannounced snooping and invasions of privacy.
Almost no one even noticed this was going on. It would be interesting to know how much Bell and Telus are involved with this, if at all; today it was announced that incoming text (and spam) messages will now be charged.
Apparently, somehow they will start charging differently for ‘net use in 2011 or so. Yet another cash grab for the monopolies.
Part of John Thompson’s column, concerning new rules for real estate agents (of all people!), the worthless excuses used for the feds. bringing them in is on castanet.net, and reads as follows:
“New federal laws and regulations to prevent money laundering and terrorism-related financing requires real estate agents to collect and verify more personal information from buyers and sellers.
“The law requires realtors to require proof of identity from all parties in any real estate transaction, even if one side of the deal is not represented by a real estate agent.
“If a buyer or seller is a corporation, agents must now include corporate documentation, the names of all corporate directors and identification of any other third party involved in a deal.
“Realtors will also be required to complete a report on the receipt of all funds received during a real estate transaction.
“As part of the new rules, Realtors will be required to keep all identification and receipt of funds reports on file for at least five years and provide it to the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada, the federal agency enforcing these new rules.”
Does anyone smell the rotting stench of the NAU, SPP, the Amero, CANAMEX and NAFTA rearing its ugly head again?
This time, a lot more quietly.
****************************************
Following the above, and speaking of new “anti-terror” laws . . .
http://tinyurl.com/6sx2n7
Bring on your stupid and corrupt tax and see what happens to Canada.
By Stan on 07.08.08 8:00 pm
Oh,no ! Stan has separated from Canada .
What will we do ?
Good luck ‘ya stupid moron .
————————————–
You guys are really dumb enough to think you can wreck the economy of the west and we’ll just sit here and take it?
You got away with it once, do you really think it will work again?
There are far too many people who remember losing their jobs and houses and having to declare bankruptcy because of the malicious liberal NEP in the ’80s.
Hey, if you don’t believe me, let ‘er buck. Elect Dion and have him implement this corrupt scheme.
I’d be just as happy to see you guys go ahead and try it.
So would lots of other people.
Most people understand that AGW is a joke, they certainly won’t stand for losing their houses and jobs over a corrupt farce like this.
But prove me wrong, elect Borat, er, Dion, and try your stupid tax.
Came through a little while ago . . .
****************************************
HOW TO GET A JOB IN THE US POST OFFICE
A guy goes to the Post Office to apply for a job.
The interviewer asks him, ‘Are you allergic to anything?’
He says ‘Yes — just caffeine’.
‘Have you ever been in the service?’
‘Yes,’ he says. ‘I was in Iraq for two years.’
The interviewer says, ‘That will give you 5 extra points toward employment,’
and then asks, ‘Are you disabled in any way?’
The guy says, ‘Yes 100% . . . an IED exploded near me and blew my testicles
off.’
The interviewer tells the guy, ‘O.K. In that case, I can hire you right now.
Normal hours are from 8 AM to 4 PM. You can start tomorrow at 10:00 — and
plan on starting at 10 AM every day.’
The guy is puzzled and says, ‘If the hours are from 8 AM to 4 PM, why don’t
you want me to be here before 10 AM?’
‘This is a government job,’ the interviewer says. ‘For the first two hours we just stand around drinking coffee and scratching our balls. No point in you coming in for that.’
Interesting comments and misconceptions are flying around the blogosphere.
Fact – the only energy source that is shipped directly from the wonderful west to the evil east is NATURAL GAS via the Trans Canada Pipeline.
Fact – the southern and northeastern Ontario electrical grid is virtually separate from the northwestern Ontario electrical grid.
Fact – the Manitoba – Ontario electrical connection has been talked about for it seems ever but hasn’t been built yet.
Fact – there’s a lot of wind power generation on the prairies because there’s plenty of locations where it is very feasible (same in Quebec).
Fact – shipping electricity for very long distances is not as easy as you’d think (current technology is not very efficient).
Fact – the provincial crowns own the natural resources – not the federal crown – and its been that way since 1930
Fact – the provincial governments have consistently underpriced these natural resources through low royalty and stumpage fees.
Fact – no provincial or federal government has implemented and followed through with a truly long-term (multi-generational) plan for its natural resources. (Does anybody remember how Getty’s administration pissed away the surplus they inherited from the Lougheed administration?)
Now, we are faced with runaway inflationary increases in the price of oil, and as many have pointed out, our industrial model runs on petroleum products. The stuff is being mined in one part of the country, but most of what is produced is being exported out of the country, while the rest of the country imports its petroleum from outside the country. I don’t have the figures, and I’d love to see them if someone does have them, but I am willing to put up a loonie that Canada exports more oil than it imports every year, and I am also willing to put up another loonie that more oil money leaves Canada than stays in Canada.
If this is the case, is this right and proper? Can we do something about this?
The thing that sits in my mind is not that long ago there were lots of people in this country earning really fat pay cheques in the forest industries – and then all of a sudden the paper mills and the saw mills across the country shut down. And most of the money left Canada never to be seen again.
I guess what I am really asking is, is the good old way we’ve always done business in this country the right way, or is there a better way?
Before people start frothing and sputtering – I don’t think the good old way has worked out as well as we had hoped it would in the long run – and I am just dumbly optimistic enough to think that there’s gotta be a better way – I just don’t know what it is.
Wow Billie, you’re deep.
By Janice on 07.08.08 8:30 pm
My ‘deepest’ apologies Janice. I would not want you to drown in the ‘depth’ being a resident of a car park puddle who’s intellectual level is controlled by Con Bots per Caesar Disgustus’ command.
You are far too entertaining to witness your demise at this stage.
By Stan on 07.08.08 8:05 pm
Stan, I am a farmer in Ontario…my diesel is more expensive than gas. A carbon tax on diesel would hurt every farmer in this country. Leasa
Well guess what Stan. No one gives a shit about your pathetic little 28, seats .
Law of the land is simply that . Law .
You can yell and scream and jump up and down until the cows come home .
Separation is impossible . Read the clarity act .
You hillnillies make me laugh .
Men with Hats,
Oh I’ve read the Clarity Act. Very carefully and thoroughly. It clearly outlines the last step in a march towards self-determination.
Ed the Hun
Geez Leasa, I guess it all depends on what you define as “popular”. Zero growth in polling numbers since taking office against what you’d characterize as an ineffectual Opposition? Within select quarters? I gather you must be having a good harvest this fine summer (which I would applaud) because something has left you in a buoyant mood that is masking reality.
This outside-looking-in opinion from the Telegraph reminds me of a similar news item I’d seen broadcast from the States in which the by-then-loathed-at-home Prime Minister Brian Mulroney was having accolades showered on him in the U.S. accompanied a genuine puzzlement from his hosts as to why such a great guy was not equally well received at home. I guess the Telegraph missed that part.
your “fanatic” heart.
By Deb Prothero on 07.08.08 2:14 am
By Marg on 07.07.08 10:53 pm
Loved the poem Deb.
Great thoughts Marg. Except for the apology bit at the end. Just my opinion.
Lot’s of folks with grievances Gart. So it seems. I wonder if they really have any idea what they are talking about? I read a post about Easterners disliking Westerners and thinking badly of them, then another about the flag not cutting it for that particular poster from Quebec.
I’m an Easterner, and I don’t think badly of Westerners, nor do I think they have more rednecks per capita than anywhere else. I don’t have any sympathy for the element that touts western separation though.
I don’t care much for the flag either. You see, the Red Ensign means a lot more to me for a variety of reasons. Reasons very important to me, yet I think the red and white maple leaf was intended as a unifying gesture and I’m ok with that. Seems a good reason to change a flag.
I’m a Rebel. Been a Rebel all my life, but I’m old now. Been a lot of places, met a lot of people, done a lot of things. I’ve learned that good people outnumber assholes, but assholes are louder.
I don’t want to be a Rebel without a cause. A real cause. That’s a waste of a life’s experiences. I don’t want to listen to fools. I don’t even want to hear from them, but I must.
I read twenty things, and find one with a gem in it. Thereabouts. I listen and consider and always try to remember something I learned a long time ago. I learn much more when I listen, than when I talk.
The secret to acquiring wisdom is to learn who to listen to. Some people are wise. They are few.
So…
as for the bickering Gart; do you remember Sam? Lot’s to think about there ol’ Gart.
Up rode the Duke on a loverly white ‘orse,
To find out the cause of the bother,
He looked at the musket and then at Old Sam,
And he talked to Old Sam like a brother
‘Sam, Sam, pick up thy musket’
The Duke said as quiet as could be,
‘Sam, Sam pick up thi musket,
Coom on lad, just to please me
‘Alright Duke,’ said Old Sam, ‘just for thee I’ll oblige,
And to show thee I meant no offence’,
So Sam picked it up, ‘Gradely, lad’ said the Duke,
‘Right-o boys… let battle commence.’
Not so long after that, in the great scheme of things, them boys went up that Juno Beach. I guess it didn’t matter much to them which part of the country you came from. On their shoulders was a patch that said;
“Canada”
By Stan on 07.08.08 8:05 pm
Stan, I am a farmer in Ontario…my diesel is more expensive than gas. A carbon tax on diesel would hurt every farmer in this country. Leasa
By Leasa on 07.08.08 10:01 pm
Those four window boxes and half a cozen house plants,you tend, do not qualify you as a farmer .
Men with Hats,
Oh I’ve read the Clarity Act. Very carefully and thoroughly. It clearly outlines the last step in a march towards self-determination.
Ed the Hun
By Ed the Hun on 07.08.08 10:22 pm
You’re a laugh riot Ed , You think a couple of thousand idiot rednecks are going to rear this country apart ?
Oh,tyea good lick marketing that sludge you produce in Fort Mac . No one wants that crap .
Oil sands will disappear in a decade .
By Dube on 07.08.08 11:13 pm
How do you explain how the other seven leaders compared to Harper?
Gord.
William your statement of fact is flawed:
Fact – the provincial governments have consistently under priced these natural resources through low royalty and stumpage fees.
We won this dispute at Nafta Panel and the WTO our lumber is not subsidized just priced in a different way.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/softwood_lumber/
If to your point we were subsidizing our stumpage and there for our raw logs, the US lumber lobby wants those logs and is getting more and more of them each year. The Duty now is 15% on finished lumber and nothing on raw logs. If we are subsidizing the raw logs why are we giving them to the US and South East Asia at cost and penalizing our own industry. This also leaves our pulp sector with out fiber due the fact it comes from sawmills as chips, sawdust, and hog fuel (which is used for power generation).
Why is this relevant to this blog? Now we want to penalize our forest industry with yet another Tax, a second carbon tax the green shift. The other problem as you state the good paying jobs are gone,true, with the logs right across the border and we are left with what? The same will happen to the oil it will be exported in raw form and jobs in the refineries gone. Fast food work doesn’t pay for homes or gas at todays prices.
One more comment:
Fact: the Province does own the resources but the Softwood Lumber deal and Nafta are Federal. BC has 50% of the Canadian lumber exports.
I believe a better way is not to give away our better paying jobs with our resources to other countries. Also not to put our resource industries and farming industries at risk by putting them at an unfair disadvantage due to poorly thought out, jump on the band wagon taxes.
This tax will hurt small businesses, farmers, manufacturers and anyone exporting to or competing against a country without the same carbon tax disadvantage.
Yo Con Bots… do ya miss your masta Steve? He’s on the international stage making a bigger a** of hisself. Make sure y’all git yur share of the talkin’ points.
am just dumbly optimistic enough to think that there’s gotta be a better way – I just don’t know what it is.
By William Laidlaw on 07.08.08 9:19 pm
I agree, creating a problem to a previous well thought, or not, solution seems backwards to me.
Just for a change of pace and perhaps no more, maybe someone would care to present solutions for existing problems.
Laugh all you want, I thought it a rather novel idea.
I thought perhaps the green tax shift would deliver as promised but I see it`s just creating a problem to go with the solution. I havn`t quite figured out what the solution is yet but it must be a big one to create such a huge problem for it to fix. The people of BC, by majority, are rejecting the carbon tax, no benefit to the environment, major emitters excluded, problems created to fit a solution. So far the indicators is the requirement by law to meet Kyoto targets is the solution. Hey wait a minute, that was actually a problem was created for even bigger preplanned solution. Could it be the solution that is so often aired here, I think so.
Honestly Mr. Laidlaw you`re asking the same system that got us here over the last 40 years to fix the problems. The one thing government can do is nothing, at least they will stop making things worse. On the other hand things are sitting atop a very steep and crumbling slope. Without a great deal of correct action the noticeable potential of economic conditions making the changes required are a certainty. Letting it play out that way is the hard way. I don`t think I need point out the government has chosen the hard way, without consulting you or anyone else. It would appear, with a great deal of certainty through empirical data most Cdns do not favor letting economic conditions make the changes.
That`s one of the best features of democracy, everyone has a voice and everyone inputs through a poll. That`s another novel idea don`t you think, we could try a little democracy, perhaps even do something about that departure from it over the decades.
I think I have make a very good case for a provincially nominated federal government which would be more palatable than separation, certainly to myself, lol, just speaking for myself.
The only other option is to rely on the broken system fixing itself. As much as the majority would like to see that happen we know it`ll never happen, can`t happen. Of all the parliamentary systems world wide ours has had the least reforms.
Seems ok to turn over the rights and freedoms of every Cdn to a handful of unelected unaccountable lawyers hired by a bunch of unaccountable politicians. lol, I mean seriously how do you fix that. It`s one of the main reasons the Cdn gov. is ranked very high on the global government corruption scale. At least I`m sure we agree the system is very broken and I can not imagine what argument could be used that anyone would say it`s fixable left alone attempt to fix it so until anyone posts an idea on fixing it I willing assume you agree with me, it`s not fixable. Dream on about sentiment or be so rooted in tradition or perhaps just frozen in headlights, it`s just not possible to repair.
Sorry if I`m being so opinionated but my concern about letting economic conditions make the changes, especially when the general public was neither informed nor consulted.
I think we`re long overdue for a debate on our number one problem, a very dysfunctional elected federal government but all that is just my opinion.
But hey you`ve got a voice here and because you`re posts have depth it appears you`d rather die on your feet than live on your knees, can`t remember who said that, would appreciate a reminder.
What problems would you seek solutions?
on vacation but basically, I am not letting you separate. LOL….
By jwp on 07.08.08 7:46 pm
Be a sport, other than having two or perhaps three federal governments, possibly structured a trifle bit different but it`ll still be business as usually. The first improvement will be the kind of governance that will start to restore international investor confidence back in Canada.
btw I sent you that info direct as the debate I`m interested is a provincially nominated federal government and not western separation. I`ll discuss the options right down till the last light is out so enjoy your vacation.
Hi Janice on 07.08.08 1:07 pm,
‘I’m a global warming denier.’
That’s ok if you are.
You still don’t need to believe, but please take the 10 min to listen to this logic to why taking action is a better choice than not taking action. It’s only 10 min.
He’s called it ‘How It All Ends’ 10 min.
Go to this link and click on it.
The best 10 min you’ll spend all day
http://wonderingmind42.com/
And what ever your age happens to be,
I am assuming you don’t have any kid’s/family to worry about?
For your own sake I hope you’re really old, because the way PMSH is going to expansion of the Tar/Oil sands Canada will be all out of Natural Gas by 2028. How do you heat your home and water now?
If you don’t believe in peak-oil either you are not well informed.
This is a good show to think about but it’ll take more that 30sec. to watch all 8 part.
Here;s the link to part 3 of 8. 9min.
9min.
The Most IMPORTANT Video You’ll Ever See (part 3 of
(The whole show is worth watching!
‘Arithmetic, population, and energy.’)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFyOw9IgtjY
Just doing nothing, to address the real know problems, is not good planning,
in my books. There are lots of do able solution. Some are better than others.
The trouble is we don’t have very much time left to get the job done in!
Nuclear power is going to need to play a big part to stop pumping GHG into the air in time.
It’s the only technology we have now that is able to replay the energy we are presently getting from burning fossil fuels.
The author of this book has a web site, use her name to find it. There is a good video talking about what is in her book FYI.
‘Power to Save the World: The Truth About Nuclear Energy.’
By: Gwyneth Cravens
http://www.cravenspowertosavetheworld.com/
Link to a video that talking about her book.
http://fora.tv/2007/09/14/Could_Nuclear_Power_Save_the_Planet
Did you notice that the video is on a ‘Chevron Oil’ site’?
Even the big oil companies know about peak-oil and Global climate change and what the implication are. We all need to take action now.
Inaction is still a choice, be it a bad choice.
It seems to be PMSH choice to do nothing, even for his own kid’s future.
I think this is worth remembering,
‘Believe in myth avoids the discomfort of thought.’
Just my two cents again.
Hi Harry S on 07.08.08 1:37 pm,
What I heard earlies/yesterday is the G8 combined produce 2/3 of the GHG now.
Not to mention the west has been putting most of the GHG into the air since the start of the industrial revolution and then the discovery of oil.
So harry it sound like you think doing nothing is the way to go?
I vote for taking real and meaningfull action to try and stop the really BRUTAL effects of Climate Heating.
I’m not that old, and PMSH own kids also deserve to have a future. Even if PMSH is ignorant and incompatant.
But since he now agrees that man made climate change is happening, his lack of meaningfull action now and in time to get the job done, is grossly neglagent!!! A real crime against humanity. We are all runing out of time very quickly, if you have been paying attention, and are well informed.
And don’t for get about peak-oil, the world if we just keep going/growing as is will be all out of oil by 2050-2060.
And there just guessing that there might be a bit more in the artica, it’s a guess so fare!
Hi again Harry S on 07.08.08 3:56 pm,
I trust Dion much more than PMSH who is a lier. Remember no taxing income trust!
Remember open and accountable Government, Not. Don’t invest in Ontario.
So many more…
Even days before the Green Shift came out, PMSH said it was insane and we’d all be screwed. PMSH seem to know alot about being insane and screwing us all!
PMSH has no plan, just more lies.
And then there’s the Treasonous SPP deal, with the undercover cops and rocks trying to start a riot.
What kind of world do you want you and your family to live in?
Dion seems to be well informed and a critiacl-thinker, just to mention a few good things.
He has a pritty good plan to try and help us all get the job done.
Dion is most likely to get my vote this time around.
I’ve been paying very close attention since his non-clean air plan.
I’ll be voting ABC for sure!
I’m sure that my vote is ABC!!!!
But from what I’ve seen you write Harry you problem don’t agree with me about PMSH.
Hi Charles Oxley on 07.08.08 6:59 pm,
Thanks for the link.
I have seen it before.
Hydrogen is an energy carrier and can be used to store energy for later use.
LIke the flame in the link you gave or to make electricity using a fuel-cell.
You still need a scoures of energy to split the H2O.
We are going to need lots of carbon free energy to split all the H2O to make the hydrogen to replace gas for example in cars. Fuel cells are able to get more usable energy back that say just burning in a gas engine. The electricity for the fule cell can be used to turn motors.
Renewables can help to make some of the hydrogen, but we are still going to need clean, safe, Nuclear power to make all the hydrogen we’ll need. CANDU is my choice.
Remember it is offten not sunny at night and windy on the hottest and coldest days in Ontario!
I’ve suggested some book and sittes to get the faces about nuclear power before. I did it above or was that on yesterdays post?
Hopefully fuel-cells will come down in price and last longer than they did a few years ago. also they need to last in a cars that vibrate lots.
They woking on it, they have some that work, just need to decrease caost and increase life expetance of the fuel-cells. Then we’ll need lots of electricity to change H2O into hydrogen gas for our use in different aplications.
I heard honda might have a fuel-cell car that’s ready for the market soon.
I’m sure others like toyota are close as well. There also the plug-in hybread cars coming out for next year, using new type of lithium batteries.
We still need oil to make furtilizers etch. We need to stop wasting it as car fuel, and to make eletricity.
Again nuclear power is the way to go.
It only takes 4 years to build a CANDU power plant. The last few were built on time and under budget!
http://www.aecl.ca/
http://www.cna.ca/
Thanks for helping the separatist movement! We’ll take every little help…
It’s quite funny to see the liberals stucked with a loser like Stéphane Dion. You will go nowhere with this guy.
Compared to Gilles Duceppe? — Garth
By Greg W., Oakville on 07.09.08 2:23 am
I’ll be voting ABC for sure!
I’m sure that my vote is ABC!!!!
But from what I’ve seen you write Harry you problem don’t agree with me about PMSH.
………………………………………………………..
I hear ya , Greg … but if you intend to vote ABC, you should doubly NOT vote Liberal either ..!!!!
Just think .. if the Chretien-Martin-Dion past governments had been responsible, we would not have built up a 32% GHG excess over our 2012 Kyoto targets, we would not require a Dion Liberal Carbon Tax. Imagine the gall of the Liberals …. first they create that GHG excess, and now they tell us we need a carbon tax to punish us for spewing too much GHGs..!!!
I hope you and others here don’t think that the Dion Liberals deserve another chance after they “didn’t get it done” over 10 years of delinquent government. Just imagine Canadians electing the very same Liberals who allowed GHGs to skyrocket over Kyoto to punish them with a punitive draconian Carbon Tax. That would be stooopid …!!!!
I like what PM Harper has done … repudiated the Liberal now 30% GHG excess and has set his environmental targets starting from 2006 onwards. This means rejecting Kyoto, and now that it appears massive polluters like China, India, Russia are refusing to join in on Kyoto GHG restrictions, we can also walk away from the flawed Kyoto Treaty. Besides, our massive 30% GHG excess over Kyoto is only an insignificant 0.7% reduction to the world’s total GHGs.
If the past Liberal governments had acted responsibly and make Kyoto a ‘priority’ we wouldn’t be hearing about a Liberal Carbon Tax. In effect Dion is inviting Canadians to punish themselves for the failure of past Liberal governments. ABL .. Anybody But Liberals …!!!!
Harry: Of course I’ll be voting Liberal.
Harper hasn’t done a thing to lower GHG’s. After all he is a closet denier.
By Ed the Hun on 07.08.08 8:34 pm,
Get real, Hun.
The fact is that Nova Scotia consumers will be taking the biggest hit in the country. Dion admits that. Already there is a huge bottom-up push to find alternatives to fossil fuels especially the generation of electricity by coal.
The biggest danger to Alberta oil is not Dion’s carbon tax but the consumer push for alternative energy sources. There is a good reason why Albertans like Harper don’t like the term “progressive.” The power of big oil comes from a market based oligopoly and the last thing shills for that oligopoly want is progress towards the development of competitive environmentally friendly alternatives.
The irony is that there are many Albertans who understand that they cannot continue to depend on the petroleum industry. Unfortunately, there are too few willing or able to use the wealth being generated by that industry to diversify. Alberta has the opportunity to be a progressive leader but like Ontario’s dependence on the automobile industry they are making the same mistake by becoming too reliant on one industry.
It is like children who always make the same errors as their parents even when their parents try to warn them about the implications of their actions.
Garth
From all the discussion here I have a suggestion.
Instead of another sin tax, how about we eliminate the tax on the construction materials for nuclear plant, wind turbines, Hydro projects and what ever technology we see as working to reduce green house gases and other forms of pollution. How about no tax on income generated from these projects. No road tax on fuels like hydrogen or electricity and no tax generated from production of these cars or vehicles for a period of say 20 years. These would be revenue streams that weren’t there for the government before so they would not be missed. These solutions would also not hurt our existing businesses.
Just a suggestion. It would also give me someone to vote for.
Well guess what Stan. No one gives a shit about your pathetic little 28, seats .
Law of the land is simply that . Law .
You can yell and scream and jump up and down until the cows come home .
Separation is impossible . Read the clarity act .
You hillnillies make me laugh .
By Men With Hats on 07.08.08 10:12 pm
—————————————
So, in other words, ’screw the west, we’ll take the rest’?
Yeah, we got that part of the liberal plan already, no need to repeat yourselves.
Again nuclear power is the way to go.
It only takes 4 years to build a CANDU power plant…The last few were built on time and under budget!
By Greg W., Oakville on 07.09.08 3:19 am
What utter garbage! I guess you work for the nuclear industry.
The maple reactors were supposed to cost $50 million, then $100 million, then $500 million before they hit close to $700 million last fall.Built at a cost of $680 million, the Maples are more than 600 per cent over budget and roughly 14 years past their promised date to begin “urgent” production of medical isotopes for cancer treatments. But what makes these atomic marvels most amazing is the simple fact they don’t work. The federal nuclear agency that owns the pair of duds had apparently estimated it would cost upwards of $300 million more to address the technical problems.
In Ontario, nuclear projects gone awry, namely Darlington and Pickering, have in large part left that province’s taxpayers on the hook for nearly $19-billion of electricity-related debt that they are paying down through a special charge on their local utility bills.
Ontario Hydro committed to restarting the Pickering units, but the restart project underwent long delays and large cost over-runs.The Epp Review estimated the cost of restarting the remaining reactors at $3 – 4 billion.On March 18 2004 the OPG Review Committee released its report, attributing the blame for cost over-runs to bad management
How about the costs of decommissioing nuclear power plants ??? examples as follows:
Japan’s Tokai-1 reactor, a 160 MWe UK Magnox design, is being decommissioned after 32 years service to 1998. After 5-10 years storage, the unit will be dismantled and the site released for other uses about 2018. The total cost will be 93 billion yen – 35 billion for dismantling and 58 billion for waste treatment which will include the graphite moderator (which escalates the cost significantly).
The French Atomic Energy Commission is decommissioning the UP1 reprocessing plant at Marcoule. This plant started up in 1958 and treated 18,600 tonnes of metal fuels from gas-cooled reactors (both defence and civil) to 1997. Progressive decontamination and dismantling of the plant and waste treatment will span 40 years and cost some EUR 5.6 billion, nearly half of this for treatment of the wastes stored on the site.
In USA, utilities are collecting 0.1 to 0.2 cents/kWh to fund decommissioning. They must then report regularly to the NRC on the status of their decommissioning funds. As of 2001, $23.7 billion of the total estimated cost of decommissioning all US nuclear power plants had been collected, leaving a liability of about $11.6 billion to be covered over the operating lives of 104 reactors (on basis of average $320 million per unit).
Next problem is security. How many millions will be needed to guard againist terrorist attack?
Hydrogen economy.
Yes, Hydrogen can be used for basic stationary applications like electrical power stations or even buses . But as a transportation vechile it has many problems to overcome.
1) lack of storage facility for the vehicle which means very limited range
Hydrogen storage is constrained by container weight and volume. Depending upon whether hydrogen is stored as liquid or a gas, it requires six to eight and six to ten times more storage space than gasoline, respectively.
2) Hydrogen doesn’t work well in cold conditions.
Most fuel cell designs are fragile and cannot survive in such cold environments at startup but since heat is a byproduct of the fuel cell process, the major concern is startup capability.
3) making hydrogen is more expensive then current cost of fuels.
Due to its extremely low boiling point storage other than as compressed gas is difficult.
There are two main methods for larger scale industrial production of hydrogen gas.
1)Splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen through electrolysis.
2)Synthesis gas production from steam reforming or partial oxidation of hydrogen-containing fuels.
Both methods require LARGE AMOUNTS of energy.
The resulting hydrogen gas is dried, purified, compressed, and sent to storage
4)The high cost of building a hydrogen infrastructure
Spend more than $500 billion to build the fueling infrastructure needed to make hydrogen available throughout the country.
5)Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are decades away because fuel cells are 50 times as expensive as they need to be
Electric cars are here NOW!!! The new city Zenn will go 80mph, range is 250 miles and recharge time is 5-6 min. The infrastructure has already been built for the electric car (Plug in) vs hydrogen!
Current fuel cell vehicles cost $1 million more than regular cars.
and 6)unknown service life for hydrogen vehicles.
Ballard Power Systems, a leading developer of hydrogen vehicle technology, pulled out of the Hydrogen vehicle business in late 2007. Research Capital analyst Jon Hykawy concluded that Ballard saw the industry going nowhere and said: “In my view, the hydrogen car was never alive. The problem was never could you build a fuel cell that would consume hydrogen, produce electricity, and fit in a car. The problem was always, can you make hydrogen fuel at a price point that makes any sense to anybody. And the answer to that to date has been no.”
Men With Hats,
Separation is NOT impossible. You only wish so.
Scotty
I do not know about reactor clean up cost. But if the cost is accurate as “Current fuel cell vehicles cost $1 million more than regular cars” you might want to do a little more research. Ballard sold out to the manufacturers. Please see:
http://www.autoobserver.com/2007/11/ballard-ford-daimler-venture-speeds-fuel-cell-progress.html
Honda is leasing a hydrogen car called the FCX Clarity and is now leased for about $600. Toyota has one coming out within a year or two. There are just a few but if the infrastructure help was there in the form of tax concessions anything might be posible.
Please see :
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080616/AUTOS_hydrogen_080616?s_name=Autos&no_ads=
Also if you would like more than an electric box like the Zenn, the Tesla might be an option in the future. Please see:
http://www.teslamotors.com/
There are better more environmentally friendly options to gasoline.
The same as there are better options to a green shift sin tax.
By L Jenner on 07.10.08 11:49 pm
Ballard-Ford-Daimler Venture Speeds Fuel Cell Progress
These are comments made from those articles u posted though their websites and the following is what these articles said ..so read very careful …
“The biggest obstacles standing in the way of wider adoption of fuel cell vehicles are cost and the dearth (lack) of hydrogen fuel stations.”
“The main drawback has been the immense expense, that, while it is coming down, has yet to match the cost of a traditional gasoline engine”
Today most advance electric cars can sell their cars at the price of a traditional gasoline engine – namely the city zenn
“the ultimate goal of automakers for any alternative-fuel vehicle. Some experts claim fuel cell vehicles remain 100 times more expensive than gas-powered ones.”
The other problem is infrastructure. Where does a consumer buy hydrogen to power the fuel cells?
“All of the OEMs are nervous about infrastructure,” admits Guzy. “The cost of hydrogen delivered by energy companies or industrial gas products is relatively high. One thought is to share the burden of regulations with those that supply the fuel.”
Honda rolls out new zero emission, hydrogen car
Updated Mon. Jun. 16 2008 3:37 PM ET
“As for the Clarity, the company (Honda) has not revealed how much each car costs to make, and it is unclear when, or if, the car will be available for mass-market sales. Takeo has set a target for 2018, but meeting that goal will depend on whether Honda can significantly lower development and assembly costs as well as market reaction to fuel cells”
Hmmmm Honda doesn’t seem so confident about their fuel cell car ..”it is unclear when, or if, the car will be available for mass-market sales. ”
“When or if” ..sounds very unclear..kinda scary comment made by Honda.
Honda refuses to release the amount that the clarity cost…How come Honda doesn’t release the actual cost of the vehicle?? Hmmmmmmm
You can’t even buy a “Clarity” so in itself tells u that its not for “sale” from what was written in the article.
I don’t see the Honda fuel cell car are being leased by ordinary individuals except movie stars and very high income people??? Is Honda being elitist and discrimatory to the type of clients that Honda will lease too ?? Hmmmmm
Also Honda only produced 200 Clarities
“The mass media is also quick to report that the major drawback of the FCX is the lack of hydrogen refueling stations. Even in California there are just a few. They neglect to mention that if someone were to pay the actual cost of an FCX, they’d be looking in the six-digit range. The technology is that expensive. ”
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/06/honda-fcx-clari.html
Honda President Takeo Fukui said the car still costs hundred of thousands of dollars to make but it could be made for under $100,000 well within ten years … at which point mass market production will be viable. As the New York Times reported, “the cars cost several hundred thousand dollars each to produce,” although Honda’s president Takeo Fukui “said that should drop below $100,000 in less than a decade as production volumes increase.” Why would production volumes increase for a car that delivers no real value to the consumer and has no significant societal benefit to motivate government support? Answer: They wouldn’t, so prices may never drop below $100,000. Yet the media can’t get enough of these hi-tech Edsels.
http://newsfeedresearcher.com/data/articles_t25/idt2008.06.20.13.14.30.html
and you have not answered the next question about the problems of reliability of cold weather operation of Hydrogen vehicles???
Even Ballard admitted that its a problem – especially during start up.
Will you tolerate a car that won’t start in -20 to -30c temp range??
Remember Canada has a very long cold winter?? So is the fuel cell car practicable for Canada??? Perhaps or perhaps not.
Will hydrogen cars be able to run properly in Canada during the most brutal months of cold weather Jan or Feb (especially in prairie provinces)?
Perhaps or perhaps not
These are important questions to ask about hydrogen vehicles.
I know that Ballard technology for vehicles was sold but that doesn’t negate the facts what Ballard management said about the technology.
Fuel cell technology will take many years to develop and the cost of building the infrastructure of this technolgy will run in billions as well as the cost of the hydrogen fuel will be very expensive.
Electric vehicles is the clear cut winner..the technology and infrastructure is already here and built vs 20-30yrs in the near future for hydrogen.
Building solar/geothermal homes will even make electric cars even more practical.
Battery technology gets better and more advanced each day.
Have you heard about Electrovaya’s SuperPolymer® technology. This is an enabling technology uniquely well suited to the demands of clean transportation, particularly plug-in hybrids electric vehicles (PHEVs) and zero-emission electric vehicles (ZEVs). The SupePolymer®’s high energy density, large format cells/modules and integrated system technology enables more energy to be packed in a small but scalable package.
or EEStor technology – ultra high capacitor technology that the Zenn will be using for their next electric car.
Is hydrogen fuel cell technology for vehicles is a trillion dollar boondoogle in the making??? Who knows?? but more I read about this technology more I think its a dead end technology and that is why Ballard sold their technology to the car manufacteurs because its too problematic.
I guess time will tell but I perfer today technology of the electric car vs the so call Hydrogen technology of ten to forty years in the future.
Thanks for the links Scotty.
Any technology is expensive to start with. Yes infrastructure is expensive and the use of hydrogen may be limited by cold weather.They are running Hydrogen buses in Vancouver. California has fueling stations .Places like Vancouver have the weather and the population to support the infrastructure in my humble opinion, all I guess I am trying to say is don’t rule it out. Electric is a great way to go and the Tesla is $109 000 and a hydrogen car is about the same maybe. I have friends spending $50 000 on a diesel truck. With the right incentive these solutions will be found sooner. But if the car companies are willing to subsidize this (ie. the $600 lease price for the Hydrogen) more power to them and if we can give them a break on taxes to develope it good on us. There are a lot of options Gasification of wood waste rather than burning the slash piles in the bush, or higher efficiency recovery boilers for pulp mills to produce electricity needed for the increase in electric cars. All these things need to be explored. And if we can help make it happen all the better.
Back to the tax, it will do nothing but make the businesses building these technologies in Canada less competetive. Thanks again for the links I have a little reading to do.