Parliament burns, Feb. 3, 1916. Today it faces another threat.
Lining one unused corridor which snakes beneath the historic East Block are three massive vaults. Installed more than 140 years ago, they were buried into the limestone foundation of the pre-Confederation building, and are pristine. Huge black steel doors hang from shining hinges, fronted with impressive wheels with which to wind back the phalanx of fist-sized bolts.
It was here that Canada kept its national money supply, long before there was a Bank of Canada, debit cards, ATMs or the ability to file income tax over the Internet. In fact, there was no income tax, and the wealth of the country was measured, in large part, by the size of the gold pile resting in those dark chambers.
Whenever I cut from the East Block to the Centre Block through a tunnel running under the front lawn of the Parliament Buildings, I stroll down that quiet and narrow hallway, put my hand on one of the doors and think of the people who came to this place before me. Upstairs is the restored office of Sir John, and not far away is the original Privy Council room, where Mackenzie King’s war cabinet met. For a couple of years during my first stint on the Hill, I reveled in having a quirky, incredibly inefficient but utterly memorable office in one of the Block’s towers.
As you may know, the East and West Blocks date from the 1860s, the Centre Block a little later. That centerpiece was devastated in a fire during one of the darkest years of the First War, in 1916. On the night of February 3rd, a cigar was left smouldering in a garbage can by an errant MP, leading to a general alarm shortly after 8:30 pm. The fire spread with fierce speed, feeding off newly-oiled wooden walls and varnished floors. Prime Minister Borden was forced to crawl through the smoke on his knees to escape, just as a heroic clerk in the beautiful and ornate Library of Parliament was slamming shut an iron door which would save that part of the building – the only section to survive.
When the building was reconstructed, the war was concluding, and to celebrate the end of human conflict (those were idealistic times), the soaring Peace Tower was raised above the city of Ottawa and the nation of Canada.
Not a day passes when I am there that I do not look up at that monument as I walk into the House of Commons. Within its stone walls is a memorial chamber to our fallen soldiers. To enter is to be awed. Even the most giggly and irreverent of school tour groups falls instantly silent as the visitors sense the majesty of that small space and see the sad, sad brass angels guarding the corners of a glass-topped alter containing the names of our heroes. The pages of that book are advanced by one sheet a day. The minutes I first looked upon it, I could not help but weep. We are so unworthy.
The Parliament buildings, sadly, are in rough shape these days. The West Block is full of asbestos, its walls leak and it was butchered in a renovation half a century ago. Its spires are wrapped in mesh to prevent mortar and stone from falling, and the main tower, added in 1876, is shrouded in scaffolding and white tarps. The Centre Block has major plumbing and electrical problems, and from my seat in the House of Commons, you can see the ugly yellow water stains high up on limestone walls, where the roof has leaked. Wire fencing has just been installed around one corner so tourists are not beaned by pieces falling off.
I sat for a few months on a House committee that heard about the rescue plans, and to repair and restore the mortar alone on just the massive West Block will cost over $800 million. To revive all three buildings could cost three or four times that amount and the project will take at least 12 years, during which time MPs will have to move out into a temporary House and Senate.
At a time when so many Canadians are losing their jobs, when plants are closing and families are under financial stress, some may question pouring so much money into these piles of rock. I can certainly understand that concern. But I don’t share it. Our country has too few symbols and already too thin a sense of its own history. Our Parliament buildings are among the most beautiful and unique in the world, and the scale of their birth – started on December 20, 1859 – was staggering. Little, backwater, unproven Canada stepped up with an architectural and patriotic vision which was unprecedented. Despite cost overruns, political squabbles, crises, work stoppages and all the odds, it was pulled off.
My sense of these buildings is heightened, because I’ve been afforded the honour of working in them. Perhaps you have been there, and feel it, too. It would be a great shame, fifty or a hundred years from now, if MPs were not able to stop on a busy day, look up, and feel small.
160 comments ↓
kpn, 9:39 pm
Great joke! Thanks!
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When Martin was turfed, harpo inherited a $14 bln. surplus. After spending that money on fresh air, one can only reminisce that $1 bln. would have been a reasonable amount to spruce up Parliament.
Instead, Canada spends approx. $100 mln. / month on an illegal and unjustified war in Af’stan, which will never end.
How much longer to the election? Because then, voters can FIRE THE LIARS!
“. . . the size of the gold pile . . .”
Recall a day or two ago I posted a link which said that Soros was buying gold bullion?
He knows there’s something up, especially with Israel’s lapdogs (including harpo and CRAP) spreading more and more disinformation about Iran.
If there is an attack from the west, Russia — possibly backed by China — will defend Iran.
Don’t waste the money fixing those old buildings right now. Leave it for another day when the economy is in better shape.
Disclaimer: I am not now, nor have I ever been, a supporter of the Liberal Party.
I still remember fondly my first visit to see the parliament buildings. After, or during, a college party, a group of us piled into an old station wagon at 03:00a.m., and decided to get patriotic with a visit to Ottawa. Yes, we were somewhat intoxicated, but that was not unusual in the early ’70’s.
We arrived on the Hill about 04:00, and due to the lighting, thought the buildings looked nice in the purplish patina they gave. After spending an hour or so wandering around, the RCMP noticed our little band of longhairs, and while leaving us totally alone, they kept watch.
As dawn approached, with a light drizzle, we decided time to return to Montreal, so I walked right up to an RCMP officer, and asked he sign a cigarette package, as no one back at college would believe we had gone on our patriotic excursion. He laughingly complied.
Upon departure, we went the wrong way on the Hill road, so the same officer stopped us, and asked us to turn around. So we did a u-turn, and drove directly under the Peace Tower – apparently another no-no, but the cop smiled, waved, and sent us of with a pleasant departure.
I will never forget that night. Seeing the Parliament was so impressive, in the quiet of early morning. A very inspiring sight they were.
We need to have something as an anchor point for our society. These buildings are that nexus. The money needed to restore them is a pittance compared to what is being spent killing people in Afghanistan. It is a relatively small amount compared to the cash we send overseas to help the unfortunate.
Sometimes, it is necessary to spend a little at home, just because we deserve it.
Fix ‘em; but fix ‘em right. We need to have something to show our great-great-great grandchildren…
Don’t waste the money fixing those old buildings right now. Leave it for another day when the economy is in better shape.
Disclaimer: I am not now, nor have I ever been, a supporter of the Liberal Party.
By Buford Wilson on 07.21.08 10:31 pm
How about a 40yr, zero down mortgage?
Gord.
40 years ago on a student tour of Parliament, I recall meeting “Paul of the Peace Tower”.. presumably a guard. The kind guard, and the building born the same year as my mother, were the most memorable part of the class trip.
If there is an attack from the west, Russia — possibly backed by China — will defend Iran.
By Charles Oxley on 07.21.08 10:19 pm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think that is only partly correct. China is a big customer of Iran’s oil, but Russia is a competitor in the oil markets. Iran buys technology and machinery from Russia since there is an embargo in the West on trade with Iran, so Russia may assist, but the Big Dragon will be Iran’s ally. Without Iran’s oil, China will have a very tough time with their new motorized population depending on gasoline and diesel.
If you get rid of the Senate entirely, you could save millions. Then you could have the MPs sit in the Senate chamber while the Commons is renovated. Then renovate the Senate but don’t let the Senate come back.
“inevitable”
BY GOT ROPE? 07.21.08 6:28 PM
Come on Got Rope, suck it up. We have a way – don’t be all pooped. BTW is that your website? Enjoyed it.
Only one way out these days. At this point we have fallen apart, although maybe not enough for Joe Public to catch on. After years of removing powers from the central government, we now know THAT is a bad idea. [It gives a diluted pool of provincial officials the chance to be influenced - and really screw up regulations and social assistance. Not only are they easier to corrupt, but now with an ‘expert’ in EACH province you don’t get the cream of crop, you get ten, lesser qualified people. And those nimrods are easier to bribe, trick or influence. Bad idea. Simply fix the federal government and get the best politicians.]
As far as how do we get a better economy for all? Election – but with a politician who stands up and tells the TRUTH about what’s going on.
Even if it fails the first time, at least the truth is out there. LOOK for honesty. And tell your friends and family to look for honesty. Maybe we’ll find it if our eyes and ears are open. And encourage others to stop being so lazy. It’s not like the info isn’t out there for all to find out what’s really going on in the world.
Mr. Turner:
I share your sense of awe – I still recall the feeling of peace I felt as a small boy listening to the carillon drive away the fear that leapt into my heart when I looked upon the fierce face that lives in the tower of the East Block.
There is magic in these buildings, and their preservation and renewal is a symbol that the essence that is, was, and hopefully will continue to be Canada endures. To refuse the picayune expense is to deny our heritage and to reinforce the belief that this is what a poster here called a “rat-shit country”.
This country was not built by people looking for a guarantee of recovering their investment in 3 years (these people worship that cad among gods, Mammon), no, it was built by leaps of faith and wild tosses of the dice and a look for the long haul – a return that happens not in your own time but in your children’s or even your grandchildren’s time (or maybe not even then but it was worth doing).
I use the word picayune to characterise the immense cost of renewing these buildings for a reason – we will piss away on the war in Afghanistan in the next twelve month’s enough money from the public purse to rebuild these buildings and buy the entire membership of the House of Commons a fortnight of debauchery in the most expensive house of ill repute on the face of the planet.
Very well written Garth!
I have walked that same trek in the past, looking up at the peace tower. It would be a shame if my grandchildren would not be able to this.
I completely support what ever it takes to renovate these historic buildings.
If the HoC is in such dire disrepair, where is the cost analysis that shows it is more cost effective to repair rather than replace it? The first Canadian Parliament buildings pre-confederation I believe are in Coburg, Ont. It might make more sense to design, build and maintain new modern architecture and in a location that is not on an active earthquake fault line, too!
The mid point of Canada is 10Km (6miles) East of Winnipeg, Mb if the sign on the Trans-Canada Hwy is correct, and that is not an earthquake prone zone. That is baldheaded Prairie with either a baking sun in Summer and blowing dust, or a bone chilling winter wonderland in Winter. It just might inspire MPs to get some work done!
I have visited the HoC with my children when Trudeau, Clark, and Broadbent were leaders. I am not impressed with old, history, and emotion. I am a fan of function, feasibility, and quality of performance/workmanship, physical and verbal!
Just maybe a move to a new venue might be the key to correcting the distinct ineptness of that sorry old institution!
Furthermore, I am not impressed that PMSH rejects repairing 22 Sussex Dr. which is possibly in a worse state of repair. Great stewardship, eh! Who let the dogs in?
If you get rid of the Senate entirely, you could save millions. Then you could have the MPs sit in the Senate chamber while the Commons is renovated. Then renovate the Senate but don’t let the Senate come back.
By Paully on 07.21.08 10:46 pm
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
I totally disagree with you. I have watched some of the Senate Committee hearings shown on CPAC TV. They are doing some very good work. What is wrong with our Senate is two fold:
-it is unelected
-it should have equal powers of legislation with the House and like Congress, discrepancies on various egislation would need to be negotiated. With an elected Senate, their vote if over a 67% majority would in effect be a veto. But then I am a revisionist by nature and want to amend God’s mistakes in the way he/she/it made the Universe! It does not meet my criteria!
I sense your melancholy sadness as you reminisce about the Parliament buildings …. as you share your parting thoughts with us.
Garth, we will all respect your final decision whenever you decide to make it official.
Politics has become an onerous activity in today’s climate of nastiness. You deserve better than whatever the Liberals or Conservatives have given you.
You have fought the good fight, and survived. Think of your family and your health .. both physical and mental. I know you will do the right thing, buddy.
(Have I served my time out yet?)
Are you quitting, Harry? — Garth
Sometimes we have to bite the bullet. This is one of those times. We cannot let our history fall to dust. Bad enough that PMSH wants to sell off our country. Or give it away would be more accurate. Whatever the cost – repairs must be done. And yes, we will bitch and complain when cost over-runs are brought to light but sometimes cost is not the is not the priority.
I mean no disrespect to anyone but the grandeur of the parliaments buildings on their own is magnificent.
The buildings have a life of their own regardless of whom has been in them.
The fact that these buildings are being allowed to crumble is a national disgrace and should be a scandal.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=20942883162
Well the American’s totally refurbished the statue of Liberty a massive undertaking .
I believe the whole effort was paid by donations and various levels of the government ,
Barb on 07.21.08 10:52
You could have posted your thoughts on the thread containing the conversation, I would have found it.
I can`t agree with your statement about removing powers from the central government, in fact the PM has gained the power of any dictator if for no other reason that the media which is supposed to keep the public informed but is bought and paid for by government, with our money.
Here`s another post I made on the original thread but later. You should consider the info before coming to the conclusion the federal government can be fixed and if you have a reply, post it on the same thread.
http://www.garth.ca/weblog/2008/07/20/how-they-end/#comments
got rope? on 07.21.08 10:19 pm
————
You said you`re a little new to blogging so you probably don`t know it`s not cool to bring new posting about past threads up to the new threads.
I`m sure you`ve heard the term troll. It is derived from the mythical troll hiding under the bridge and coming out to interrupt passage over the bridge, only here it`s the passage of ideas or discussions contrary to the particular trolls position. It can be differentiated from the kill joys by the number of snide, insulting remarks made in response.
One tactic is to bring up posts from previous topics***, another is to continually ask for links when they are readily available on Google and even when supplied the links the`re ignored till the procedure starts again usually with a denial the link contained the info forcing the author to back track, find the actual quote which is of course ignored again.
Anything to get as many nonsensical responses as possible is the goal as obvious outrageous statements soliciting many irrelevant responses can really doom a thread.
This blog has it all so if you want credibility here you really need to watch how your posts appear to the discerning reader.
Mr. Turner is you really want to know how our domacracy works read “the story of the committee of 300″ by Dr. John Coleman.
This book will turn your world upside down!
This site is threatened by a plan to end
the net as we know it.
http://realitycheck.typepad.com/
I spend no money on TV and mainstream media; they lie to me.
Please read this and act to protect Garth’s method of communication.
http://realitycheck.typepad.com/
. . . this is the U.K. and U.S. in two almost identical reports, but from separate sources . . .
http://tinyurl.com/56vznn
http://tinyurl.com/5bl3w2
. . . two paras. from this link are also quite revealing (paras. follow) . . .
http://tinyurl.com/5k8xho
“Mountain House claims this situation is due to a backlog of orders, which may very well be true, but who is purchasing all of their food? This is a massive global corporation.
“One idea: the military. Things are certainly ramping up with Iran and debates abound on news segments whether or not to implement a preemptive strike in conjunction with Israel.”
How about selling naming rights for the refurbished Parliament buildings? Bombardier House of Commons, Air Canada Peace Tower examples. NHL teams get 100 million plus over 20 odd years for naming rights for buildings. Everyone else is selling out, just a matter of time before government does the same.
Canada desperately needs symbols of its heritage. The meaning of this great land and the institutions of this wonderful nation are under constant attack from Harper and his zombies.
Canada needs its history for we can only understand our potential if we understand our past.
Its promises for the future stem from the visions of past leaders. There is little future on the horizon for us as we now have a government without vision, ethics or moral fiber.
We have no real leadership – only Harper’s crass opportunism.
We do have a vision that is emerging – one of a fairer, greener, and more socially just nation. We have a leader emerging who is more committed to doing what is right rather than simply that which is expedient and callous. We have Stephane Dion.
I’ve been there twice and you always feel like whispering least you disturb the ghosts of the past. Every penny spent preserving it is worth it. I am sure the military won’t mind giving up a bit of the 40 billion Harper has promised them to do the restorations.
According to the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives Canada’s military spending will reach $18.24 billion in 2007-08 and and will continue to rise to $19.418 billion by 2009-10. I certainly think we should rise to the occasion and spend a few billion fixing up these historic buildings. From what I read, I gather this is a non-partisan issue.
By Barb the proof-reader on 07.21.08 10:52 pm
Barb, have to agree with rope on this one, we have been trying your suggested ways for some 45 years I have been a voter and tend to end up with the same old, same old. To boot, over the last 20, the PMO has become the center of power. Candidates are shipped into ridings by party leaders. Something happens to most of those (so called) honest politicians when hit Ottawa. Suddenly they become instruments of the party leaders and vote as told.
Now my preference would be an independent government, Rope prefers a provincially appointed federal government. After viewing the progress or lack of it for the past 45 years, I would choose his way over yours. I would last of all prefer that democracy was real in Canada…but I am not holding my breath. Maybe because I am too close to the end to try something as silly as that. Then again maybe we all are but few of us recognize it.
Have a wonderful day….
Nor do I. To that I would add the perpetual neglect to the Prime Minister’s Residence that was reported earlier this year, the repair cost of which is minor in the grand scheme of things. There are few such architectural symbols in this country; they deserve our attention. The repairs to the PM’s residence could employ state-of-the-art energy conservation features and serve as a symbol in another sense – I heard a few weeks ago about a club in the UK that has a pezioelectric dance floor that supplies 60% of its energy requirements; maybe there’s an analogous way of capturing all that hot air that gets expired at 24 Sussex.
Nor do I. To that I would add the perpetual neglect to the Prime Minister’s Residence that was reported earlier this year, the repair cost of which is minor in the grand scheme of things. There are few such architectural symbols in this country; they deserve our attention. The repairs to the PM’s residence could employ state-of-the-art energy conservation features and serve as a symbol in another sense – I heard a few weeks ago about a club in the UK that has a pezioelectric dance floor that supplies 60% of its energy requirements; maybe there’s an analogous way of capturing all that hot air that gets expired at 24 Sussex.
This a no brainer. Repair and restore it and while you are at it, Sussex Drive and Stornaway as well. It may be a good idea to have Rideau Hall looked at as well. People talk about Canadian values and traditions, well these are as traditional as we can get. If the British parliament buildings or the US Capitol building can last for many centuries then no reason for ours to collapse.
CPC claims “in & out scheme used in 2004 & 2006 elections” not found by Elections Canada Investigator….
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=2e5ed325-ca37-44d8-ab15-e23b289f16da
Sad thing is if it were a private non government job it would be half price. Government always pays double.
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2008/06/11/pricegap.html
Could be why some Canadians are reluctant to buy Canadian goods….
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2008/06/11/pricegap.html
This is why GM is doomed to failure and more Canadian jobs will be lost!
Sorry, the GM link did not come up…
it says they are going to build the Camaro in Canada with minimum 3.7 litre engines….just what the consumer is looking for with gas at $1.40….
is the main cost the removal of the asbestos?
the asbestos that canada still sells abroad? the asbestos that gave mp chuck stahl cancer.
asbestos is a time bomb. most building have asbestos components.
it gets old, turns to dust and people breath it in. it causes several types of cancer.
like thalodimide, aluminum wiring, the toxic plastics for food packaging, no mad cow testing, it shows the incompetence of government.
i have an idea to save money. dress up the mps in striped suits and get them to remove the asbestos. the asbestos that the rest of us must live with.
Why not just erect a big circus tent and charge admission to watch you clowns at work. In the long run it would be cheaper than wasting our tax money to fix something that now houses a bunch of self-serving egomaniacs that care more about gold plated pensions than the plight of the country.
Seems like a great deal of space for a one man government to need. There must be tool shed somewhere on the grounds.
Well, Garth, finally something on which you and I agree – the parliament buildings should definitely be restored. Not only are they beautiful but they are a link to our past. Canada started out small but these buildings reflect the grandeur of our country and the spirit that built it. The earliest settlers, the immigrants who came here with nothing (my grandparents, for example),the resources, the beauty…I could go on and on about Canada. Restore or replace? No discussion. Sometimes, it is worth it to restore and forget about replacing. I agree with you wholeheartedly – they are awesome and breathtaking and to lose them would be a national shame.
I also believe that we should not be in Afghanistan – we are losing soldiers in a war which will not benefit our country at all plus I doubt very much if the people really want westerners in their country – certainly the vast majority are not cooperating otherwise the Taliban would be eliminated. If we wish to liberate any people, I’d say go to Zimbabwe. Or, better still, put a little more into our own country.
I agree with Gary V – government contracts are always so astronomical. Why is it that a private builder can build a new structure or restore an existing one for a couple of million but the cost to the government runs into the tens of millions? There is definitely something wrong with the contracting process somewhere along the line. Same as the city – a million dollars to lay a kilometer of asphalt but a privately-owned industrial park can do the same thing for much less.
Reverse the Emphasis,
great handle, but do reverse the emphasis:
If you think that Russia will be disinterested in a US-led war on a country bordering on a couple of former Soviet republics, I have a great mortgage for you: nothing down, take forever to repay.
I find security in the fact that the USA couldn’t handle a war on Iran that goes beyond air sorties. The Bush Administration might resort to some of those to revive domestic support for its GWOT, but it is running out of time and steam to do more damage to international relations.
(Have I served my time out yet?
By Harry S on 07.21.08 11:19 pm
Humbling and diminishing at the same time! I will not view Harry S. in the same way.
It is our history and you can’t bring it back once you let it go. Why can’t a committee be formed to get creative about resorting our history. Fundraisers, create jobs, etc.
The British burned down the first White House and the Americans rebuilt it. FDR created jobs during the depression by making roads, etc.
I’m sure there are enough rich people in Canada who could donate, involve themselves in fundraisers. Make it a positive project instead of looking at it as a problem.
Take some pride in Canada folks – ther countries take care of their historical buildings.
Off Topic,
BUT… an example of the leadership our federal politicians should be demonstrating. I am not from Ontario, and do not care who this guy is, but at least he is showing what can be done!
“GREEN JOBS, NEW PLANT COMING TO VAUGHAN
McGuinty Government Investing In Next Generation Manufacturing
NEWS
Ontario is creating new jobs in green industries by supporting an innovator in solar power energy.
The province is investing nearly $8 million in 6N Silicon to help create sustainable jobs for skilled workers. This investment supports 6N’s $50-million expansion. The company is opening a new manufacturing plant in Vaughan and creating 84 new jobs.
(snip)
The government’s investment comes from the Next Generation of Jobs Fund, which supports Ontario-based companies looking to invest in clean cars, fuels, technologies and products. The fund is part of a broader plan to retool workers and stimulate the province’s changing economy.”
http://www.premier.gov.on.ca/news/Product.asp?ProductID=2366
Now, if only Harpo had not emptied the cupboard trying to buy votes, and if only Birdy-boo had some intelligence instead of crude belligerence.
Thank goodness that the provincial politicians are way ahead of those idiots they call the CPC.
And, a reason to TAX POLLUTERS so we have the funds to finance these initiatives.
My sense of these buildings is heightened, because I’ve been afforded the honour of working in them. Perhaps you have been there, and feel it, too. It would be a great shame, fifty or a hundred years from now, if MPs were not able to stop on a busy day, look up, and feel so small. – Garth
On the contrary Garth, I think it’s crucial that all politicians of whatever stripe should feel “small” in the scheme of things whenever they contemplate Parliament, its history, its purpose and its goals. Lately, it seems to me that there are too many (no, you are not one of them) who are feeling a great deal to big and important. When they look down from their great height above us, the citizens of Canada, they show that they have lost whatever perspective they once had about their place in our political system. On the other hand, we the citizenry are to blame too. Some wag once said you can only be treated like a doormat as long as you lie down.
These buildings are symbolic of our country. Why haven’t we sold them off yet? Charge admission to the ruins.
MPs don’t need huge stone buildings to feel small.
Go forward 
parliamentarians and move your sad spectacle into a vacant Call Centre office building. Each Member can have their own cubicle and the House and Senate can meet in cosy conference spaces. Canada has downsized, get used to it.
Canada is setting an example – to avoid
by ANDY HOFFMAN – From Tuesday’s Globe and Mail
Put a guard on those sad brass angels. We’ve gotten to the point where fire hydrants, manhole covers, piping from food banks, and heroic plaques are being stolen and smelted for profit.
My sense of these buildings is heightened, because I’ve been afforded the honour of working in them. Perhaps you have been there, and feel it, too. It would be a great shame, fifty or a hundred years from now, if MPs were not able to stop on a busy day, look up, and feel so small.
posted by Garth Turner on 07.21.08 @ 9:48 pm
Garth,
Yes, I have been there several times. The buildings are truly monuments to a bygone era when real architecture created magnificient buildings. The buildings, however, are never what makes Canada great. That is like believing that a great church building is more Holy than a single person who truly loves God.
I know the feeling you get when you look up, especially at the Peace Tower that one gets walking through the halls, and looks at the well worn steps; the great sculpture that speaks of poise and eloquence. Unfortunately, I have to wonder how many ‘feel small’? The current residents of Parliament have such huge egos that I doubt they do even bother to look up to relate their own self to the history. This I firmly believe is true of Stephen Harper and his front benchers. They are not seeing Canada and its history in the buildings, they are seeing their well exhibited lust for power which I believe is driven by hate and ignorance. I would say the birds who nest in the nooks and crannies of the buildings have more class and beauty than Harper and his front benchers.
Funny how the Office of The Prime Minister can be regarded with deep respect, but the person in that office must EARN the respect of the people. That remains one of the great dichotomies of reality. Gone are the days when people automatically give homage to the person because of a title. We have seen far too many abuses done in the name of an ‘office’.
Perhaps that is why, when we see the rampant partisanship that goes against the best interests of Canadians, and it will always be the people who make this country great, not politicians, we get pretty pissed off at the lack of respect we see towards ourselves and our nation’s history. At least I do.
That was well exhibited in the movie ‘V is for vendetta’ where the victim of blatant government arrogance blows up their buildings and exposes them to rot. Those buildings were not halls of integrity, but halls of deception and abuse. What do our’s represent in this day and age? That is the real question as to their true value other than monumental eye candy.
As top spending mponey on them. There is a time and place, and because of a failure by those whose duty it was to preserve them in the past, now is a bad time, but an absolute necessity to do so. Pretty much like most the infrastructure inour major cities which only gets attention when chunk of it start falling down. A perfect example of the piss poor reactionary attitude of government. I have to wonder if they bother to change the oil in their vehicles until it either runs out or the ‘Check Engine Soon’ light comes on? The ‘Check Engine Soon’ light has been ON for a long time for Parliament Hill.
Though we don’t seem to agree on much anymore (we did once upon a time), I must say that this is one area where we’re in agreement… our Parliament is one of the few magnificient symbols we have of this great nation, and they need to be properly restored.
Haven’t you resigned yet?
Garth
Thank you for the post on our national treasure. The heart of the matter is national pride and not the usual outcry of the costs. Unfortunately, governments never want to spend money on the people’s historic places like the Parliament buildings, 24 Sussex or Stornaway in fear of appearing frivolous to the electorate.
But since we know that minority governments may be here for awhile why not draft a private member’s bill? I think it would be hard, even for the Bloc to defeat a bill to preserve those hallowed halls.
I have only been to Ottawa once, on a day trip and spent hours on the Hill. If all Canadians had that opportunity I believe they would insist on the buildings preservation.
Can you imagine if a Prime Minister wanted to build an intercontinental railway across Canada today? That’s exactly what we need to do only this time, it will be an electricity grid using various sustainable solutions.
My point? We need to preserve our history in order to dare to change our future.
Asbestos – the Canadian Armed Forces married quarters at CFB Shilo, Kingston and Montréal had their asbestos “remediated”. A fancy word for sealing it up with plastic. Good for 25 years undisturbed, they say.
Parliament building are hazardous and certainly not energy efficient .. and wasteful of good real estate land. They should be razed to the ground and a sleek, new modern building(s) erected to symbolize the Canada of the future.
People who are mired in objects from the past are essentially ‘backward thinkers’ … those who would ruminate over the past and cherish ‘junk’ … I think they are called ‘historians’.
When you are faced with ancient buildings, relics of the past, you must be pragmatic and deal brutally with something that is not only structurally dangerous but also irrational. It is certainly not ‘progressive’ to attempt restoring the derelict and defunct Parliament buildings. It’s like pouring money down a black hole, which is reminiscent of several of our past governments.
Tear it down and replace it with a building loaded with solar heating panels and even a wind turbine on top … and designed to be greener, cleaner and saner.
Hi John Duddy on 07.22.08 1:16 am
Hi Charles Oxley on 07.22.08 1:16 am
Thanks for the links. (Unfortunately it’s not good news.)
Have you seen these real, realy small RFID chips?
RFID Power
More than 22 million visitors attended the Expo 2005 World’s Fair in Aichi, Japan. Not one got in with a bogus ticket. The passes were practically impossible to forge because each harbored a tiny RFID (radio-frequency identification) chip – just 0.4 millimeter (mm) on a side and 0.06 mm thick – that transmitted a unique identification number via radio waves to a scanner at the gates.
Now Hitachi, the maker of that chip, is aiming even smaller. Last year it announced a working version of a chip only 0.05 mm on a side and 0.005 mm thick. Almost invisible, this prototype has one sixty-fourth the area yet incorporates the same functions as the one in the Expo tickets. Its minuteness, which will allow it to be embedded in ordinary sheets of paper
(and cash Money).
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=rfid-power
More links below to atricals on RFID Chip technology and some implications to think about.
Sensors and Sensibility
It’s alarming! It’s no big deal! How your personal information is being collected and protected, used and misused.
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jul04/5088
Putting Wireless Power To Work
Smart sensors harvest radio-frequency energy.
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jun08/6254
Big Brother at Work
New surveillance tools and a lack of regulation give employers the upper hand
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/dec04/3852
We like to watch
Ubiquitous sensors and massive interlinked databases are propelling us into the post-Orwellian era. Are we ready to know everything about each other?
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/archive/1583
RFID inside
The murky ethics of implanted chips
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/mar07/4939
Do-It-Yourself RFID
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/mar07/4936
It’s amazing how regressive the forum ‘liberals’ are about restoring the failing past … while forum ‘conservatives’ are forward thinking a want to create a newer, cleaner, fairer Canada.
Liberals seem to cling to their past glory and want to restore and resume their covert and illicit practices by tricking Canadians with liberal promises which are nothing more than more of the same corruption.
The current Liberal party urgently needs a rebuild, a renewal, a cleaning out of it’s past which still resides in it’s ranks. Go for it, Garth .. udaman …!!!
An interesting quote from Naomi Klein’s ‘The Shock Doctrine’:
“Conservatives cannot govern well for the same reason that vegetarians cannot prepare a world-class boeuf bourguignon: if you believe that what you are called upon to do is wrong, you are unlikely to do it very well.” – Michael Wolfe
I trust the conservatives referenced here are of the neo variety. There have been many progressive conservatives that believe in good governance and in the rule of law.
Today’s discussion reinforces the notion of Harper’s government as being allied with the American neo-conservative agenda of creating shock and awe in the people to take advantage of their fear to bring in a new world order where rights are trampled and wealth transfers to the most powerful.
Forgive me for a long entry, but the issue of national symbols reminds me of a story from a few years back.
I was at a 40th birthday party for a friend. At the party, which also occurred a few days after Canada Day, I had the good fortune of meeting a lovely couple from Calgary. They’d come to town for the birthday (a surprise) and to visit with family who’d move hither and yon and were now in Ottawa.
As a scholar of Canada and Quebec’s history, having traveled coast to coast twice, and working in the bureaucracy, I was asking about their life out west, the then coming boom in the oil sands, as well as other general topics. They seemed like nice people.
I asked if they’d taken in the festivities at Major’s Hill and Parliament Hill. I was surprised when their faces clouded over, and almost identical sneers crossed their lips. They snorted. Huffed. Guffawed. To my surprise, they launched into a diatribe about taxpayers money misspent in Ottawa to hold a fireworks display and paint up kids faces like lions and tigers. As the screed continued, I became increasingly despondent.
I interjected with a simple rebuttal that is all you need to know about countries, national symbols, and whether you actually have a valid position or just some farcical problem cooked up by small (Reform) minds looking to get into power: “This is your nation’s capital. You may have an issue with the term nation, but you can not have an issue with this place being your capital. If we do not do it right, here, there is no country to call Canada.”
It got her thinking. He, blunted by a counter to his thinking, turned on a ugly note about the number of immigrants in Ottawa taking good paying jobs, like taxi driving, and meandered off (I got him later on that point, and thoroughly dressed him down for a) such a blatantly untrue remark and b) explaining to him that comments like that are borderline racist).
She looked at me, and was about to speak, when I added. “I am also an American. Do you know what the papers read in the U.S. when Washington D.C. is outdone by other cities on their July 4th celebration? It’s ugly.”
This is our capital. Despite the Prime Minister’s neo-conservative agenda, this fact can’t be changed. You stand by your national symbols, and you make it clear that Canadians have an obligation to visit them as patriots. Period.
Garth,
I know in the heady world of Oddawahaha a Billion dollars is peanuts, but in the real world there are far better uses it can be out to…like preserving people’s lives.
Unfortunately, government always waits until a crisis happens and then the cost is many times greater than preventive maintenance would have cost. pretty much like running your vehicle into the ground instead of performing routine preventive maintenance. but then we all know that partisan politics has never served the people worth damn.
Visionaries are not the form of politicians we generally have. Sad!
Have fun folks. We are headed to the Eagles Concert.
“Show me a country that has no past and I will show a country with no future” I do not know the author but perhaps it says it all………
Thanks Garth…well spoke and written, your love and concern for this fine country and it’s instruments of power are well founded.
What a stupid idea. We did that here in Alberta. When the good times came, everything cost triple or more what it would have if we’d bit the bullet and done it sooner. Deterioration accelerates if it’s not dealt with promptly, and construction costs balloon during booms.
Completing major public works during a recession is not only good fiscal policy, as it is cheaper, but also good social policy, as it helps support the economy. Would you rather that construction workers collect EI, or get to work on much needed repairs to some of the few truly historic buildings still standing in this country?
Hi Charles Oxley on 07.21.08 7:33 pm
Thanks for the link yesterday.
http://tinyurl.com/6qvtjr
The radio caller seems to be in Plato’s cave still.
‘Plato’s: Allegory of the Cave.’ 7min.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ei7LqbYb8M&feature=related
Perhaps the callers IQ was permanently lowered by drinking Fluoridated water as an infant! For more good info.
http://www.fluoridealert.org/
There is a conferance in Aug on the Fluoride issue in Toronto!
Is your town councilors and public health persons going to get the facts?
Do they even know about the facts?
Let them know and tell them to stop adding this toxic waste to our water NOW!
http://www.fluoridealert.org/conference2008/
Mr Garth TurnerMP,
Have you seen this yet?
Excellent Ron Paul Video Banned, ~10min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF3nBnhwwaE&feature=related
Sorry about completing that last thought at 10:28. It was in reference to the destruction of the existing order, as seen in infrastructure, governance, economics, and security. The Harper government will not lift a finger to conserve the parliament buildings because as Harry points out they are outmoded – a reminder of a more settled, prosperous time, when resources were plentiful and artisans took pride in their work. And farmers, Leasa, while undervalued, were the foundation of community values, exhibiting perseverance, faith, and a great willingness to work together for a common purpose.
Garth,
I like what you wrote above but like most of your writings, there is a subtle pessimism about Canada.
Canada is more solid than you think, have confidence in that.
Personally, I think Canada has lots of symbols, many of which are not man made or high on optics but they are there. I realised that after living abroad for several years.
For instance, “The turner report” which gives average Joe’s like myself a voice in democracy; is slowly becoming a Canadian symbol. Don’t you think Sir John A. MacDonald would be envious at how easily you interact, on a daily basis, with the people who put you in Parliament. And the name “Turner” is much more recognisable today than it was during the 1980s….your political prime is now! You are worthy.
I do respect your views even if I do not always share them.
Daryn
The current Liberal party urgently needs a rebuild, a renewal, a cleaning out of it’s past which still resides in it’s ranks. Go for it, Garth .. udaman …!!!
Didn’t take Harry long to get back to what he does best…bashing anything Liberal…welcome back, and reminding us why we need to vote ABC!!!!
The Parliament buildings are truly magnificent, both inside and outside. The visibly huge cost to restore them is scary, though, and you have to wonder why it has to be so steep when private companies get work done so much more cheaply, but it is most important to keep those symbols standing strong. The repairs and upgrades to the library were equally important and the result is a job well done, and hopefully one that will last a good while longer.
Garth, you speak of the “gold pile” that was once stored in those massive vaults. This “barbaric relic” has since been replaced with far more sophisticated wealth mechanisms which are understood by few but dictate to many.
In the same manner, Parliamentarians have been replaced by behind-the-scenes, closed door, elite corporate planners, advisory think tanks, and a bueraucratic multi-national framework that dictates policy for the multitude. Policy is left to the judgement of a well chosen advisory panel. You, our elected representatives, have become the “barbaric relics” of our outsourced future.
These buildings are history, they reflect the neglect, waste and corruption of our present. Where is the future?
I wonder of Stonehenge suffered the same level of controversy.
The Ugly Spin
Global TV had a segment on children as young as engaging in sex on dates. Shocking enough to get my attention. This was combined with dating violence which made the impact even greater. Most of the visuals we opinions by adults to the faces of many young girls and their stories who are victims of dating violence.
Because only the girls were exhibited as dating violence victims it could very well be interpreted as boys are bad girls are victims. As this was intermixed with 11 year olds dating the inferences could well be carried over as the boys are the problem.
The problem is almost entirely within the two million single parent children that hold the highest number of parent denied children in Cdn history. They lack parenting which is the primary cause of 11 year olds dating and increases in dating violence. There certainly are people that need to take responsibility for a generation that will be outnumbered by seniors having no moral code or direction and it sure as hell isn`t the boys or the missing fathers.
The crime statistics and increases in mischief hold the story on the results of the unconstitutional use of sole custody. These links, some of many, on the truth on dating violence.
=====================
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/ID16.pdf
Prevalence of Violence Against
Dating Partners by Male and Female
University Students Worldwide
MURRAY A. STRAUS
University of New Hainpshire
Perhaps tile most important similarity is the high rate of assault perpetrated by both male and female
students in all the countries
========================
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10396934
“Domestic violence goes both ways, study finds
12:00AM Saturday August 19, 2006
Where only one partner in a relationship is violent, it is more likely to be the woman, University of Otago researchers have found.
=============
And to think it`s our tax dollars paying to make the trash Global TV feeds Cdns.
If your not standing up for our children your not any better than the abusers that are using them, stop the lies.
First line in post `ugly spin` should read as young as 11 years old
My great grandfather was elected to the 1867 parliment to represent the district of Algoma. I think that we need to preserve the icons of Canada which include the buildings which house our parliment. While the citizens of Canada are the important part of our democratic process, the buildings which house our representatives is the monument to the democratic process. Do NOT let it crumble.
Tear it down and replace it with a building loaded with solar heating panels and even a wind turbine on top … and designed to be greener, cleaner and saner.
By HARRY S on 07.22.08 10:17 am
and maybe move it to Calgary?
The current Liberal party urgently needs a rebuild, a renewal, a cleaning out of it’s past which still resides in it’s ranks. Go for it, Garth .. udaman …!!!
By HARRY S on 07.22.08 10:26 am
How crazy is that Harry S.? Thats like the conservatives who were previously the P.C’s, The Reform, The COR, The Alliance, then the Conservatives. Did ya get it right yet Harry?
Of course we should fix the Parliament buildings. A national project to employ all those skilled workmen (workpeople?) that are looking for something to do after the collapsing housing market, all those stonemasons (use ‘em or lose ‘em), carpenters, finishers, glaziers – and on and on.
Damn sight better thing to do than lobbing expensive armaments around in a country that loathes us a bit more each time more civlians die.
Scott Taylor wrote a piece about Afghanistan yesterday.
NGO works to restore basics in dangerous region
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Opinion/1068740.html
We could get the soldiers out of there, pour money into NGO’s such as the one Taylor writes about instead of arms dealers and peddlers of WMD’s and have enough to redo the Parliament buildings completely and throw in solar, wind and geothermal energy while we’re at it.
That Herc will be flying over here sometime in the next couple of hours, bringing the latest soldier back to Canadian soil. The Peace Tower book of remembrance makes me sad, the Remembrance Day ceremonies bring tears to my eyes, but those rumbling planes are just about finishing me.
According to the Globe and Mail and with info gathered by freedom of information requests, Harper and the boys have already bailed on Afghanistan. Too bad they didn’t tell the soldiers.
Canada’s once-lofty Afghan goals downgraded, defence files show
“…[C]ritics say the contrast shows how much the Harper government has ratcheted down ambitions for Afghanistan, lowering expectations so that it can’t be accused of failure when Canada withdraws from Kandahar in 2011.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080722.wafghan22/BNStory/Afghanistan/home
James Laxer talks about Harper manipulating the media (Korn Kob Kory is the latest recruit to that noble calling) to make it appear things are going swimmingly. Natynczyk did the fastest about face on that message I’ve ever seen. Wonderful one day, lousy the next.
And all to support a pipeline.
I’m so proud.
It’s time to recalibrate Canada’s mission
JAMES LAXER
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080722.wcoafghan22/BNStory/Afghanistan
“The Harper government has hunkered down on the issue of Afghanistan — committed to keeping Canadian troops on the front line there until at least 2011. The government has constructed its own sanitized version of events in the country while steadfastly ignoring reality. Tragically, Canadians continue to die in the conflict — 88 soldiers to date — earning us the dubious distinction of the highest per-capita death toll of any NATO member in the war…”
“…[A]t what are called “message events” where journalists are updated on developments in Afghanistan, officials from Foreign Affairs, National Defence and the Canadian International Development Agency are to present the government line following “dry runs” to make sure the briefing motivates journalists to adopt what is called the “desired sound bite.” The sound bite includes a reference to restoring “the rule of law” in Afghanistan as a primary Canadian objective.”
“…[T]he truth is, the regime we are supporting in Kabul is not committed to a version of the rule of law that is remotely compatible with our own. Even the post-Taliban constitution of Afghanistan is based on sharia law. Under the law, rejecting Islam is punishable by death…”
“…[W]hen a settlement does come in Afghanistan, and one is certainly possible between the Karzai government and elements of the Taliban, it will not create a country that is firmly on the road to democracy and a regime based on the rule of law and respect for the rights of women as the Harper government would have us believe.
Hasn’t the time come for us to end the bleeding of our soldiers in a conflict in which our vital interests are not at stake and the side on which we are fighting upholds values that are remote from our own?”
—–
As the Australian commentator said regarding the changing nature of the Australian Victoria Cross, that “the best one is the one that is never awarded”, I’ll paraphrase and say that the best war is the one that is never fought.
“It’s amazing how regressive the forum ‘liberals’ are about restoring the failing past … while forum ‘conservatives’ are forward thinking a want to create a newer, cleaner, fairer Canada.”
Any other shit you are going to serve us to-day, Hairy?
The current Liberal party urgently needs a rebuild, a renewal, a cleaning out of it’s past which still resides in it’s ranks. Go for it, Garth .. udaman …!!!
By HARRY S on 07.22.08 10:26 am
Harry S – you really are a useless twit……you’re just trying to raise the ire of people.
Here’s a suggestion – don’t go away mad, just go away. You contribute absolutely nothing. By the way, what is your ancestry – are you ashamed – you never answer that question. Could that be the reason you hate Canada and don’t care about its history?
Is this the price we pay for good government???
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/story.html?id=2e5ed325-ca37-44d8-ab15-e23b289f16da
Thanks Garth…your article touched me and members of my family.
I remember my first visit to the parliament buildings in my youth. They were as awe-inspiring then as they were on my recent visit this Spring. In particular the library that didn’t burn down when the rest of the parliament buildings did with its intricate wood carvings inside done by Canadian artisans. Yes, I did laugh when I saw the stone carvings with the faces of their carver Canadians in the lobbies.
There have to be funds from the sale of Canada’s tax-payer funded assets that were recently sold by this Conservative government (that I sent several e-mails to my MP objecting to their sale.) Use some of those monies to repair and restore it to being pristine while updating and adding new technology. While they’re busy restoring Parliament, please also restore 24 Sussex Drive and other buildings that have been left to deteriorate and ensure included in federal budgets are funds for them to be maintained.
Parliament was built by Canadians using Canadian materials … please ensure as an MP that wonderful edifice is available for my grandchildren’s progeny to view.
There are some things such as keeping history alive that can’t be measured in dollars in cents. Spend whatever is needed instead of paying down the debt!
I did so admire those fantastic buildings that I collected Internet pictures of it and made up a pictorial diary at a US news forum that I belong to of some of the rooms.
That diary is just a snapshot of some of its majesty. What’s in those buildings can’t be measured in dollars.
At Christmas, the halls are lined with Christmas trees festooned with miniature, twinkling, white lights with the only other ornamentation being red, velvet ribbons.
Garth, what a honour it must be to walk those halls on a daily basis.
ABCP Bagholders of last resort: Pensioners
Writedowns erase government pension fund’s profit by BOYD ERMAN, ReportonBusiness.com
It seems only last month another authorized spokesperson on the Cdn economy said, `consumer spending will keep Canada out of recession`.
http://tinyurl.com/65gu2f
Retail sales show slack gain in May
Tue Jul 22, 9:55 AM
The Canadian Press
Royal Bank economist Paul Ferley noted that a strengthening of the econony over the second half of this year “is far from assured”.
————
I said at the time we`re exporters so the meager amount Cdns spend is won`t make a noticeable difference. Besides I always check out the number of customers and never miss an opportunity to ask, hows business? Old habit from being a local entrepreneur for many years keeping an eye on business conditions and it`s been tightening for the last 3 years with a noticeable downturn over the last several months. The `experts` should get out more, have a look at the economy down on the street, but then when you`ve got lots of money, a great pension and probably a golden parachute why bother.
Have we had enough lies about the Cdn economy, the global economy, and the state of our national social problems, like our childrens futures to make the changes required? Before whats left of our ability to make changes goes down the drain with our economy and change is forced?
Better think hard and fast on that.
Well , perhaps we should turn to the British Houses of Parliament to learn a few answers,and lessons, on how to maintain the Parliament buildings .
They must have a yearly budget and a budget for extraordinary maintenance .
The buildings are a priceless symbol of Canada and Canadians .
The buildings must be refurbished to today’s standard .
Forget about modernizing .
The current Liberal party urgently needs a rebuild, a renewal, a cleaning out of it’s past which still resides in it’s ranks. Go for it, Garth .. udaman …!!!
By HARRY S on 07.22.08 10:26 am
And you are badly in need of electro shock therapy .
You weren’t missed moron . Believe me !
I just can’t resist posting one more picture…
I would imagine Janine Kriever Dion added some of her acrylic paintings to the walls.
Pictures of the Dion’s official dining room at Stornoway:
http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/sylley2000/Dion_dining_room.jpg
—–
I’ve also been painting since I was ten-years-old. My first art lessons were using oil paints when we got a TV. I no longer use that medium…switched to watercolours and acrylics a number of years ago because of their immediacy and being able to paint without spending as much time keeping the tools to do them clean.
Garth…how many times have you had the privilege of having dinner in those surroundings?
Why not just erect a big circus tent and charge admission to watch you clowns at work. In the long run it would be cheaper than wasting our tax money to fix something that now houses a bunch of self-serving egomaniacs that care more about gold plated pensions than the plight of the country.
By Brian Wilson on 07.22.08 8:34 am
Sure thing Bozo . King of the clowns .
Harry is not the only nonsensical one on this blog, let me tell you. There are a lot of pubescent and adolescent twits who post comments. Harry, at least, is funny at times. I believe in free speech but it’s too bad that Garth cannot separate out the irrational and ridiculous, not to mention often offensive, comments.
And I just have to say this: loose and lose are two different words. Why is it that so many people use loose in place of lose? And, an apostrophe does not a plural make. Whatever happened to the ability to spell and compose?
Well the American’s totally refurbished the statue of Liberty a massive undertaking .
I believe the whole effort was paid by donations and various levels of the government ,
By Men With Hats on 07.22.08 12:08 am
There’s a good thought. I would certainly be prepared to contribute to a fund for the preservation of such objects in the national capital and elsewhere.
Jim Muldowney
Edmonton
Instead, Canada spends approx. $100 mln. / month on an illegal and unjustified war in Af’stan, which will never end. By Charles.
The Afghanistan war is in accordance with Art. 5 of the Nato Charter and is sanctioned by the UN. You can’t get much more legal than that.
Politics has become an onerous activity in today’s climate of nastiness. You deserve better than whatever the Liberals or Conservatives have given you.
By Harry S on 07.21.08 11:19 pm
And he sure as hell deserves better than all the bullshit you have shovelled and thrown at Garth .
Demanding attention . Making threatening statements .Alluding to Garth as being stupid for being a member of the Liberal party .
You have a lot of nerve .
Thats like the conservatives who were previously the P.C’s, The Reform, The COR, The Alliance, then the Conservatives. Did ya get it right yet Harry?
BY ATORYNOMORE ON 07.22.08 12:12 PM
Actual if you had checked history you would have found that the Progressive Conservatives were Conservatives before they were Progressive Conservatives.
Alluding to Garth as being stupid for being a member of the Liberal party .
You have a lot of nerve .
BY MEN WITH HATS ON 07.22.08 2:12 PM
There is no difference when called me an idiot.
And I just have to say this: loose and lose are two different words. Why is it that so many people use loose in place of lose? And, an apostrophe does not a plural make. Whatever happened to the ability to spell and compose?
By forevergreen2000 on 07.22.08 1:57 pm
This ain’t English class . Nice that Hairy has a fan .
By wjp on 07.22.08 8:20 am
Did they say how many Camero’s they were going to build? I doubt it will be a mass product, catering only to the select few gear heads who can afford to put gas in the things.
Whatever happened to the ability to spell and compose?
By forevergreen2000 on 07.22.08 1:57 pm
My father left school in grade 5 to help support the family, a practice still found today. I was a polio child and was bullied out of school after grade 8 by English teachers because I couldn`t write at all and could barely print.
Even though I`ve extensively educated myself I`m still having a mental block with English but thankfully along came the PC and spell check, sorry I can`t fix the syntax errors.
Have you lead a sheltered life, or is that led a sheltered life?
In historical terms, Canada is a young country. One of the issues we have is what constitute a heritage building.
One recent one was the childhood home of Paul Martin Jr in Windsor. Should it be preserved for future gerenations, or is it just another building for the current owners to do as they wish?
The same discussion seems to hapen when any building older than 80 years is scheduled for demolition, as the historians/conservationists don’t wnat any of Canada’s short history destroyed.
When it comes to Parliament, these must be at the top of the list, these buildings have housed the democratic process that is Canada. Given the size of government spending, $1 Billion over 15 years is not that much. Just review all the various spending announcements PMSH and his predecessors have made over the past 10/15 years on their own pet projects; the renovations could have been paid for many times over.
And, an apostrophe does not a plural make.
By forevergreen2000 on 07.22.08 1:57 pm
If you are going to try and teach English, do you not think you should give the correct information ?
To show plural possession, make the noun plural first. Then immediately use the apostrophe.
Examples:
two boys’ hats
two women’s hats
two actresses’ hats
two children’s hats
the Changs’ house
the Joneses’ golf clubs
the Strauses’ daughter
This is the correct usage of the apostrophe in pluralization .
My father left school in grade 5 to help support the family, a practice still found today. I was a polio child and was bullied out of school after grade 8 by English teachers because I couldn`t write at all and could barely print.
Even though I`ve extensively educated myself I`m still having a mental block with English but thankfully along came the PC and spell check, sorry I can`t fix the syntax errors.
Have you lead a sheltered life, or is that led a sheltered life?
By got rope? on 07.22.08 2:42 pm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hey, Rope, some of the world will always get hung upon nit picking perfectionism. That can be damaging to young people growing up as I know!
Then there are those of us who can read between the lines and decipher the possible meanings and the likely intended one. It helps to be a punster!
I supervised a man in QC Inspection work, that could not spell his way “out of a wet paper bag” but I never once misunderstood the content and meaning of his shift reports. I would rather of had ten more like him than one or two of his devious colleagues who would obfuscate and procrastinate telling what had happened! He and his wife have retired back to Malta to enjoy their well earned pensions, including a partial Cdn. military pension.
As for the handicaps of surviving polio, I have known several people including my father-inlaw. They tend to do a better job of making do, than many of us that don’t have an excuse and are constantly looking for one! Just ignore the infidels!
Even though I`ve extensively educated myself I`m still having a mental block with English but thankfully along came the PC and spell check, sorry I can`t fix the syntax errors.
Have you lead a sheltered life, or is that led a sheltered life?
By got rope? on 07.22.08 2:42 pm
You are an excellent writer . Your grammar is spot on .Therefore your syntax is fine. Correct answer is lead ,
LED is a light emitting diode . FYI .
Garth … this topic is also about ‘renewal’ and ‘rebuilding’.
Would you be prepared to stay in opposition for another 4 years and then emerge within a new and vibrant Liberal party ready to govern Canada ??!!!
Out with the ‘old’ and in with the ‘new’..!!!!!
With respect to those who are at home on a computer and posses the skills of the King’s English I tip me hat. I have been known to chat a lot but it has also engaged me conversation with some very interesting and well read persons least of all was my mother who had a book by her side when she died at the age 99 and once told me she always had one since she first learned to read. So Garth Turner your blog provides more than just a political venue for we few junkies of the same persuasion.
Got Rope and WJP,
Sorry, Rope for not knowing the ropes. Call me a rebel sans rules, yet I appreciate the lesson. I’d observed much of what you say.. but thanks for the brief.
Okay you two, and others. Let’s have a revolution. Well, that would be my preference, but since it’s not possible, then look closer at the problem.
WJP, you are wise, but don’t let it slip from your mind that the politics you describe didn’t happen in a vacuum. There’s a corrupt system to the south of us. Which obviously seeped north. One of the results is ‘ultra’ negative politics. So, for quite awhile, when all the MPs don’t fall in line, the feigned outrage and abuse from the opposition gets press, and voters confuse that dissent is bad. Of course it’s not. But voters have been dumbed-down to think that dissent is a weakness, not a strength. I blame the voters. If politicians over the past 4 decades could always speak up, they would. Instead, they have to seal their lips sometimes for the sake of the people, not despite them.
Imagine if we were all smart voters – do you not think your MPs would once again feel free to say what they want to say. Go no further than this blog to see what happens when Garth’s words get negatively twisted. What are we to do? The anomaly of these few decades of political times is that we have to learn as voters to figure it out. It takes times. How to we deal with this devastating and newest form of negative politics – it’s been cutting us off from our honest politicians for decades now, and WJP I dare say it’s been about 45 years as you say, slowly getting worse. Is it not that “the people” have to catch up with these new political times?
Got Rope, I strongly feel that splitting up power has done little good. It sets up the separate areas as easy pickings. Go back to what I just said, and if we got a handle on reversing the naivety of voters, federal politicians could better serve with lots of heat under them, strong voices, watchdogs, guts and hopefully the best people making decisions. Spread out, it’s pretty clear that from healthcare to food to whatever, we are not safer when every province has their own little pea brain handling our important issues. They are not strong enough to fend off the temptations, and it has been proven that moving certain controls to provinces makes us less safe. And why should Canadians in one province have weaker safety systems to protect their people than in another? We all want a common good. It’s better handled at the source. Just watch the source more closely.
And please educate our future voters to be more informed voters – not to be fooled. Because right now, I see only Conservative lies being passed off as truth, and I see other parties pulling their hair out trying to get the voters to think for themselves and figure out what’s true. Blame the voters.
And Rope, Harper and Co. just ’say’ that provinces with more power are better – to get votes. It’s all to fool voters. It doesn’t stand up. De-centralizing makes us weaker – less able – to stand together and thrive. Isn’t it harder to keep an eye on ten times the politicians in each province, rather than fiercely watching a centralized office and biffing them out on bad behavior?
History repeatedly warns us – it’s all about divide and conquer. We need co-operation, not further separation. And – we need to be ever vigilant. The system will never run unsupervised. If you are the supervisor, quit complaining and get to work.
And I just have to say this: loose and lose are two different words. Why is it that so many people use loose in place of lose? And, an apostrophe does not a plural make. Whatever happened to the ability to spell and compose?
By forevergreen2000 on 07.22.08 1:57 pm
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Contrary to popular American theory, not everyone is born equal, nor are they educated equally. Some people have a talent for composing correct English prose and in some cases in spite of English not being their first language.
There are others who have various degrees of dyslexia and other impediments. I have known those who could barely converse never mind correspond, but could and did math in their heads precisely every time, no slide rule or calculator/computer necessary! If you have a mental gift via your DNA it should not be lorded over everyone! In some circles it will earn you some scars on and around your mouth, of which I have several!
Likewise about politics. Some people get the message and act accordingly to the wishes of the majority, and others try to force their brand of BS onto everyone else. Where the Conservatives fit into this you all know. They some how argue that we are not our brother’s keeper, and that taxes should not be sufficiently collected to assist those who need a hand in tough times. When they have a hand in creating those tough times is where we need to draw a line in the dirt regardless of latitude and longitude or whether it contains some arsfalt! (Misspelled on purpose!)
Actual if you had checked history you would have found that the Progressive Conservatives were Conservatives before they were Progressive Conservatives.
By Van on 07.22.08 2:20 pm
You are right on that one Van. Now, for a little reminder, the CPC Party we have today is in name only as they are actually the Reforms/Alliance Party. The Western Party that had some support in the West but next to none in the East so….. came up with this brain wave idea that if they could bring in a few(and there only is a few of the old Progressive Conservatives, they could fool Canadians into thinking that they were the Old Conservative Party. It worked on some because they got elected but I would guess that Canadians are beginning to see who they really are.
Am I not right Van? Were you one of those Reform/Alliance Party members? If not, you could have fooled me.
I would bet that the majority of the Con trolls on this blog are from the west & that is why we keep hearing that separation crap. Am I close Van? I recognize the old Alliance Reform Party crap lines. I too am from the West Van & I would fight separation tooth & nail if I had to. So would the majority of the western provinces.
Cheers
By Men With Hats on 07.22.08 3:18 pm
Re the use of the apostrophe
Have you read “Eats, Shoots and Leaves” by Lynn Truss? (Would that be Lynn Truss’s “Eats, Shoots and Leaves”?)
It was the most fun I’ve ever had reading a book about punctuation.
It should be a required text in schools. Nothing gets a message across like humour.
By got rope? on 07.22.08 2:42 pm
“…[I] was a polio child and was bullied out of school after grade 8 by English teachers because I couldn`t write at all and could barely print.”
Sorry about that experience. I can remember a few idiotic teachers like that. A favourite practice of the time was to try to make left-handed kids write with their right hands. A guy I went to school with was a victim of that. His writing was barely legible and the teachers were forever giving him grief about it. Somehow – I don’t know how – he was quite cheerful most of the time.
I hope there’s a circle of hell for bullying teachers.
I see Harry S. as representing the values of new Conservatives. Unlike traditional conservatives they place no value in culture or history. Because they are not students of history they are destined to repeat the mistakes of history.
Remember that Sir John A. Macdonald even described his Conservative party as progressive and at one time that party was know as the Liberal Conservative Party.
One could argue that the heritage of the new Conservative Party comes more from the Social Credit rather than the Conservative Party.
Van wrote:
“The Afghanistan war is in accordance with Art. 5 of the Nato Charter and is sanctioned by the UN. You can’t get much more legal than that.”
You forget that the NATO Charter cannot override the UN, whose rules clearly make the invasion illegal. Ergo, your argument is invalid. The UN Security Council only authorized the securing of a peace under the Afghan Interim Authority as an attempt to avoid outright slaughter arising from the breakdown of civil order following the original illegal invasion. It did not retroactively authorize the original invasion.
“the Conservatives – - argue that we are not our brother’s keeper, and that taxes should not be sufficiently collected to assist those who need a hand in tough times…
BY MAGNAMINITY? 07.22.08 3:50 PM
Well said, and this is why Canadians are pulling their hair out – Harper’s politics are “everyone for themselves!” but yet he caters to money grubbing corporations and the cheaters in the U.S. Harper is creating tough times for 99% of us.
I just figured out that Harry is Jack Layton
Even though I`ve extensively educated myself I`m still having a mental block with English but thankfully along came the PC and spell check, sorry I can`t fix the syntax errors.
Have you lead a sheltered life, or is that led a sheltered life?
By got rope? on 07.22.08 2:42 pm
You are an excellent writer . Your grammar is spot on .Therefore your syntax is fine. Correct answer is lead ,
LED is a light emitting diode . FYI .
By Men With Hats on 07.22.08 3:32 pm
Rope, feel proud that you have overcome a disability and that you have educated yourself. I must admit that years ago it irked me when I saw misspelled words, but once I retired, at 54, I noticed my spelling and ability to convey my thoughts deteriorated. Lack of practice partially. There are lots of people on this and other blogs that make lots of spelling and other errors. Sometimes its our fingers are typing faster than our thoughts. Even if a sentence isn’t composed correctly, I think most of us get the gist (or is that jist
of the message.
BTW Rope, my uncle got polio and had a limp. He drove a school bus in a small rural area in NS and was loved by all the kids and adults who knew him. My younger sis at the age of 18 mos, while on vacation with Mom, here in NS, came down with polio in both legs. My parents thought she’d never walk again. Three weeks later when Dad was called to pick her up at the Mtl. Childrens he thought the worst. She ran into his arms. The Drs. & nurses thought it was a miracle. So far all is well with her. Also, while I’m on this subject, thank goodness for Medicare. Being one of 6 children, I know what my parents went through with medical bills. Even though Dad had some med. insurance, it certainly didn’t pay for months of hospitalization & meds for 3 of my siblings. And if the cons have their way, we’ll end up with a for profit system like the US.
By forevergreen2000 on 07.22.08 1:57 pm
I just bought hooked on phoenix so hopefully my spelling and grammer gets more better when it arrives.
“And to think it`s our tax dollars paying to make the trash Global TV feeds Cdns.”?
BY GOT ROPE? 07.22.08 12:02 PM
Hi Got Rope, did I miss a sale? Global Television Network (more commonly called Global TV or just Global) is a privately owned television network, owned by Canwest Media Inc., a division of Canwest which is headquartered in Winnipeg.
I see Harry S. as representing the values of new Conservatives. Unlike traditional conservatives they place no value in culture or history. Because they are not students of history they are destined to repeat the mistakes of history.
Remember that Sir John A. Macdonald even described his Conservative party as progressive and at one time that party was know as the Liberal Conservative Party.
One could argue that the heritage of the new Conservative Party comes more from the Social Credit rather than the Conservative Party.
By C. B. Innes on 07.22.08 4:07 pm
CBI – except for their culture in Alberta – The Calgary Stampede being one example.
Every one in awhile we get someone on this site with nothing better to do than critique what others have written, how it is written, and whether it reaches their standard .
I don’t care if the entire post is written phonetically as long as I can understand the gist .
Like I said ” Yhis ain’t English class “
By Barb the proof-reader on 07.22.08 3:44 pm
Thanks for your response but I haven’t changed my mind one iota. Of course it is the voters, they keep voting for the same old, same old…quite frankly most of them have no time to be informed other than the clips they see on the 6 o’clock news, if they are lucky to see it once a week. It is not a priority as they are busy with their families and trying to make a living AND SURVIVE! If you are relying on the electorate to smarten up, I am afraid devastation of the economy would be a much better bet. When that happens, it will get their attention. The U.S. is in much greater trouble than we are hearing and it will impact here severely in the East and to a much smaller extent in the West. You can see from GM slated to build camaro cars in Ontario in 2009, the big 3 have little idea how to move. Our governments should be addressing green technology and manufacturing geared towards the future (i.e. electric cars)
There should be a real commitment to alternative energy and get us off oil dependence down the line. However, no point in focusing on that as few care until the bottom falls out for the same reasons I outlined above.
The only hope for change that I can see is economic devastation, other than that, the same two parties will continue to bash one another and accomplish very little regardless of who is elected. No one in interested any longer in governing, only in 24/7 campaigning to make sure the opposition party does not gain power. Under the present system, we could send all the MPs home, have Harper, Dion, Layton & Duceppe form a committee with absolute power to the PM….that’s the way I see it operating now.
By Men With Hats on 07.22.08 3:18 pm
Re the use of the apostrophe
Have you read “Eats, Shoots and Leaves” by Lynn Truss? (Would that be Lynn Truss’s “Eats, Shoots and Leaves”?)
It was the most fun I’ve ever had reading a book about punctuation.
It should be a required text in schools. Nothing gets a message across like humour.
Message should be directed to:
By forevergreen2000 on 07.22.08 1:57 pm
. . . succulent, sensuous and sultry thoughts revolving around the saccharin-coated, aspartame-laden hairless one . . .
Sorry, I was caught fantasizing about harebrained hairy coming back as a set of broken down traffic lights in his next life.
Normal service has now been resumed!
****************************************
WW from today’s KDC, which flow together
with a similar line from a song:
“Life is far too important a thing ever to talk about seriously.” — Oscar Wilde
– and –
“. . . life’s a laugh and death’s a joke too . . .” — Eric Idle singing “Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life” as he is in the process of being crucified, from Monty Python’s Life Of Brian.
Depending on how one sees it, life is a laugh and death is a real joke as well!
****************************************
Some may be interested, but a couple of the current investment recommendations I have seen yesterday and today are:
Merrill Lynch, Lehman Bros. and WAMU are tanking rather quickly, and the Fed. is printing more and more dollars, which reduces the buyng power already in circulation; accordingly, dump the dollar and move to Swiss francs (stable).
Other one is to get into natural resources and commodities, now they are in a downturn; long-term, Cdn. equity mutual funds look good, especially if dividends flow straight back in to buy more shares.
Anywhere with commodities and natural resourcs, like Oz and N.Z. are having a bumpy ride at present, but they will bounce back.
W. Buffett — “Buy and Hold — for the present time.”
****************************************
You can’t get much more legal than that.
Van, 2:05 pm
Point is Van, this is an ongoing “combat” mission, a war which will end sometime — no one knows when, but it will end — until there is a change in govts., so how long are you prepared to throw yours, and other Cdns. money into a bottomless pit?
A few countries — Spain and Australia are two — have finished their missions and chose to end their stay.
Why does Canada have to stay there, spending money when the current govt. could be assisting laid-off workers from central and western Canada? You know what the figures are, so let’s not bullshit one another.
If harpo wins — we stay and eventually go broke, which is what dubya is continually doing.
If Dion wins — change mission to a rebuild, repair and then get out of Af’stan for good.
Is it $100,000 a missile or thereabouts? Ask someone who is jobless due to cutbacks how the cost of one missile would be able to help them, rather than blow someone else to kingdom come.
This is our capital. Despite the Prime Minister’s neo-conservative agenda, this fact can’t be changed. You stand by your national symbols, and you make it clear that Canadians have an obligation to visit them as patriots. Period.
By Tired of it all on 07.22.08 10:32 am
….you should have mentioned to her how much of taxpayer dollars went towards the Calgary Stampede – hmmmm….
By AToryNoMore on 07.22.08 8:47 am
By wjp on 07.22.08 11:01 am
By AToryNoMore on 07.22.08 12:08 pm
By AToryNoMore on 07.22.08 12:12 pm
By Herb on 07.22.08 12:24 pm
By slg on 07.22.08 12:27 pm
By slg on 07.22.08 12:27 pm
By forevergreen2000 on 07.22.08 1:57 pm
By Men With Hats on 07.22.08 2:12 pm
By C. B. Innes on 07.22.08 4:07 pm
………………………………….
To all my forum supporters and tormentors:
Never ever forget that Canada is governed by a Conservative government, and, polled Canadians are satisfied with that government. After almost 3 years of opposition attacks and smearmongering that support is holding steady. Harper is hugely popular and Dion is in the dumps.
Meanwhile Liberal support is static at it’s core support level while being led by a failed leader with a failed carbon tax policy. The Liberal party is demoralized and divided regardless of the false facade of unity. Ask Garth..
Come this November, when Parliament is reconvened and a new Throne Speech and Budget are presented, the brave Liberals led by their brave leader Dion will undoubtedly finally vote no confidence in what will most likely be a hugely popular Budget with Canadians.
In the dead cold of a winter election campaign, Dion Liberals will try to convince Canadians to embrace a carbon tax on heating fuel to save the planet from overheating… good luck …LOL
i am sad to see that so many people are buying into this liberal-conservative dichotomy.
study recent history. there isn’t a dime’s worth of difference. they have fake issues.
was multi culturalism ever debated? what is the point of having a country if you let every tom, dick, and harry in? globalism it is called.
is the afghan war being debated? even though it is trashing canada’s reputation and a recruiting vehicle for terrorists?
who needs the ndp? we have plenty of communists already.
the joke is on you and the burden is on us and future generations.
Ford will not be having a 3rd shift at Oakville as planned…
In the dead cold of a winter election campaign, Dion Liberals will try to convince Canadians to embrace a carbon tax on heating fuel to save the planet from overheating… good luck …LOL
By HARRY S on 07.22.08 5:21 pm
I doubt Canadians will embrace a liar and a man who tried to orchestrate a bought vote….
Actually if you had checked history you would have found that the Progressive Conservatives were Conservatives before they were Progressive Conservatives.
By Van on 07.22.08 2:20 pm
Nonsense!!!!
And if you look before that you will find that Sir John A MacDonald, Abbott and Thompson were all Liberal-Conservatives Prime Ministers because Confederation would never have been if it were not for that.
There was only one Liberal Prime Minister Alexander MacKenzie in the first four Prime Ministers, as I stated, three of the first four Prime ministers were Liberal-Conservatives.
The fact is that George Etienne Cartier and MacDonald were co premiers of the Province of Canada prior to Confederation.
As a matter of fact, it was Cartier a Nation Builder who is the man that conceived the idea of the National Railway in 1872 and pushed the new act through parliament. Unfortunately he died in 1873. It was MacDonald then that carried on with the railway.
Had there been no Cartier, working with MacDonald, there would have been no confederation or Canada.
Cartier and MacDonald agreed to found the Liberal-Conservatives. There was just no other way. Cartier from lower Canada and MacDonald from Upper Canada.
The Liberal-Conservatives ran elections in some cases against both Liberals and Conservatives in some ridings.
Niether the Liberal or the Conservative Party can take credit for Confederation.
It was two great men with alot of help from people that decided they had to out of necessity be Liberal-Conservatives. There were alot of Liberal-Conservatives elected to parliament.
I could go on for hours on this one, but the country was not in good shape for thirty years in the beginning. There were lots of arguments and disagreements.
Just as then we need people who are liberals on one hand and conservative on the other. I can only speak for myself, because I dispise absolutes, thats why I can’t be a current kind of conservative.
Again speaking only for myself, I can understand why Garth has the political positional dilema that he may have.
I have never changed my political views, but I have watched as the big two parties have swayed from left to right over my head for decades. For now the Liberals are home for me.
George Etienne Cartier
Liberal-Conservative
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/confederation/023001-2313-e.html
Sir John A MacDonald
Liberal-Conservative
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/confederation/023001-2360-e.html
Sir John A. MacDonald
Liberal-Conservative Party
http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Parlinfo/Files/Parliamentarian.aspx?Item=59dd9d42-12e0-4d91-af20-4a5de0ea5e12&Language=E&MenuID=Lists.Members.aspx&MenuQuery=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.parl.gc.ca%2FParlinfo%2FLists%2FMembers.aspx%3FParliament%3D%26Riding%3D%26Name%3Dm%26Party%3D%26Province%3D%26Gender%3D%26New%3DFalse%26Current%3DFalse%26Picture%3DFalse
George Etienne Cartier
Liberal-Conservative.
http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Parlinfo/Files/Parliamentarian.aspx?Item=66c92977-b6c2-4840-809e-571849b07e01&Language=E&MenuID=Lists.Members.aspx&MenuQuery=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.parl.gc.ca%2FParlinfo%2FLists%2FMembers.aspx%3FParliament%3D%26Riding%3D%26Name%3Dc%26Party%3D%26Province%3D%26Gender%3D%26New%3DFalse%26Current%3DFalse%26Picture%3DFalse
Haven’t you resigned yet?
By Oscar on 07.22.08 10:06 am
Silly Oscar,
Why would Garth resign to the oooo’s and awwww’s of the extreme right?
Garth has a passion for Canada and Canadians that you could not understand.
Silly Conservative Fund Canada volunteer “paid” to post – go away!
I doubt Canadians will embrace a liar and a man who tried to orchestrate a bought vote….
By wjp on 07.22.08 5:35 pm
…………………………………
Try explaining that to Canadians in December and January, facing a Dion Carbon Tax if they vote Liberal …LOL
By Bonnie N BC on 07.22.08 6:03 pm
When I quit this job, any day now .. – Garth
…………………………..
Perhaps we shouldn’t take Garth’s own words too literally, because we don’t know what ‘job’ he is referring to now.
However it’s quite reasonable to assume that Garth may be contemplating a career change given the abject state of Liberal politics in Canada.
Garth is a dynamic character and he won’t let the grass grow under his feet before he takes off on another one of his entrepreneurial ventures … opportunity beckons in times of turmoil .. go for it Garth … udaman …!!!!
STEPHEN HARPER…
HE LIED TO INVESTORS ON INCOME TRUSTS.
(Hurting seniors near or on retirement as they don’t have the time frame to recuperate their losses)
ADMITTED ON TAPE he was aware of a financial offer to Cadman. (looks very much like vote buying)
ADMITTED THE CPC used the “IN & OUT SCHEME”
in their campaign financing. The investigator for Elections Canada denied claims by the CPC that other parties did it in 2004 & 2006.
His chief of staff, most likely under instructions from Harper, tried to INTERFERE in another country’s election process.
NAFTAGATE: (Probably doing a favour for his idol Bushie)
He tried to SMEAR Liberal MP Bains in the House of Commons.
(The character of Stevie exposed, like the smear against Martin as favouring child pornography and Liberals supporting the Taliban)
He ran on having an ACCOUNTABLE GOVERNMENT, then immediately appointed an unaccountable minister.
(Hiding Michael Fortier in the Senate, the same senate he opposed as unelected, then appointed Fortier)
HE SAID HIS GOVERNMENT WOULD BE DIFFERENT from the dishonest Liberal government, they are the same if not worse.
(too many scandals to get them on one post, Baird, Day etc. etc..)
He MUZZLES HIS MINISTERS and only allows them to talk in public after the content has been cleared with the PMO. Now he wants to muzzle all government offices by having them clear everything with the PMO before releasing information.
Then he has scraped the Co-ordination of Access to Information Requests to deny access to Canadians to millions of pages of once secret documents.
He BROKE HIS WORD on the Atlantic Accord.
He SENDS HIS SMALL MINDED FINANCE MINISTER out to pick a fight with Ontario, the same finance minister that left Ontario with a $5.6 billion deficit and claimed it was balanced.
(Now we will have another problem with small minded Jim, if the
federal finances slip into deficit, will we know?)
And of course, Mr. Flaherty has problems with his untendered contracts….
Meanwhile the CPC is hell bent on TAKING AWAY ONTARIO’S representation based on population.
(Obviously the CPC is not interested in Ontario voters)
Remember that poor MILITARY WIDOW in the Maritimes that Harper promised she would get her pension, did she ever get it?
The RCMP VISITING the CPC headquarters with a warrant? What illegal action has taken place?
COULD IT BE DEFRAUDING THE TAXPAYERS?
HIDES BEHIND PARLIAMENTARY PRIVLEDGE TO LIE ABOUT LIBERAL APPOINTMENTS!
Poor Stevie Harper…seems to be a DISHONEST & UNETHICAL leader!
This will be part of the record Mr. Harper will be running on in the next election…His environmental plan will lead to a Carbon tax by the U.S. and instead of the tax dollars staying in Canada under the dion plan…Harper will be sending them to the U.S Treasury, unless, of course, he adopts the Green Shift!!!
So Harry…that’s what you man will be running on…two chances…slim & none!!!
To all my forum supporters and tormentors:
By HARRY S on 07.22.08 5:21 pm
Harry – Check out the polls – the cons haven’t gained any support since they were elected. You’re living in a dream world. BTW, you running for the neocons Harry or perhaps you are actually affiliated in some capacity with them. Oh yeah, one of the Korn Kobs 37. Your intellectual level is about the same as them.
Ford will not be having a 3rd shift at Oakville as planned…
wjp, 5:34 pm
Hello WJP. Remember that Ford has a brand new, state-of-the-art factory ready to go in Brazil — labor is a helluva lot cheaper there.
Big Three may well be long gone come next summer.
****************************************
By AToryNoMore on 07.22.08 8:47 am
By wjp on 07.22.08 11:01 am
By AToryNoMore on 07.22.08 12:08 pm
By AToryNoMore on 07.22.08 12:12 pm
By Herb on 07.22.08 12:24 pm
By slg on 07.22.08 12:27 pm
By slg on 07.22.08 12:27 pm
By forevergreen2000 on 07.22.08 1:57 pm
By Men With Hats on 07.22.08 2:12 pm
By C. B. Innes on 07.22.08 4:07 pm
WHADDABOUTME?
To all my forum supporters and tormentors:
haplesshairlessandclueless, 5:21 pm
You really are a very silly billy hairy! Add me to your list, and don’t ferget, I am your equal, evil opposite!
I NEVER SLEEP!
The Heart of the Matter
Garth said something the other day that worried me. No, not about the real estate bubble already bursting or those autoworkers facing a bleak future and how awful that reality makes people crazy with worry.
But there was a thought out loud that made me wonder.
Will he run again?
He’s not my M.P. and one would ask why should I care? Well, he cares and that’s important to me. I have not always sided with his posts but for the many, many he does – the vast majority – I agree. It’s an important and noble fight worthy of this online dialogue.
So I ask all fellow bloggers, with the greatest sincerity could you call Garth’s office tomorrow and tell him no more musings – could you stay for the fight of our life in this country?
Stay, for the fight of our future generations.
Stay, because we love your cowboy boots, your Hog and your respect for this imperfect Confederation.
Stay, because if you go, who in the country will we talk to?
Garth, this is the heart of the matter.
Bloggers Please Call: 1-905-693-0166
P.S. Apologies to Esther for the phone traffic.
By wjp on 07.22.08 6:36 pm
I would love to see your Liberals trying to carry that confusing message to the voters in any next election … together with trying to sell a stupid punishing Carbon Tax … they will sound like whiners and bitchers who only deserve the exit.
Besides, the Liberals don’t have the leader to explain all that to Canadians, nor do they have the money to advertise it. Only you in your confused and deluded mind would have any hope about all that drivel nobody wants to hear anyway …LOL
By kpn on 07.22.08 6:46 pm
Harry – Check out the polls – the cons haven’t gained any support since they were elected. You’re living in a dream world.
…………………………………
You are entirely correct, but things will change during an election campaign. Either the Liberals or Conservatives will climb in the popularity polling once their messages get out and their leaders define those messages.
Talking about leaders … why is it that Harper consistently out-polls Dion by two to three to one in personal popularity and leadership qualities??
Currently the Liberal brand is equal to or slighly below that of the Conservative brand while there is a huge difference between the popularity of Harper and Dion. Harper soars while Dion scrapes.
It will be interesting to watch unpopular Dion trying to boost the popular Liberal brand … while popular Harper will only have to nudge the popularity of the Conservative party a slight amount to win a majority government.
What do you say to that, loser… ??!!!
Hairy S.
Far as I can tell you have one supporter.
By forevergreen2000 on 07.22.08 1:57 pm
And he is as retarded as you .
did I miss a sale? Global Television Network (more commonly called Global TV or just Global) is a privately owned television network
Barb on 07.22.08 5:02 pm
You are a funny gal as you didn`t miss the sale, you missed the fire sale. Do you not remember a 1993 Liberal election promise to end media corruption. Things have not changed the presstitutes still run on government advertising.
On your earlier post about corruption seeping up from the south causing our governments problems. That is really funny. Just in my lifetime I`ve seen our democratic rights and freedoms taken away from the electorate and turned over to a handful of lawyers. The next government eliminated the rule of law and broke the rules of confederation by imposing an illegal tax on the people. The next government (Liberal) cut many programs the previous Liberal government started that put this country in serious financial trouble. To top it off the completely eroded investor confidence in Canada and the latest government has failed big time restoring it. I guess you could blame some on international interference but what about our first PM who had to step down in his first term in the face of corruption charges. Your theory could only be funnier if you blamed Bush for Sir Johns downfall.
As for centralizing power in Ottawa this is not as you claim, a good idea. Confederation was set up to share power between the federal government and the provinces as the tax structure and other provincial and federal turf outlines. I think the fathers of confederation had it right to avoid the kind of country ruining dictatorship we`ve had for decades by power sharing. I support a confederated Canada but not the hog pog we have now where anything that gets done is another screwup.
btw I believe the definition of a dysfunctional government is `one screwup after another.
Now convince me that anything the feds have done in the last 40 years has not been either bad for the people, illegal or alternatively just another screwup. Remember economic conditions coming into play will force the changes required, is that the way you want things to go?
Sorry, I was caught fantasizing about harebrained hairy coming back as a set of broken down traffic lights in his next life.
Normal service has now been resumed!
ROTFLMAO
Another reason the Harper government may have a tough time getting any seats in Ontario & Quebec…it’s the economy!
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=239ca8cb-cfda-4f7a-9a8b-560a3426cf7d
A few bits and pieces from John Thomson on castanet.net today; it can be construed as good news or junk bonds:
****************************************
“. . . The year 2010 will see many non-residential projects in the province slowing down and that will be the first time since 2000. Canadian housing construction is at a gentle pace and remains healthy was the word from BMO Capital Markets.
“There was worry from both Finance Minister, Jim Flaherty and Bank of Canada Governor, Mark Carney about the number of forty-year mortgages that have been written in the last twelve months. Forty two per cent of all mortgages are aimed at the forty-year period according to some sources. The announcement from CMHC was well timed to ensure Canada’s housing industry remains strong and reduces the risk of a U.S. situation developing in Canada.
“Soaring energy costs are certainly a developing problem for disposable incomes. It isn’t just gasoline for our vehicles but natural gas and very shortly electricity as the hydro companies go for an increase in electricity prices. I look at the gasoline prices across the country and the difference in pricing stands at about six cents to ten cents from the East to the West. . . .
“However, Prime Minister Stephen Harper, also an economist(?!), doubts that will happen.
” ‘All the evidence indicates that in the long term there is going to be strong upward pressure on the price of oil,” Harper told reporters at the G8 Summit in Japan. ‘That doesn’t mean it can’t go down in the near future but over time there is going to be upward pressure because the pace of demand growth is outstripping supply, particularly low cost supply’.”
“But Harper played down the inflationary threat posed by high oil prices.
” ‘I’m not sure we’d say inflation is the major concern,” he said. “I think that danger exists elsewhere. In Canada it is contained’.”
Further,
“With the North American economy stagnating, Canadian companies, long dependent on exports to the United States, must seek growth opportunities in other international markets.
“The Thompson-Okanagan economy continues to be robust, attracting record numbers of new residents, according to the BC Check-Up, by the Chartered Accountants of British Columbia.
According to the CA report, population growth in the region was the highest in the province in 2007 at 2.5 per cent. Over the last five years, the region saw an influx of 35,000 new residents, an increase of 7.1 per cent and the second highest growth rate in B.C.
“The strong population growth reflected the region’s strong job market. Last year, the region created 3,000 new jobs, and 48,600 jobs have been created over the last five years. The 23.4 per cent increase in jobs over the last five years is the best job creation performance of any region in the province.
“Looking ahead, there are positive signs about the investment climate in the region. According to the BC Major Projects Inventory, there was a total of $24.5 billion worth of capital projects either proposed or under construction as of December 2007. The majority of this investment was residential / commercial development, mostly oriented to either the retirement or tourism markets.”
. . . and . . .
“Last week seven thousand people in Canada turned 60 years old. 1000 people a day. That will happened every day for the next eight years.”
****************************************
Obviously harpo wants oil to go up. Maybe he sold out to Big Oil, and along with dubya, gets a nice kickback? Time will tell.
How long is it before boomers start to wipe out the CPP, OAS and GIS? Aligned with rising energy, fuel and food costs, folk who have lost their jobs and live in McMansions on which they can’t meet their mortgage payments (and other debts), is this akin to good old-fashioned Conservative strategy?
I think not, and I am NOT an economist! I’ll vote for a centre-based Dion + Lib. govt., and take my chances on them!
Garth, is it true that if Dion doesn’t win a majority you will be running for the Leadership of the Ontario Tories?
If so, I want to volunteer!
McGuinty needs to GO!
Another reason the Harper government may have a tough time getting any seats in Ontario & Quebec…it’s the economy!
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=239ca8cb-cfda-4f7a-9a8b-560a3426cf7d
By wjp on 07.22.08 7:24 pm
As I have said many times on this blog, Don’t lose sight of the real issue, it’s always about the economy.
Hold the Conservatives accountable!
did I miss a sale? Global Television Network (more commonly called Global TV or just Global) is a privately owned television network
Barb on 07.22.08 5:02 pm
I case anyone missed this post so crucial to the upcoming generation I`ll repost it as some seem are more interested in how corrupt the media is rather than the crisis facing our youth.
California just released stats that say their teens are engaging in less sex. Leno remarked it`s such a big decline the teachers are starting to have sex with each other.
Why is that? Well I`m glad you asked. Vancouver has the highest sole custody rate with the highest number of parent denied children in not only Canada but most of the word. The results are in and it`s really a shame no one paid attention when we started warning about the 6 years ago.
This is much more than your normal government screwup, this has already affected all aspects of Cdn life and the worst is yet to come. The next 5 will make the last 5 look like a walk in the park.
Tweak that Brain
———–
The Ugly Spin
Global TV had a segment on children as young as engaging in sex on dates. Shocking enough to get my attention. This was combined with dating violence which made the impact even greater. Most of the visuals we opinions by adults to the faces of many young girls and their stories who are victims of dating violence.
Because only the girls were exhibited as dating violence victims it could very well be interpreted as boys are bad girls are victims. As this was intermixed with 11 year olds dating the inferences could well be carried over as the boys are the problem.
The problem is almost entirely within the two million single parent children that hold the highest number of parent denied children in Cdn history. They lack parenting which is the primary cause of 11 year olds dating and increases in dating violence. There certainly are people that need to take responsibility for a generation that will be outnumbered by seniors having no moral code or direction and it sure as hell isn`t the boys or the missing fathers.
The crime statistics and increases in mischief hold the story on the results of the unconstitutional use of sole custody. These links, some of many, on the truth on dating violence.
=====================
Prevalence of Violence Against
Dating Partners by Male and Female
University Students Worldwide
MURRAY A. STRAUS
University of New Hainpshire
Perhaps tile most important similarity is the high rate of assault perpetrated by both male and female
students in all the countries
========================
“Domestic violence goes both ways, study finds
12:00AM Saturday August 19, 2006
Where only one partner in a relationship is violent, it is more likely to be the woman, University of Otago researchers have found.
=============
And to think it`s our tax dollars paying to make the trash Global TV feeds Cdns.
If your not standing up for our children your not any better than the abusers that are using them, stop the lies.
Besides, the Liberals don’t have the leader to explain all that to Canadians, nor do they have the money to advertise it. Only you in your confused and deluded mind would have any hope about all that drivel nobody wants to hear anyway …LOL
By HARRY S on 07.22.08 7:11 pm
So you are back to the personal insults again…well, we shall see…the best Harper can hope for is a minority. The Ontario & Quebec vote will have completely disappeared for the CPC by December. Unless he takes the 4.3 billion he got from the wireless companies and tries to buy votes in Quebec again although it didn’t work the last time and it won’t again.
Now Altantic Canada could be anything but CPC with his broken promises…
So I guess he will have to settle with the vote from the West and most of that from Alberta…doesn’t add up to a whole bunch of seats.
It won’t take much to explain that Harper is a liar and tried to defraud the Canadian taxpayer…
Then there is the U.S. Carbon tax on imported oil from the Tar Sands, if they will take it at all, I understand California will not.
So there is plenty of ammunition and plenty of party leaders to destroy Harper although he has already done that to himself.
As for you personal insults, just shows how small minded you are and you must stay in Garth’s good books or you will be playing with yourself for a few more days….take your meds tonight Harry and wake up with a clear mind in the AM…opps sorry, it is always clear, it is obvious there is nothing up there…
I would love to see your Liberals trying to carry that confusing message to the voters in any next election … together with trying to sell a stupid punishing Carbon Tax … they will sound like whiners and bitchers who only deserve the exit.
Besides, the Liberals don’t have the leader to explain all that to Canadians, nor do they have the money to advertise it. Only you in your confused and deluded mind would have any hope about all that drivel nobody wants to hear anyway …LOL
By HARRY S on 07.22.08 7:11 pm
Just one final comment Harry, they are not my Liberals, I appreciate you only read you own posts however I am an independent, however, I am very much ABC…
while popular Harper will only have to nudge the popularity of the Conservative party a slight amount to win a majority government.
What do you say to that, loser… ??!!!
By HARRY S on 07.22.08 7:19 pm
Harry, You mistakenly apply broad brush support to all provinces within regions. Issues, policies, positions are all different everywhere. One idea here does not necessarily sell elsewhere.
Quebec and Ontario and in a larger way Atlantic Canada are going to make the next government. The other provinces vote the way they vote. That should mean a liberal win.
I apologize. I forgot to insert the age again. The age of our children dating and engaging in sexual activity is down to11 years of age.
I`m afraid I need a holiday. After spending 10 very intense years trying to reform childrens rights and still having this happen is very upsetting.
I really have to consider why I just don`t walk away and let the abusers swill in their triumph of success.
no justice, no investment
Garth, is it true that if Dion doesn’t win a majority you will be running for the Leadership of the Ontario Tories?
If so, I want to volunteer!
McGuinty needs to GO!
By An old friend on 07.22.08 8:17 pm
No but sources say he is well positioned to be president of the Mickey Mouse Club .
Stupid !
no justice, no investment
By got rope? on 07.22.08 8:46 pm
No hope .
This was on WRH.com around 5:30. Note Chrysler hasn’t been mentioned.
http://tinyurl.com/6xq8ke
******************************************
Mebbe rhetoric, mebbe warming up to a new cold war.
http://tinyurl.com/5d2qyr
****************************************
No link — head and para. tell it straight up.
“Collapsing Fiat Currency In Need of a Golden Parachute with a Silver Lining
“Money served throughout history as a medium of exchange and as a storehouse of value. But when gold and silver coins were replaced by paper currencies, money no longer was the same. Paper money, no longer having intrinsic value, now functions only as a medium of exchange, a function that degrades over time.”
“The only hope for change that I can see is economic devastation”
BY WJP 07.22.08 5:14 PM
WJP, we’ll certainly see that. Should be interesting times. You mentioned: ["No one in interested any longer in governing, only in 24/7 campaigning to make sure the opposition party does not gain power" ~WJP]. I so strongly blame the Cons for bringing that to NEW ridiculous heights. I admire how Dion carries on with dignity and won’t play Harper’s games.
And I love your Harper Lies posts. Keep it up.
By AToryNoMore on 07.22.08 8:47 am
By AToryNoMore on 07.22.08 12:08 pm
By AToryNoMore on 07.22.08 12:12 pm
By HARRY S on 07.22.08 5:21 pm
The dinosaur lectures the phoenix?
Where is the justification?
You may be young but you sound like a poor, wizened soul!
You have no appreciation for the strivings of many earnest and dedicated people, over many years, who have contributed to the great country we have today; no appreciation for the craftspeople who exhausted themselves to give all the talents they had to design, build and craft these beautiful, inspiring structures.
When my children were small, we took a camping trip from Algonquin Park across to Ottawa because my small son wanted to see the parliament buildings and a real Mountie. Well, we have the pictures which have helped imprint these memories in in our minds. These grand buildings, with their tall spires and appearance of solidity and permanence, gave us a feeling that the seat of the Government of Canada and the government itself, would last forever. Build a new one?
How uninspiring! This is like our house. We should maintain it. There are so many memories here.. Why move?
would last forever. Build a new one?
How uninspiring! This is like our house. We should maintain it. There are so many memories here.. Why move?
By Pat. G. on 07.22.08 10:41 pm
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
This 68 year old, obese revisionist sees that instead of living in the past we need to move on and upward. Save the old relics on the Autawawa Riviera as museums if you must. You also should tour the Upper Canada Parliament Bldgs. in Coburg, Ont! You might get a glimmer of where I am coming from. The Sun does not shine out of the Rideau/Ottawa junction and it is about turning a new leaf, making a fresh start, and getting right for a change! While you are in the travel mode there are a few more places you need to not just visit, but work your butt off in to get a real picture of what Canada is and is not. There is much of Canada that we all need to see and partake of. It is not at the fancy dining tables, either. At my age and back ground I had a head start, but am now on the shelf unfortunately! Can you stook grain, hitch up a four horse team of Clydesdales, shovel loose coal, survive underground shift after shift, sweat your gonads off in a steel mill, soak up a dose of radiation in a nuclear plant to get the xray film needed to prove that it is still safe, climb structural steel work in 20 below with a 15 MPH wind (max allowed). Canada is a lot of things that most of you do not know or think about. When smart mouthed, over paid, law school rejects in a bldg called Parliament, glibly white wash the scandles that they have had, I have known many fellow Canadians who would like to straighten their act up real quick and would not be pretty! It is called Street Justice! I will give you inspiration. I know an 85 year old who is denied his Old Age Pension by (un)civil servants because they think that they can get away with it. The man was born in Canada, served in the forges and foundries during WW2 because he was not old enough to join up. He worked later on after he became a tradesman, across the Detroit River for 20 years, but always maintained his citizenship. After returning to Canada and working for another decade they allow him his Canada Pension but not the Old Age Pension. I have words to describe these people but Garth runs a clean and tight ship so use your limited imagination of what those words are in a variety of languages! Bottom line we need to start over and do it right this time.
Tear it down and replace it with a building loaded with solar heating panels and even a wind turbine on top … and designed to be greener, cleaner and saner.
By HARRY S on 07.22.08 10:17 am
Harry,
I rarely speak out against another blogger but couldn’t resist this time. And frankly, I cannot believe anyone could actually subscribe to such an asinine opinion as this one.
I’ve traveled extensively in Europe and toured some of the magnificent buildings there, many dating back to the Roman Empire. Historical sites are regarded as a public trust backed by government commitments to ensure significant monuments are preserved. For example, I visited several cathedrals in Germany that were being repaired and restored and although significant sections were shrouded in tarps and scaffolding (making photography a challenge) and complete restoration would take many years, the government’s commitment to doing it properly is admirable in my opinion. In fact, they will only use original materials AND TOOLS so as to remain true to the original architecture and building process.
We’re such a young country by comparison and a place where the majority of our historical sites are not even 200 years old. This isn’t even middle-aged by European standards.
The Canadian Parliament buildings are worth saving, at any cost, despite what morons like you say. Go visit countries like Germany, France, Italy, and Austria (to name a few). It might change your opinion. Then again, based on some of your “contributions” on this blog, I’m not holding my breath. Dickhead.
It will be interesting to watch unpopular Dion trying to boost the popular Liberal brand … while popular Harper will only have to nudge the popularity of the Conservative party a slight amount to win a majority government.
What do you say to that, loser… ??!!!
By HARRY S on 07.22.08 7:19 pm
Aren’t you getting just a little tired of being put down Harry? It will take a lot more than a nudge for the Cons to win a majority. Lie all you like if that’s what it takes to make you feel better but sooner or later you have to accept the facts that lies have a way of catching up with you whether you like it or not.
It’s plain to see who the loser really is.
Cheers
I really have to consider why I just don`t walk away and let the abusers swill in their triumph of success.
no justice, no investment
By got rope? on 07.22.08 8:46 pm
No Robert, you must persevere…it is too important a mission, aside from that you made a promise and you are a man who keeps those!!! I will support your efforts where I can.
Dear Bloggers,
There is a certain individual on this site calls him self “Harry S”. After seeing his most recent post, I have come to the conclusion that this snapperhead wants nothing more than to hinder and degrade the spirit of free speech and honest debate.
This individual is single minded in his views and is not here to debate but rather to poison Garth’s Blog. Most decent people on this blog know that he is a subservient concubine/bitch to the current fat and dorky Conservative Prime Minster Stephane Joseph Harper.
Being the good Canadians that we are and in the spirit of free expression:
1) We tolerate him knowing that he does not add anything constructive to the debate or to this site.
2) Garth allows him to remain.
So what I suggest is this, A) We as a group ignore him. B) We politely ask him to change his behaviour or C) We ask garth to simply remove his blogging privledges from this site.
Those who agree with option “C” simply type “I” and post your vote. If enough support is garnered, I hope that Garth will feel maditated enough to agree and perhaps even comply. Nonetheless it would be interesting to see what happens next.
Daryn
Daryn
you made a promise
I will support your efforts where I can.
By wjp on 07.23.08 6:01 am
Thanks P
I see you`ve done a little reading and I`m glad you have shown there are some that understand the gravity of the situation. It`s possible I`ve fulfilled that promise as best I could without any measure of success unless you count the growing numbers of none of the above which wasn`t my goal. besides I`m really tired of getting beaten up over pointing out that decades of government have not been for the people but against the people.
If Cdns want Canada to continue to be a global centre piece for government corruption who am I to say majority doesn`t rule, am I not the one pointing out the lack of democracy practiced by government..
ACADEMIC MY DEAR WATSON 07.23.08 12:21AM
Academic,
Call Esther with the name of the 85 year old and let us know on any new post when you’ve done that. I would take up that cause and personally hound Ottawa until the OAS paid. I don’t read here every day but I’ll try to keep an eye out. I assume Garth knows everyone’s email addresses so maybe Esther could then email. Maybe Harry can take a break from typing and ask his boss in the next office to take care of it.
“I”.
BY PAT. G. 07.22.08 10:41 PM
Beautiful post Pat. My Mom grew up in Ottawa, so as young children we often travelled to Ottawa, stayed at nearby cottages, Algonquin and visited Parliament Buildings. They are a treasure and we should be taking care of them.
It seems to me we neglect those buildings, much like we lazily neglect to pay attention to who we elect as politicians.
Save our Parliament buildings. Rebuild our politics with honest politicians.
Got Rope and WJP,
I do agree with all your points but one. The corruption in government, and I’m assuming you’re on this same track, is worldwide. I can’t imagine a “system” that would fix it, so central vs provincial is a mute point. Neither works when the politicians themselves are susceptible to the ingrained corruption. The problem is that we have huge multi-nationals with what seems more power than any government. They write the politices, they are being handed the powers over the little businesses, they are the ones in control. Not the people. They start at municipal level, they have control at provincial level, so handing over to provincial control is an even bigger problem, and not a solution. And as you can plainly see, it has worked to get them many changes they need at federal level, to facilitate their multi-national corporations, including handing more power back to the provinces where issues can be more easily manipulated for those who have the real power and money.. the systemic corporate wealth cronyism. So now with this set of Cons, they’ve all become quite arrogant because they completely believe in this, yet they haven’t quite caught on to the downfall, that corporations can’t be trusted. It’s that simple. Corporations are corporations, they have no interested in us little people.. us 99% of the population who are getting no where and wonder why. Well this is why.
Whatever huge multi-national corporations want is what they get. It’s simple. And it’s what we get. And just like corporate scandals… so goes our government cronies and friends.
Got Rope, I just think it’s our fault for letting all the corruption seep in. Okay, so we’ve been caught asleep at the wheel and it’s time we caught up. You and WJP are both quite correct, and it’s been coming for a long time. But I don’t see enacting any solutions from our seats. We need some good people in those seats in Ottawa. That’s our job. Elect good people, but first expose the truth. Loudly shame our politicians, and get honest, smart people elected. In my riding we have a wonderful gal who ran for the liberals, but she has no chance against the corrupt conservatives. How does any other system fix that? She’s even dubious now of the good in going door to door, so how are the people going to know her? We need to help her, and other good politicians, that’s how.
So GOT ROPE? in answer to your many posts, none of the above is what has been going on for quite some time. That has to change. We the people, have to get off our lazy dumb asses and help our local politician running for office next time, and we have to encourage more qualified people to run for office, politicians who will speak out in dissent. Corporations have been putting their own pets in political office for a long time. They groom them, they finance them, and we don’t even notice, because we’re not paying attention and they seem like such nice people – I say that not for you WJP or Rope, because you know, but everybody does have to figure that out.
No one is going to inform the voter better than themselves, and they won’t know what the problem is unless we the people, all start screaming about it. Connect the dots. We have few options, but we do have some power.
BY WJP ON 07.22.08 5:14 PM
I just wanted to add WJP, change does happen. Probably, as you say there will be complete economic collapse. That sure will get people’s attention. Then there’ll be lots of lies for the people to soak up, about who and what caused it.
So it’s NOW that we have to talk about it and get the truth out, because it’s easier to inform people now, then to wait until they’re down and depressed, and trying to inform themselves via MSM, because who knows what corporate mogul group will control the waves.
Irene,
I agree with you totally.
It’s easy to look up, too, that Harper decided before the merger of the ultra-right wing parties, and then the hijacking of the tories, that it could be done in a businesslike fashion. You are correct, and all westerners know that the ultra right Reform Party and the Ultra right Alliance Party, took over the PCs and actually illegally renamed them.
But before that, oh what fun it was when the merger was named the Conservative Reform Alliance Party before they realized what their initials were!!
Barb
While your plan in theory is good in reality it`s the same old. To complicate matters 20% of the population think the conservatives are corrupt, 20% think the liberals are corrupt and 40% (NAP) think the`re all corrupt.
I find it odd you would dismiss a new system that has been successfully proven in one country as unworkable.
Are you one of those nostalgic romantics that want to retain the status quo because it makes you warm all over or because the future scares you?
It certainly isn`t because we have a government that has every really worked. It has been a failure ever since MacDonald allowed corruption to be part of Cdn governance.
Personally I`d rather belong to the majority of none of the above and make the change now rather than go down with the ship, but you can vote any way you like, it`s still a partially free country.
R
BY GOT ROPE? 07.23.08 4:20 PM
Well Rope, first of all Rope, nothing scares me. Well, except robbers at the back door, but that’s another story.
You have your own non-partisan yet partisan twist, whether you believe it or not.
You have left “the system” behind, with a clean sweep, alleging that it’s the system that failed.
It did.
And it didn’t..
It’s human nature, that’s all. We have a natural system, and all political systems are really just slight variations of us. [Remember this, whatever is big - is small, and conversely, whatever is small - is big. Micro. Macro. Big. Small. Everything works on the same model.]
Even our body systems [the small comparison] are like our societal systems [the larger version of us]. Our societal systems work much the same as our family and groups. We’re not very complicated. We just think we are. And we’re not even very intelligent. We just claim humans are intelligent. We are wrong about that.
Basically there is, and you’ll admit, a response in animals to let the dominant lead.
The “Dominant” might be good or bad. Sometimes we can’t tell the difference, but we should try, for safety’s sake, because as the leader goes, so goes we.
Unfortunately, once any one of us gets a bit of privilege, money, power or ease, we want more.
Parallel to that.. the more money you get, the easier it is to work it into making more money. And so we have the rich not only getting richer, but they can’t help themselves but to want even more. All things being finite, someone has to pay. And since we all strive to feel safe, and there’s no such thing as safe, the rich keep looking for more and more money and power, to satisfy an unattainable need for safety. That’s really what greed is. An out of whack need for safety, through order.
Simple so far? Just add one more thing.. we get to the point where we’ll do anything to keep what we have, and get more.
Well that’s corruption. And no matter what you set up.. humans are susceptible. So go ahead and hope for another system. It’s not the system, it’s the people, and our human nature, our arrogance, our greed and our naivety. That’s the problem. So deal with it.
So what’s that alternative system you have? It’s proven over hundreds and thousands of years, right?