Between photo ops in the NWT, Stephen Harper mused that the next government would likely be another minority. This is more evidence he seems poised to dissolve Parliament next week and plunge us into an election.
When it is over on the night of October 14th, if the polls foretell the future, then the guy may well be right. So, if the best he can do is achieve what he’s got now, then why have an election?
Good question. Two answers.
The first answer comes from Harper mentor, professor, Tory warrior, Reform veteran and author Tom Flanagan. I read his book, “Harper’s Team” when it came out months ago, and was struck in it by the creed the two of them share not to just defeat opponents, but to crush them. Flanagan cites ancient wars in Carthage in which the only victory considered fitting was annihilation – right down to plowing salt into the fields, so crops would never again grow to feed the city.
This, Tommy says, is what Steve wants to do to the Libs. So, gaining a majority government is less important than just pulverizing Stephane Dion and setting the Liberals up for even worse pummeling some time after that. Eventually, as Mr. Harper dreams when he is in his happy place, the world will have no more Liberals, progressives or moderates. Just guys like him. Joy.
The second answer for why he wants an election he can’t dominate, is because the prime minister knows if he doesn’t get us voting now, he’s not going to get a minority. Not even close.
We’ve detailed many of his problems here before, and when it comes to the economy, the walls are closing in on this government. The real estate market is deteriorating, jobs are being exported, inflation and interest rates are on the rise, corporate profits are falling, government spending’s out of control, energy costs are painful, family financial stress is rising and the middle class is being squeezed as never before in two decades. This is all getting worse, fast. When the 0/40 mortgage mess alone hits the fan October 15th, he wants the voting over.
But there’s more, like Julie’s tell-all book about Max, due for publication on October 14th. There’s the in-and-out electoral cheating scandal which has the potential to seriously tarnish the Conservative brand. And, as I wrote in the last post, the ascendancy of Stephane Dion, as evidenced by my Town Hall last week and the new-found respect he’s clearly getting from the media.
Flanagan’s wrong. This isn’t about history. It’s about the future.
Harper fears it. Dion gives it hope.
243 comments ↓
Meh. Painless solutions don’t exist. It’s a test between Orange and Red for me, I don’t even consider the Cons. I think you all might want to change your strategy.
“The only objective for the Liberals is to “go back to power” so that a Liberal government is in place by 2012. Why 2012? That’s when the first phase of the Kyoto Treaty must be achieved; Canada must have reduced it’s current 30% GHG excess to meet our Kyoto “obligations” (as stated on page 16 of the Green Shift).
However Dion has already admitted on page 16 of the Green Shift that Canada will not achieve it’s 2012 Kyoto “obligations”, so what happens next? Well, if a Conservative government is in charge Canada will reject it’s “obligations” created by past Liberals governments when they didn’t make Kyoto a “priority” and allowed the GHGs to skyrocket. If we have a Liberal government, Dion has stated we must meet our “obligations” to Kyoto, and since we can’t physically reduce our GHGs to meet the Kyoto targets we must mitigate the excess GHGs with buying billions of Kyoto Carbon Credits from China et al. The Green Shift Carbon Tax will have raised $15 Billion by 2012, and a Liberal government will find the money to buy Carbon Credits from China to meet their “obligations” to the Chinese.”
WTG Garth,
for the first official Liberal reference to Green (Re:Green fish) in the last 2 days.
Hi Garth.
Below is the most important problem facing Canadians. Will it be debated in the up-coming election?
War With Russia Is
On The Agenda
By Paul Craig Roberts
8-26-8
Thinking about the massive failure of the US media to report truthfully is sobering. The United States, bristling with nuclear weapons and pursuing a policy of world hegemony, has a population that is kept in the dark–indeed brainwashed–about the most important and most dangerous events of our time. The power of the Israel Lobby is an important component of keeping Americans in the dark. Recently I watched a documentary that demonstrates the control that the Israel Lobby exercises over Americans’ view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The documentary is available here: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14055.htm
Read more here.
http://www.rense.com/general83/wifde.htm
Dr. Roberts knows his stuff: old style conservative, Reagan Cabinet, Wall Street Journal Asst. Editor.
Our Prime Minister supports war criminals in this attack. When the Liberal Party exposes this to Canadians voters will choose peace.
Then you may be Minister of Finance.
Garth wrote:
“When the 0/40 mortgage mess alone hits the fan October 15th, he wants the voting over.”
Why will it hit the fan Oct 15th?
My understanding is that by and large the major banks in Canada have already withdrawn the 0/40 mortgage. So the effect should already be felt.
I’m listening to Layton in Denver now. The squeeze is unbearable for US. Make sure you check out. Committment, oy vey, I am one of Layton’s 2.5 million people who voted for him in the last election and every one since I was 18.
Let’s have a dif vision please. I may be over the fence, but I haven’t lost my socialist values. The next month is gonna be intereting.
More, wuth audio here.
http://www.radiodujour.com/people/roberts_paul_craig/
Is that Baloney made for the Conservatives
in Maple Leaf Food’s Toronto plant, you know the one with plant code #97B!
So this is the logo for hysteria, I mean Listeria?
Use it to make your Ritz sandwiches! Incubates in ninety days or less if not refrigerated well!
Harpo is busy up North acting like a two-fisted tough guy for the world stage .
“This land is our land ” . Problem is we need a whole flotilla of ships to defend our sovereignty in that part of the world.
And the hero cancelled all our ice-breakers and naval ships as well as the deep sea port .
Sure the world is going to be impressed as we row up along side their ships in our dories and yell at them .
Garth.
I presume that if SubPrime Minister Harper requests the Governor General dissolve Parliament, she is constitutionally obligated to do so unless there is some extraordinary argument against it. It might be worthwhile to get an opinion from a constitutional lawyer on whether a joint submission by Dion, Layton, and Duceppe along the following lines would be something the GG should consider.
There is a serious allegation being legally pursued that members of the Conservative Party engaged in activities during the last general election that did not comply with the Elections Act.
The current penalty for violation of the elections act is a fine, which is manifestly insufficient punishment for the offence since it permits the perpetrator of such violation to retain the benefit of their non-compliance if they are elected.
Therefore, as an emergency measure, Her Excellency is requested to suspend the dissolution until Parliament has the time to meet and consider a single piece of legislation, that being a bill that would provide that any member of parliament convicted of a breach of the elections act would have the results of their riding restated with that member deemed to have received zero votes.
This would have the effect of any member convicted losing their seat, and it would instead go to the candidate with the next highest vote total. A penalty much more commensurate with the offence. If it isn’t done, I don’t think there’s much stopping the Tories from using the financial advantage to cheat in the election SPMH is threatening to impose.
Regards
EhBC
Guys like Flanagan comment from their own warped perspectives on politics.
And what is that based on? The Reformatives who have been around for what…10 years on the political landscape, versus the 100 years of the Liberals and non-CPC conservatives.
The kind of stuff he espouses works great on collection of political imbeciles, but not the majority of Canadians who understand that there is a purpose for government that goes beyond “winning the crown”.
Austin
Austin
Molly, the orange leader learned his politics on his father’s knee, a Mulroney cabinet minister. I was a life long supporter of the NDP until after Broadbent left as leader, they are no longer the party of the working man, just the special interests, and have done more to prop up the present government than the Liberals have ever done.
he plans to drain your warchest.
plain and simple
Garth,
You are right Garth and all of the facts support your conclusion. Harper wants to destroy the Liberal Party. He has sued them, tainted their leader’s image, sent our operatives to infiltrate blogs and the list goes on and on.
The Liberals need to keep ahead of Harper:
Did Mr. Dion call the governor general yet and instruct her that it is no longer the prerogative of the Prime Minister to call elections? If he should.
Daryn
Flanigan – an American that came here in 1968 (draft dodger?) and was Harper’s advisor and mentor….he’s brought his right wing ideals with him to Canada and suckered Harper in.
A man so filled with hatred (Harper) should be removed because of mental instability. He’s not governing ALL Canadians – he’s governing by hatred…this is a dangerous sign.
Well I guess we can’t accuse Harper of insanity. .. ” doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result”
If another minority governmernt is as high as he is prepared to set the bar for himself, how can the Conservative Party continue to support him?
My expectation as one of those Canadians footing the bill for this ego exercise is that the leader of the next
minority government will include compromise and consensus as part of his leadership style. Is this not the message we send to Ottawa when we elect a minority? Also..not to belabour the point but most lenders discontinued 40 yr ams and 0 down shortly after the announcement by Flaherty. The effect of these changes should be quite noticeable smack in the middle of the campaign.
“…..the ascendancy of Stephane Dion,…”
Really? Right now he’s ascended to a “best leader” rating of 15% amongst Canadians. (Less amongst Quebecers.)Harper is enjoying about 35%. Bring it on, baby. Bring it on!!!
I’m curious as to why Flanagan writes this stuff. Does this enthuse Harper supporters? He wrote about the Cadman affair (well before the scandal broke) and openly admitted they were desperate about Cadman’s vote and did questionable things. Is he just a motor mouth or is there some point to him revealing Harper’s strategy?
Anyway, Harper has been transparent in his disdain for anything Liberal (as has Layton) and Flanagan just reinforces the need to get rid of this government. We need a leader, like Dion, who can change the tone of this ulta-partisan parliament.
I think Harper has absolutely no choice but to go at this time, I think the details of the “In & Out” scheme cannot see the light of day. Thus far, he has been successful in covering up by having folks ignore the committee summons but he cannot let parliament reconvene. That would be his death knell, as I see it, he has nothing to lose by going now!
A good example would be Tony Clement. He ran, along with Harper and Belinda Stronach, for the leadership of the Conservative Party and got himself seriously into debt in the process. After she became a Liberal and they were thus political opponents, Stronach gave a personal cheque for $100,000 to Clement to help him out. Have you ever read Clement defending Stronach when his Conservative buddies called her a dog? Would Stephen Harper give $100 to Dion?
Harper seeks and engineers crises and destruction. His goal is to reshape this country to fit his mindset. He wants Canada to become like Belgium, though he doesn’t have the ethics or intelligence of Leterne and, from what I see of the Harper machinations these days, would not be able to cope in a real crisis, even one of his own making.
And of course, Flanagan is indicating that Stephen Harper is lying again. There is no dysfunction in Parliament. It’s all about Steve and his self-importance. Steve has no respect for parliament, for democracy, for Canadians or for his political opponents.
Speaking of high energy costs I would like to know why there is still a Federal Excise tax of 10 cents a litre on gasoline. Since this tax was brought in to get rid of the deficit it should be cancelled since we have not had one in over 10 years.
Instead of blaming big oil how about the government looking in its own backyard for a starter. Also eliminating the GST. Taxing a tax is beyond the pale.
But as we all know this is the governments ‘crack’ and they can’t function without it.
Garth,
No matter how one ‘cuts the cake’, the Conservatives are not getting any ‘bang for their buck’.
They have spent loads trying to create an image, but it’s not working with the electorate.
So, their messaging has to be off, or people are not listening to them or possibly the voters have tuned them out.
The reality is, they are stuck, somewhere, in a political limbo.
In my sincere and honest opinion I have come to believe that PMSH is a psychopath, at the very least a sociopath.
In watching his antics over the past couple of years, he has shown himself to be driven by all consuming, intense personal desire while simultaneously demonstrating absolutely no empathy for others and no consideration for the impact of his actions upon others.
We the people exist only as toys to be manipulated. Manipulating people through lies is a big part of the psychopathic illness. The liar feels empowered by his ability to lie convincingly, gaining a sense of magnificent yet misplaced superiority over those to whom he has lied (that would be us).
The actions that I have witnessed seem to me to represent the kind of behaviour typical of a psychopath.
I hope this post doesn’t get misconstrued as “name calling” in light of the new kinder and gentler Turner blog, for that is not my intent. I merely wish to point out that PMSH may be demonstrating classic symptoms of a psychopathic illness.
Google psychopath and read more. It might help you to understand the mind at the helm of this foul Harper Regime.
“The first answer comes from Harper mentor, professor, Tory warrior, Reform veteran and author Tom Flanagan. I read his book, “Harper’s Team” when it came out months ago, and was struck in it by the creed the two of them share not to just defeat opponents, but to crush them. Flanagan cites ancient wars in Carthage in which the only victory considered fitting was annihilation – right down to plowing salt into the fields, so crops would never again grow to feed the city.”
Hi Garth – this is quite plausible that Harper would think in this manner. He was one of the few people that chose to insult Pierre Trudeau at the time of his death.
Not too sure how to read you EOE but your style is similar to how Leasa would write. Nothing but sweetness one minute & not so sweet the next if she was proven wrong. Hope I’m wrong but I have this uncanny intuition sometimes that makes me suspicious of people. Maybe it’s your defensive style of argument. Oh well! Regards, By Irene on 08.27.08 5:21 pm
That is exactly the feelings that I have been having for a week or so Irene only I didn’t have the guts to post it nor could I figure out as nice a way to say it as you did. By Bonnie L on 08.27.08 6:08 pm
Surprise. You’re both wrong. First, I am male and Leasa is female. As far as style is concerned, I could say the same about many of you on this blog and could easily match up twos and threes, so let’s not even go there.
Sweet one minute and not so sweet the next? Well, that sure applies to many of you as well so let’s not go there either.
I believe in courtesy and phrasing in a manner to not be offensive or confrontational while, at the same time, being indicative of my viewpoint. If I had presented myself as a Liberal or even NDP or Green, none of this would be an issue. But, because I presented myself as Conservative-leaning, everything I write on this blog is, to some of you, suspect. However, I have rarely seen a reply to my posts which refutes or debates my points without resorting to hyperbole or criticism. And…this indicates to me that I have made a valid point because casting aspersions on my character or identity is evading the actual issue itself.
I have been slagged unfairly, called names, been accused of b****t, etc. All because I am not a Liberal supporter. Seems kind of un-democratic to me.
I also resent the Con-bot or Con-troll terms. I could just as easily call some of you Lib-bot or Lib-troll because it seems that to some of you, anything that Garth or Dion says is gospel and, to some of you, the Liberal Party has never, ever done anything wrong. If that isn’t being a robot, I don’t know what is.
I have been critical of both major parties and I have said many positive things about both parties AND although I disagree with much of what Garth says, I have made many positive comments about him.
What can I say about some of the major players on this blog site? Lots. But, you know what? That is not the purpose of this blog. On rare occasions, when provoked, I sunk to the level of some of my more vocal detractors but only on those rare occasions and only after much provocation.
Even though the language has cleaned up considerably since Garth made his new house rules, the sentiment remains the same. There is a core group who have set themselves up as arbitrators of who’s in and who’s out. There is still personal abuse but it is couched in gentler terms.
I’ve been viewing this blog for a couple of years and nothing has changed. It’s too bad because it could have become a forum for exchange of views and policy if (and it’s a huge “if”) the participants would keep an open mind and avoid all the name-calling and derogatory adjectives.
As far as Leasa is concerned: a few vocal participants took a dislike to her (valid or not valid) and made her life on this site miserable. Now, you are doing the same to me. If that’s how some of you validate your own lives, so be it.
I validate my life through service to my community; making lives of other people just a little bit better. I build up, not tear down.
“Eventually, as Mr. Harper dreams when he is in his happy place, the world will have no more Liberals, progressives or moderates. Just guys like him. Joy”
Send all of us people loving,war hating,free thinking,tree hugging,peace loving,enviromentalist humanitarian hippies to Hawaii .Then they can enslave the third world and have their own “Roman Empire”.
Pppfffaaaaaawww haw haw
Harper and his followers were successful in destroying the Progressive Conservative brand federally and least for now. There is little doubt that the hubris coming from that success has a great deal to do with their thinking. Politics makes strange bedfellows and the NDP have been working with the new Conservatives toward the same end.
The Liberals were elated at the demise of the PCs because they never throught that the hard right could win an election. They saw the removal of another moderate party as a means to retain power indefinately. Chretien’s bitterness against Joe Clark made him an ally of the Reform/CA and the NDPs objective of becoming the official oppostion has led Layton to become in many significant ways an ally of Harper.
We have become a country where petty party dictators play out their games at the expense of the country and its people.
Garth,
If you, Stephane Dion, and the Liberal planners want to grasp what makes people truly Stand Up and get excited, then I strongly suggest watching, carefully considering, and implementing the energy that has been present the past two nights at the democratic national Convention.
Take the meaning and power to enthuse the people that has been delivered by the Governor of Massechusetts, the dynamic speech that former President Bill Clinton gave last night, the sincerity of Joe Biden’s acceptance speech, and realize that they have something the Liberals simply do not…a REAL Vision that MATTERS to the average person.
Harper and Flannigan are living in their own delusional world of self-importance. They are now, to me, non-persons, yet still very dangerous, and I do mean literally DANGEROUS.
I have participated in this forum for a significant period of time now. Have observed, commented, and grown by reading the opinions, and a few actual facts from others. What I feel from it all is I have been witness to a political kindergarten, and that level of childishness has been opernly present in Parliament, especially Question Period.
Last night my wife, who has always been primarily a progressive conservative (which I, in light of the current so-called Conservative movement, regard as being a Centrist, which I am), sat and was moved by the portent and content of the speeches. She had tears of joy in her eyes as we sat and watched and listened to a virtual unvieling of the reality the people in my former country have experienced, and at the key level…the personal level.
Canada needs a real vision. The need for a visionary leader, the likes of Tommy Douglas, the great visionaries that built the CN and CPR, the people who said ‘We Can Do More, and Do It Better’ are rare and MIA currently.
I have had the wonderful opportunity to live across much of Canada from Vancouver to the Arctic, to Alberta, to Ontario. I must say that of all the places I have truly lived life, the Arctic had the most ingenuity, the greatest drive to truly do something for its people. We need that level of vision nationally. We need to decide whether we, as Canadians, are merely second rate clones of the American culture, or truly unique with a vision and message that the world sees as worthy of incorporation.
Europe is doing it. China is doing it. Dubai, India, and South America are doing it.
What is Canada’s National Vision? Who will lead, not merely hold the office of Prime Minister, Canadians to a new and sustainable future?
It certainly is not Stephen Harper.
Bottom line at this point is This threat of an election is clearly unnecessary, but greatly wanted by myself and I think most Canadians. It is a costly, and wastful expenditure. In light of the current plethora of insulting acts by the Harper regime, I think Harper may be, in effect, committing political suicide. GOOD!
It makes ZERO sense to spend $250-300 million on an election only to have the result be the same, and Harper admits that may very well be the result. I think the best summation is from the Goldwater/Johnson campaign. In your guts, you know he’s nuts!
BUT, if he insists, then let us clean the House and get rid of the useless junk we have been dragging around. Let us begin with a new vision, and a sense of adventure. Pretty much like the experience of our move.
Speaking of which, I must now return to the seemingly endless list of projects that have been consuming my time the past few weeks.
So, gaining a majority government is less important than just pulverizing Stephane Dion and setting the Liberals up for even worse pummeling some time after that. – Garth
With all the woes coming for this Government, timing is everything for them. As you say they want the election before the proverbial hits the fan.
However, even if they are successful in getting another minority, it will be their last.
Remember what happened to Paul Martin and his minority Lib government. Despite his best efforts, he was swept away when the proverbial left over from Cretien hit the fan.
He had an advantage over Harper, the mess was not of his own doing. Much of the troubles coming down in the near future is soley the result of Harper policies. Canadians know this and come the following election, should he squeek out another minority this time, Harper will be gone. Time is not on his side.
Halifax Herald, Thursday Aug 29/
“Stephen Harper is asking a judge to reject expert testimony that compares him to an authoritarian ruler.”
“The opinion is part of evidence Liberals filed to argue Harper’s libel claim is an attempt to muzzel opponents”
Not only is he trying to muzzel opponents, but he is trying to muzzel testimony in a court case.
Control freak??
Liberals should be defeated. They are wrong on every issue.
You are running on fear too Garth every other day you are telling us how bad the economy is.
Flanagan’s wrong. This isn’t about history. It’s about the future.
Harper fears it. Dion gives it hope.
“Ditto” thanks Garth…
Yours truly David Bakody, my children and grandchildren.
I read his book, “Harper’s Team” when it came out months ago, and was struck in it by the creed the two of them share not to just defeat opponents, but to crush them. – Garth
Don’t you think that Pierre Trudeau and Jean Chretien had the same mentality?
It’s also called being a successful politician.
I agree with a lot of Mr. Dion’s policies, but he is unable to lead the troops and win an election.
More importantly, why did you vandalize my Wikipedia biography? Here’s the evidence: ” 20:56, 30 July 2008 67.69.136.26 (Talk) (11,211 bytes) (Undid revision 228880179 by Ground Zero (talk)) (undo).” Explain that. — Garth
Geez what a revelation. A political party trying to time an election that is best suited for them. I think the mantra all last spring by you and most of your followers was to wait until the timing is right to pull the plug so we can win. You seem to be speaking out of both sides of you mouth Mr. Turner. The main goal of any government and all politicians is to get re-elected and any other reason you try to spew on this blog is pure rhetoric and I must say you are truly unbelievable with what you try to get past anyone with a brain.
Mr. Harper said his fixed-date election law was to prevent the ability of a PM calling an election “for partisan reasons.” Oh well. — Garth
Harper never said that the next election would produce a minority Conservative government. Everybody assumed he meant that he would win another minority. He can read the polls, there’s an equal chance that it will be a Liberal minority victory.
This could be the closest election ever, the two major parties could come away with nearly identical number of seats. If you thought parliament was disfunctional now… just give it another 6 months.
garth, have you thouhgt of inviting Barak Obama to come to Canada to speak to Canadians, in early October?
(smile)
Garth
I figured you would do that…
Glad to help.
TTFN
“…..the ascendancy of Stephane Dion,…”
Really? Right now he’s ascended to a “best leader” rating of 15% amongst Canadians. (Less amongst Quebecers.)Harper is enjoying about 35%. Bring it on, baby. Bring it on!!!
By Liblooking on 08.28.08 4:59 am
Tell the PMO to give you the updated poll number so you won’t look so…. uneducated. Dion’s leadership numbers on the latest poll are close to 35%. I tell you I was shocked with those numbers as he has gained 20% in a very short time. A couple more Garth style townhall meetings and his leadership numbers will be way over Yo Harpers.
The more I think about it, the more I feel the need to send my own little email to the GG.
A party that is under investigation for ELECTION FRAUD should have that little piece of business cleared up before being allowed to resume electoral business.
This is not a case of partisanship, it is just good sense. Would you hire a company under criminal investigation to perform work for you? Not I, no sir.
Time for some careful composition.
More importantly, why did you vandalize my Wikipedia biography? Here’s the evidence: ” 20:56, 30 July 2008 67.69.136.26 (Talk) (11,211 bytes) (Undid revision 228880179 by Ground Zero (talk)) (undo).” Explain that. — Garth
Are you sure?
Sorry, Garth. Quite honestly, it was not me.
The only thing I can think of it that there are other people who use my machine. I will make sure that I lock it down when I go home at night.
But it’s my fault for not doing this in the first place. For this, I appologize.
Where do you work? I am owed a few answers. — Garth
By Bill-Muskoka (not anymore) on 08.28.08 7:44 am
Bill, I have been watching the Democratic Convention too, and feel the same as you and your wife. Were you struck by the similarities between the Dems and Republican talking points, and the Liberal and Conservative platforms?
Dion could learn a lot from Obama, and the Liberals could learn a lot from the Democrats. I was hoping Dion was watching the DNC last night.
By Brian Wilson on 08.28.08 8:44 am
So I guess Brian that the law on fixed dates that Harper was touting and Jay Hill was advocating was just a bunch of lies and BS…seems to be quite a pattern with the CPC, election legislation, Income trusts, Atlantic Accord…all lies to get elected but never meant a word of it. This is the accountable, honest, ethical government your boy wonder promised…LMAO…
By gary v on 08.28.08 8:04 am
So you and Brian support the lies then…good for you but I am willing to guess most Canadians will be quite annoyed that Haprer has gone against his own election law, among other of his many lies…
Brian: I thought the main goal of my elected M.P. and in turn our elected government was to make the best decisions for the country as a whole–not spend 90% of their time trying to hold on to power.
If the current government would expend as much energy governing as they do political grandstanding, we would all benefit.
I believe Harper has always displayed his “Me First” attitude. I guess he is a product of his generation. To hell with the rest as long as I get what I want.
“…..the ascendancy of Stephane Dion,…”
Really? Right now he’s ascended to a “best leader” rating of 15% amongst Canadians. (Less amongst Quebecers.)Harper is enjoying about 35%. Bring it on, baby. Bring it on!!!
By Liblooking on 08.28.08 4:59 am
Well you are close, but updated numbers can be found here: http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2008/08/14/6449551-cp.html
I can’t ever imagine Dion being Prime Minister. Given the poll numbers as reflected in the CNEWS article, coupled with Harper’s ability to debate Dion into the ground, I see a Liberal Party wipeout coming. Should be fun and I can’t wait to see the most corrupt political organization in Canada brought to their knees. Bring it on, indeed.
To Progressive bloggers.
Below is a message that I emailed to all of my Canadian friends. If you agree with it, cut and paste to your email account and forward it to your friends, relatives, business colleague’s and so on.
We need to get the word out that Harper wants to eliminate like minded people like us from political influence.
Cheers…………..Daryn
______________________________________
I hope you are well wherever you are.
I know that most people are not as interested in politics as I am. Still, I felt it necessary to send out this message in regards to all of the election talk that is going on in the news.
Prime Minister Steven Harper, has said or hinted on several occasions that he
wants to destroy the Liberal Party and eliminate from political influence all of the progressive forces in the country.
To date, he has assimilated the old Progressive Conservative Party into the fold of what is essentially, the former Religious Right-wing Reform Party. He has further spent $3.4 million on adds degrading the reputation of the Liberal leader, sued key Liberals, Mr. Dion himself and the Liberal Party; fully knowing that the Liberal Party is near financial ruin and that its key members are already highly in debted. This up coming election will cost the liberal party an additional $17 million dollars; increasing its debt load and thus diminishing its influence further. And the list goes on.
While Mr. Harper believes he will not win a majority in the next election, he does hope that the costs incurred by the Liberal party and the resulting leadership convention after the election will incapacitate the Liberal party leading to its political demise.
Have a look at this article:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080827/Harperstrategy_080827/20080827?hub=TopStories
I kid you not, these people are angry and hate Liberals and Liberal values.
There will in all likelihood be an election before the end of the year.
So, if you care about values such as, universal health coverage, accessible post secondary education, the role of woman in Canada, multiculturalism & cultural tolerance, political independence vis-a-vis the USA, peace keeping, balanced budgets, a positive working relationship with China, sustainable economic development, or pro-active policies on environmental issues, you should think about voting Liberal and perhaps even support them as a volunteer or with a small donation.
Sorry to bother you with this.
Spread the word,
_______________________________________
By Brian Wilson on 08.28.08 8:44 am
In terms of transparency, accountability, ethics, or honesty, does anything at all matter to the Conservative Party, and are you willing to tolerate and support anything they do if the ends justify the means?
There is ample evidence that the intent of the law, as campaigned on, promoted, and enacted was to remove the ability of the government to pick a date beneficial to themselves to force an election.
With total disregard to the intent of the legislation, and showing total disregard for a strongly held position, the Conservative Party is prepared to abandon their principles for the sake of political expediency.
I guess that is what you are really trying to say Brian.
Given, that they have been so successful to date implementing their agenda and that they have admitted that they have no realistic hope for a majority, what is the point of going to the polls?
There seem to be two correct answers to this question:
1. They have looked in to their crystal ball and don’t like what they see. They expect things to get much worse over the next six months to a year in regards to the economy, jobs, afghanistan, investigations, and scandals. So much worse, that they fear losing power altogether.
2. They see this as one step in further hobbling a weak Liberal Party. It is a gambit in a long term game to do their best to destroy the Liberal Party.
If the latter answer is the primary reason, I should like to point out that $300 million or so dollars that it takes to run an election is being done for the sole benefit of the Conservative Party. It is in no way of any benefit to the people of Canada.
So much for integrity, honesty, transparency, accountability or any other high standard that the Conservatives sold us on.
Really, this makes the Liberals look like saints by comparison. And as a life long Progressive Conservative, it pains me to say that. I detested Trudeau and Chretien and what they did.
This, though, takes the cake. It is a borderline assault against democracy, when a Party’s purpose is to destroy the opposition.
If you’re evidence is correct, I’m quite embarrassed (and distraught) that I let this happen.
Rest assured, it will not happen again.
The evidence is published for you to view on a third-party site. Again I ask for your assistance in uncovering this vandalism. Email me in confidence at garth@garth.ca. — Garth
As far as Leasa is concerned: a few vocal participants took a dislike to her (valid or not valid) and made her life on this site miserable. Now, you are doing the same to me. If that’s how some of you validate your own lives, so be it.
I validate my life through service to my community; making lives of other people just a little bit better. I build up, not tear down.
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 7:17 am
…a little dramatic here or what?
Van ON – you say Liberals are wrong on issues…that’s your viewpoint and it doesn’t mean they are wrong – it just means “you think” they are wrong.
Seems to me that Harper wants to create and extreme left and extreme right wing Canada – this is dangerous.
The main goal of any MP is to make two terms to score full pension. Things are a lot less upsetting once that’s accepted. Its not all that nasty of a situation if you have any faith in the democratic process at all.
How the most openly competitive social structure in history still expects the halls of power to be temples of altruism is beyond me. In that respect our transcendance of Plato’s Republic is mininal.
For your information, the average MP’s tenure is 4.2 years. The time required for a pension to commence is 6 years (but only if the MP is over 55), and it is not a “full pension” if you mean replacing earned income. My pension after 8 years in the House of Commons will be less than $29,000 should I quit at the end of this year. The last time I enquired, fewer than 1,000 people in the entire country were drawing an MP’s pension, of any size. This is no motivation for the job. — Garth
The tragedy that is Canadian politics these days is that sarcasm and invective passes as acceptable debate. That a sitting PM is the target of such invective is deplorable, that he resorts to the same is shameful. Sarcasm, that argument of the intellectually lazy or feeble, passes for wit. A prominent trusted advisor to the PM seems to advocate the destruction of the opposition, using the sowing of salt in farm land as a metaphor, and does so not only publicly, but without hesitation or remorse suggests to me that we are moving closer to a fascist mindset. One without checks and balances, where the state and business are one in the same, in a totalitarian mindset.
Last night on the news, the Prime Minister whose name shall go unwritten in this post, as I am embarassed by him as our leader, stated categorically that he expected a minority government again. This of course suggests that there must be another reason for the election if the result will not be substantially different, and thus the comments by his advisors become clear and in context.
I hope that the electorate is more understanding than I suspect government gives them credit for. For the government’s view of this Country is not shared by me or apparently millions of others. The Canada that I grew up in and came to love, where ideas can be discussed without fear of personal attack, where passsions can be aroused without the use of baseball bat inflicted metaphors, where politics has at least at the facade of decency and honour (one of the cornerstones of the Reform’s views on Parliment), where at least we acknowledge one’s right to hold a differing viewpoint and the existance of a parlimentary opposition is not viewed as a war between blood enemies, must not be allowed to fade into the shadows of the past.
If my fellow citizens decide that they disagree with me, then so be it. The choice will be mine thereafter, to remain and work for change or to seek new pastures that are more compatible with my values.
I do suggest however, that the governing party may have to ask itself if this is their vision of the country as well. That if their leader cannot muster a majority government after so many tries, with what they have stated so clearly are ineffectual leaders of the opposition, then perhaps the fault lies within.
Daryn
So if I don’t vote Liberal I don’t care about universal health care, post secondary education, tolerance, women. Wow, stand back a bit and take in some perspective. During the last election, the MSM was saying there was really no difference between the Libs and the Cons, and they were right. Both spend to win votes, whip their votes, and neither of who are in a hurry to reverse the other’s legislations. You can care about all of those things and still vote Cons, or Libs, or NDs, or Green
Kerry
“For your information… – Garth”
I appreciate that. My hyperbole was intentional. Thanks for speaking up.
My point was the system works, more or less, even if anything above mud wrestling for donations is a bonus. I’ve little doubt most of the folks who run for office aren’t in it for their health. I just don’t think being so should be part of their job description.
qualifications, of course, but not job description.
Watching the Democratic national Convention last night and caught Walter Mondale’s interview where he talks about the NEOCON influence in America over the last eight years and the incredible turn of events in the American economy where the USA went from the largest surplus in American history under Pres. Clinton to the largest deficit in US history under Bush. He also talked about the corruption of the White house and the very diminished standing of the USA internationally.
Of course we all know that Harper is a disciple of the NEOCON ideology and I was struck by the parallels we are dealing with here in Canada.
As we review the record of the NEOCONS over the past 8 years in the US we can get a preview of what we are going to get from Harper as we follow his NEOCON agenda here in Canada.
We too are facing a pivotal time in our history, so yes please bring it on and everyone start working now to bring hope to our country not fear.
The Governor-General’s daily press clippings to-day will contain some straight advice from a “professor of international, constitutional and human rights law at the University of Ottawa and editor-in-chief of the National Journal of Constitutional Law.”
In an Opinion article in the Ottawa Citizen, “Harper is in a fix”, Errol P. Mendes notes –
“Ignoring the fact that most of his agenda has passed through Parliament and become law, Mr. Harper and other Conservatives point to the dysfunctional nature of parliamentary committees such as the one examining whether the advertising expenses practices of the Conservatives breached the Elections Act. The parliamentary channel’s coverage of the proceedings has revealed that it was primarily the disruptive antics of the Conservative party members on the committee and the failure of Conservative witnesses to appear before the committee that was the cause of the dysfunction of this committee. The secret, 200-page Conservative guidebook to disrupt and manipulate parliamentary committees — including chairs storming out of meetings — is proof that it is the Conservatives who are orchestrating the dysfunction in Parliament and then blaming it on the opposition parties.”
Mendes concludes:
“If the prime minister does decide to ignore the fixed election date and ask the governor general to dissolve Parliament soon after Labour Day because it is dysfunctional, it would be akin to a person who has blown up his own house asking the rest of us to build him a new one.
“If not the rule of law, a most basic sense of political morality should make the prime minister think twice about breaking his own law.”
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/opinion/story.html?id=d24396f8-fb42-4856-a01e-03eb128d1dcf
Hope Her Excellency has the wisdom to pull Harper up short when he calls, and to tell him to start making like the Government of Canada instead of CPC Headquarters. Parliament can then express it’s lack of confidence in due course.
The evidence is published for you to view on a third-party site. Again I ask for your assistance in uncovering this vandalism. Email me in confidence at garth@garth.ca. — Garth
Garth;
What is your goal in uncovering this vandalism?
Again, if your evidence is correct, I’ve locked down my machine. So, it won’t happen again.
Garth, I feel realy ill about this…
Then let’s do something about it. — Garth
Can someone explain to me why, when Liberals and Dion abstain because the election timing does not fit them is OK but when the Conservatives and Harper do the same and try to chose a timing that fits them it is wrong?
Then let’s do something about it. — Garth
That’s my question…
What do you want to do?
To out those who vandalize public online spaces. — Garth
“My pension after 8 years in the House of Commons will be less than $29,000 should I quit at the end of this year.”
heh. when was the last time you checked? (just teasing)
very useful information, btw. In general, I mean. Not you personally, of course, except to say “good work” and “thanks”.
Don’t need to check. This info is provided by the House to members annually. Thanks anyway. — Garth
Harper may find that the next election just may turn out to be a somewhat of a surprise.
Current news media headlines overwhelmingly condemn his failures as a ‘leader’. It was the news media in the past that gave him and his gang of misfits credibility, calling him a ‘brilliant strategist’ (if Harper is a ‘brilliant strategist’, then I’m a rocket scientist because I turn on my computer before I start typing), and completely ignoring the ominous ramblings of the likes of Flanagan.
Along with a woman scorned, there is no greater fury than a press corps taken in by a politician’s duplicity.
More importantly, why did you vandalize my Wikipedia biography? Here’s the evidence: ” 20:56, 30 July 2008 67.69.136.26 (Talk) (11,211 bytes) (Undid revision 228880179 by Ground Zero (talk)) (undo).” Explain that. —
Garth
By Lex Luthor on 08.28.08 8:31 am
Garth, I feel realy ill about this…***
Then let’s do something about it. — Garth
By Lex Luthor on 08.28.08 10:19 am
***I’ll just goddamned well bet, you snivelling, cowardly, bastard!
Dion could learn a lot from Obama, and the Liberals could learn a lot from the Democrats. I was hoping Dion was watching the DNC last night.
By Lana on 08.28.08 9:25 am
Yes, Dion can, and it will be a short lesson for him because he already understands how to talk straight to people, answer questions, and form a genuine team in which he listens, leads, and seeks the best solutions.
Yes, I noted the similarities way back in 1996 when I first came into knowledge of Canadian politics. I literally thought then, and still do, that the same scripting team, aka Karl Rove, was writing for both the Reform/Alliance Party and the Republicans.
I saw them as dangerous then, but now I KNOW they are and must be stopped. Easiest way is to mandate adherence to the law and the Charter.
Bush has literally violated his oath to ‘uphold, protect, and defend the Constitution’ which is, after all else is said and done, the DUTY of everyone who takes that oath. I took it as a Marine, and so has every other person in the U.S. Military. It is NOT an oath to defend the Commander in Chief, I.e. President or Congress.
That, to me, is the most serious of issues. When any politician or oath taker violates that they have crossed a line that has NO forgiveness. It is the heart and soul of what any democratic nation is based on. Not current politics, but the CONTRACT between the people and their government. In short, such a violation is TREASON.
As to what Canadians seem to focus on, it appears vengence, not a path for the future. If we, as a nation, intend to remain Canada, and not become Canuckistan, then we had better start demanding that elected officials comply to the letter with the contract they have sworn to keep.
Harper is, IMO, severely mentally disturbed. He must be removed from office for the good of Canada and our society.
As to Obama coming to Canada…I do not think he will have time, but there are over one million former Americans who have immigrated here and they can still vote if they have their citizenship.
Back to revising our new abode. LOL
This, though, takes the cake. It is a borderline assault against democracy, when a Party’s purpose is to destroy the opposition.
By Ed Brooks on 08.28.08 9:49 am
Nothing borderline about it, almost every action of this government is an assault upon our parlimentry democracy!
By AD on 08.28.08 10:21 am
Fairly easy AD, Harper was the one that wanted fixed election dates so that no sitting Pm could look at the polls and say, “ah we have em now”, he claimed it was designed to provide a level playing field for all. Now that the ” —- has hit the fan” with the “in & out” scheme, he figures he better go now before the truth comes out. Just another example of his fine ethics, accountable and honest government gone to the dogs for political expedience. Now would the others do this, quite likely, but unfortunately Harper campaigned in 2006 on this, so it makes him look deceitful again…
By wjp on 08.28.08 9:31 am
By Judy on 08.28.08 9:34 am
By Ed Brooks on 08.28.08 9:49 am
Your outrage at a politician saying one thing and doing something else is truly breathtaking. Especially you Mr. Brooks who claims to be non-biased. The Libs for 12 years and Mr. McGuinty for his tenure have broken so many promises I have lost track.(every politician comes in saying they are going to change the way things are done— honesty, transparency blah, blah blah—-even “The Messiah” and then he goes and picks a VP that has served in the Senate longer than McCain. Mr. Harper is probably going to be doing something that he would prefer not to but if parliament is not working then he will do the expedient thing and dissolve and let the electorate make the decision. I would think all Liberals would love this because if he is doing as bad a job as you people portray on this blog then he does not stand a chance of being re-elected and the Libs should win a majority. I have one question for all the Lib-lovers on this blog “What the hell are you afraid of”? or does that great quote come in to play here “if you are not a liberal before the age of 30 you have no heart and if you are not a conservative after 30 you have no brain”–discuss amongst yourselves.
***I’ll just goddamned well bet, you snivelling, cowardly, bastard!
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 08.28.08 10:37 am
Classy. Nice to see that everybody is abiding by Garth’s house rules.
“Don’t need to check. This info is provided by the House to members annually. Thanks anyway. — Garth”
Well you’re sharper than I am. I never remember that stuff. Mind you, I have the luxury of counting backwards.
By MUSKOKA JILL on 08.28.08 9:43 am
You seemed to have missed a huge point here, Canadians do not vote parties in but out, and Mr, Harper has given voters ample reason to do so…
A poster yesterday attached a link to an article describing the characteristics of fascism. In that article was a quote by Huey Long, former Governor of Louisiana proclaiming that when fascism comes to America it will come wrapped in an American flag. It sends a chill over me to realize that when fascism comes to Canada it will come wrapped in a cheap paper Conservative 10 percenter.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 08.28.08 10:37 am
P.P.
You are not making anything easy for Garth with this kind of post. Whether or not I agree, it would be best if those of us who participate on the blog help Garth deal with people who are only making personal comments rather than contributing to the debate.
Stick to the issue. Leave the people out of it.
Your comments just give the detractors ammunition to attack this blog, Garth, and the participants.
BTW, your formats make your posts bizarre and hard to read. Unfortunately, this detracts from what is often a worthwhile read.
History has proved that in the end good always triumphs over evil, the untold story is the loss of lives in the battle. I would however suggest that the earth can not take the strain much longer due to the vast amounts of energy that is expended in each and every one to theses conflicts. Wars be they industrial, religious, economic and political take their tolls on people and resources. I have mentioned to a few over coffee that I would not have believed one man could damage the entire world but George W Bush sure has. Of course in reality he is but one man designated as leader, but then again so is Stephen Harper and their core idealisms are founded on the same principles, “Democracy by Force” and accept no other points of views. What Garth Turner has written is correct and we can only hope more with take his words into thought. We now know that Stephen Harper accomplished his first goal and that was to shut down the MSM then bring only those on stream who would carry his message. I fear deeply for my beloved CBC, as it has been proven that when public broadcasting is shut down the soul of a country begins to die. Think when a country is invaded the first thing the invaders do is shut down the local radio and news stations only to open them up soon with their controlled messages only…hmm forgot about that did ya? Please do continue on your mission Garth, for you may have more soldiers than you are aware of, Harper and Co, need money lots of money to complete their task, and that can only come from we the working people and like many south of border many will soon find out the truth. We are Canadians and will not buy into all that flag waving stuff our love has always been our family and when asked for help we have always shared if we felt the cause was right. Perhaps our next accumulated cause may be to stand up to Harper the Bully on Hill, I for one sure hope so.
By MUSKOKA JILL on 08.28.08 9:43 am
You seemed to have missed a huge point here, Canadians do not vote parties in but out, and Mr, Harper has given voters ample reason to do so…
By wjp on 08.28.08 10:52 am
UH???? I’m not sure I understand your reasoning or your point. Mine was that all of the polling data points to bad news for the Liberals. You may think that there are lots of reasons for voters to not like Mr. Harper, and cleary you do not see eye to eye with him; but polls do seem to reflect that from a leadership and issues-driven perspective, Canadians are much warmer to Mr. Harper than Mr. Dion. And that, in my humble opinion, does not bode well for the Liberal Party…….other than they will have the opportunity after losing the election to elect a real leader.
By Brian Wilson on 08.28.08 10:49 am. Too right, Brian. Chrétien and McGuinty are right up there for breaking promises and misinformation.
By maybe Rhino? on 08.28.08 11:02 am. Thanks for that. At least the other abusive one has ceased and desisted but this one…I’m surprised the comment was posted. I thought Garth was going to ban this sort of thing.
Well, well, if Steven Harper was planning to use the Liberal Green Shift as his big Fear monger slogan about rising gas & energy prices I suggest he had better find another scare tactic as this kind of debunks his claim of blaming it all on the Green Shift
http://tinyurl.com/67fkzc
By MUSKOKA JILL on 08.28.08 11:08 am
Well I take your point Jill, the only problem is that the Liberal brand still seems to be faring well regardless of the figures you quote for Mr. Dion. And my point is that Canadians do not vote parties in but rather out, I know the CPC would like to think they won the last election but the truth is Canadians threw the Liberals out because of Adscam and while you may think Mr. Harper is a better leader, he still has alienated many with his non-accountable stand on income trusts, his dissing of Maritimers with the Atlantic accord broken promise and now with this obvious play to cry parliament isn’t working, and in particular the committees, all that has done has highlight his 200 page dirty tricks booklet for committee chairs. His promise to be different has disintegrated into smoke, and unfortunately the screen is coming off. I don’t think he has a choice but to call an election at this time but he looks really bad doing it, but it will be some much worse when the truth comes on the “in & out” scheme that he has to go now and pray people are uninformed.
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 10:50 am
By maybe Rhino? on 08.28.08 11:02 am
My comments were not addressed to either of you.
When I see a PISSEROO, I say so.
It’s more a lesson in options, isn’t it. It’s NOT your option to allow or
disallow … Microsoft and The Hon. Garth have that right. As for reading it, I suggest you practise the drive-by scroll technique.
I’m listening to Layton in Denver now. The squeeze is unbearable for US. Make sure you check out. Committment, oy vey, I am one of Layton’s 2.5 million people who voted for him in the last election and every one since I was 18.
Let’s have a dif vision please. I may be over the fence, but I haven’t lost my socialist values. The next month is gonna be intereting.
By Molly on 08.27.08 11:49 pm
________________________________________
You vote for Layton, you vote for Harper. Why? Why would you do that? Do you like Harper? Do you like his vision for this country? Do you think that Layton has a snowball’s chance in Hell of forming a government to take this menace (Harper) down? Get off the Kool-Aid and understand what’s at stake.
Dion is the only one who can do it, and if you are listening to the likes of Mulchair (Correct my spelling if I’m wrong) the toady for Layton, who is the toady for Harper, you are being so misled. All Layton thinks about is his own glory. Excuse me Garth, when I say this. I know you’ve asked for decorum. But Layton is nothing but Harper’s whore. A vote for Layton is a vote for Harper.
What we have to do is bring down this menace, Harper. We won’t do it by voting for Layton. Have you even watched Layton in these past 2 years? I have more respect for the Bloc. At least they seem to have a handle on who Harper really is. All the NDP can do is to try shredding the Liberals in the vain hope of garnering a few more seats. That’s the definition of a whore. They’re willing to sell themselves for whatever small gain they think they can muster. Do you really think that these people have the best interests of the country at heart? I don’t think so.
What we really need to do is to boot Harper so soundly to the curb that he won’t know what hit him.
Do you remember 1993? I remember that day as though it was yesterday. I walked to the polling booth and all I saw as I looked around were people walking alone, walking in groups. but people with a single purpose. Nobody spoke. The streets were silent. All that was on their mind was to annihate Brian Mulroney. And they did.
Harper is worse than Mulroney ever was.
We need to vote together.
So, gaining a majority government is less important than just pulverizing Stephane Dion and setting the Liberals up for even worse pummeling some time after that. – Garth
Turn-about is fair play. After years of being subjected to the “Shawinigan handshake” by the Liberals it’s only fair that the Conservatives now have their blue suede shoe firmly pressing down on the Liberals’ windpipe, choking off their supply of oxygen.
Enjoy!
Angry Quebec artist compares Harper to Hitler at demo against cutbacks
Sylvain Larocque—Canadian Press—Wednesday, August 27, 2008
http://www.thespec.com/article/425832
http://media.hamiltonspectator.com/images/94/07/08957b4a4bd79d6049465cb6550c.jpeg
”Hundreds of Quebec singers, actors, dancers and writers gathered in a Montreal square to condemn nearly $45 million in funding cuts announced recently by the Conservative government. The demonstration was organized by Culture Montreal and the Montreal arts council.”
I don’t know why I have to repeat myself … over, over and over!
Nostradamus identified an individual named HISTER … NOT HARPER
Although there are definite character similarities—
http://palestinethinktank.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/harper.bmp
It occurs to me … someone should tell Dean Del Mastro, so he can write ANOTHER letter to the editor of the Peterborough Examiner.
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 11:12 am
I have been using bulletin boards since the early ’90′s, before the Net was popular. We often had to deal with abusive stuff, and did not rely on the mediator to police the board. It was effective.
All of us who want an intelligent debate need to help Garth police this type of thing. If someone only gets “yuks” in response to their posting, it encourages them to continue. If they get brickbats, sometimes they will get themselves back under control.
this election will be fought in Quebec and Atlantic canada. The West is hopelessly ahered to the Cons, even at the expense of income trusts, etc., Ontario will probably see no huge gains but Quebec is the battleground. And if Harper called the elction, his data suggests he can make gains there, no doubt about it. Be worried, be very worried.
By Brian Wilson on 08.28.08 10:49 am
Brian..you and I both know that John Tory had that election until he came out with the faith based schools idea…McGuinty was toast with his lie!!
John is a really good man, and I had many discussion with him via e-mail on his proposal before he annouced it even going as far as suggesting he withdraw the Catholic system in favour of one system for all. But unfortunately, he went ahead with his idea, which never really was explained properly to the electorate, it just gave the Libs the bashing tool they needed. So I am not sure McGuinty won that one, I think it was handed to him. As to your other point, I am no Lib lover…when I voted for Harper, i took him at his word, yes all politicians make all kinds of promises but he made transparency and accountability a pillar of his campaign and unfortunately I bought it. I didn’t think I had a choice at that point because there was no way I was going to vote Liberal. I was sadly mistaken…
By Brian Wilson on 08.28.08 10:49 am
Brian,
Where have I ever indicated that I am non-biased? I am a still a paid up member of the Conservative Party of Canada.
Here’s the problem, Brian. The Conservatives promised to be better than the Liberals. When I worked to convince other to vote Conservative in the last election, I said we are different. We will be transparent, accountable, etc. We are better than the Liberals. Believe me, when we won the election, I was thrilled that we would have the chance to demonstrate what integrity was.
Well, the people that I talked to, are all coming back and saying that we Conservatives are no different than the Liberals. And, you by your own words are admitting that. I don’t have an argument to throw back at this accusation. If your argument is that the Conservatives are no worse than the Liberals, then you don’t have an answer either.
How about justifying the statement that this Parliament is not working? It seems to me that the Conservatives have been doing a pretty good job of implementing their agenda. Instead, you insult and denigrate the thoughtful comments of people who have real concerns about how our government performs.
The argument that this Parliament is dysfunctional is patently false. It is a trumped up excuse to get to the polls before many converging stories get the Conservatives cornered in their own ineptness. If there is any fear at play here, it is manifested in the desperation that is driving the Conservatives to go to the polls when they don’t even see the remote conditions to achieve a majority government.
As I am not a “Lib-lover”, I can’t directly respond to what they might be afraid of. Frankly, if the Conservatives want to roll the dice and spend $300 Million in a war against the Liberal Party, that’s their call ultimately. As most Canadians don’t particularly care about politics between elections, I have no idea how this will play out. But, rest assured, that those of us that are paying attention are disgusted by the antics of this government.
Slogan for the Conservatives in the coming election campaign:
“We don’t think we are worse than those other guys.”
You go ahead and sell that message when you are out campaigning.
I will look forward to your thoughtful response…
Like Garth, I also read Tom Flanagan’s op-ed piece in today’s G&M:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4113.htm
I was struck by his use of Cato the Elder’s famous admonition, ‘Cathargo delendo est’ (Carthage must be destroyed). So I did a bit of research and came up with this summary of the third Punic War.
http://history.boisestate.edu/WESTCIV/punicwar/17.shtml
As it turns out, Cato was ticked off by the prosperity of Carthage despite having been thrashed twice by Rome.
And I asked myself, self who does this remind you of? The first character that came to mind was The Grinch, who looked down on Whoville and was royally upset that they all seemed so happy and contented. Whoville delenda est!
What kinds of people take pleasure in the genocide of a people and the destruction of a civilization? What does it say about the nature of their souls that they see triumph where there is only misery, both for the victors and the vanquished?
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 11:12 am
Here’s the problem EOE. You feign neutrality in your very thoughtful posts. At the end of the day, however, you virtually always take a ‘soft’ Conservative landing. I don’t really believe that you are neutral.
The Conservatives promised better. To point at the Liberals and say “They did it”, as an excuse for Conservative behaviour just doesn’t cut it for me.
Maybe it’s just me, but if we continue to accept this approach, it will never get any better.
By maybe Rhino? on 08.28.08 11:25 am. I remember being on a BBS and thinking how modern it was. Then, the Web came about. I agree that we should issue a few brickbats at those who abuse Garth’s largesse and make him look bad. I find that sort of unwarranted personal attack to be repugnant and not at all in keeping with adult dialogue.
My concern is that Garth will be seen as approving of this sort of thing. And, as Garth pointed out subtly, it reflects on him and we are sort of, in a way, vaguely…if the decision ever is made…in election mode.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 08.28.08 11:20 am. You’re correct: it is a lesson in options and I exercise my option to say that your personal attacks go against what Garth requested and are, quite honestly, offensive.
Just out of curiousity, have any polls been conducted to see how many, if any, Progressive Conservatives who made the leap of faith to the Conservative Party are happy with where they landed?
By ML on 08.28.08 11:21 am
(smile)
I am not fan of Layton, and have a similar view to yours about him, but I must say…
The CBC did an interview with Layton this morning, while he is in Denver glad-handing US politicians at the Dem’s convention. He had some very interesting remarks about being called forth by Harper to discuss the future of Parliament that would tend to indicate he is beginning to recognise he needs some “distance” between the NDP and the CPC.
He stated he “knew” it as just political theatre, and did not expect it to make any difference in the election call as the Harperites had already made the decision. His comments were not complimentary to the situation either. (note: my choice of terms)
Political expediency – absolutely!
Refreshing? definitely!!!
And, like all “good” politicians, he got his plugs for his agenda in.
Brian Wilson wrote:
“What the hell are you afraid of”?
“In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up.”
See my previous post re: the Flanagan quote, ‘Carthago delenda est’.
Also am reminded of my favourite arch-villains, the Darleks -’Exterminate, exterminate’.
If you doubt my authority to paranoia read the following memoir re: Chicago, 1968:
http://www.counterpunch.org/albert08282008.html
Or check out the standoff at Ipperwash, or the violent police riots at Queen’s Park. How about the measured response in Lebanon, where Robert Fisk witnessed a clearly marked ambulance that had been bombed by Israeli aircraft?
I suggest you practise the drive-by scroll technique. By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 08.28.08 11:20 am.
And I suggest you do the same when you see Garth and a poster discussing something which has nothing to do with you or if you see a post which you don’t like. It may be a good idea for you to practice what you preach, Pyotr.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 08.28.08 11:25 am
Exactly, show me a county, city or town without any culture and I will show the a country, town or city without a future. Bash the liberal thinking all you care to do, but the performing arts have inspired many people from the days of the Roman Empire to achieve greatness in their professional talents that remain to-day front and centre on the stages of the world.
By William on 08.28.08 6:58 am
I have in all seriousness, thought the same for some time and still do. I had an interesting chat with a phycology professor who took her training in Berkley. What she told me surprised me. She said that 1% of the population were phycopaths with a violent nature while a further 2% of the population are phycopaths who are non-violent (I didn’t think the percentages were that high and believed all phycopaths to be violent before talking to her). I tend to believe that those trained to profile phycopaths would agree with your assessment. “Snakes in Suits” is a book that keeps coming to mind on the subject.
build up, not tear down.
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 7:17 am
East,
I will defend your views. We have had some interesting dialogues and that is healthy debate. If anyone here cares to listen you are fair in your criticism – although I still hold some hope you will vote liberal next time.
I found Mr. Flanigan’s comments chilling. My husband tells me I am naïve as I want M. Dion to play fair in the upcoming election even though Steve likes it in the mud. We have some very serious issues to deal with and slinging mud will not solve them. Solutions are what Mr. Harper should be presenting to Canadians.
This north of 60 tour is just a photo op. How many troops does Mr. Harper think are stationed in Alaska? How many troops does Mr. Harper think are stationed in Siberia?
This sovereignty wrap myself in a flag true north strong and free is a media event – not a solution.I guess the Coast Guard is going to have to borrow kayaks from the Inuit to patrol.
Did you read my post on the 2006 Election In and Out scheme? Did it shed any more light on the whole sorry affair?
Hi All, have you been able to watch any of the Ethics Committee ‘in-out’ law breaking, probably?
It’s on C-PAC TV reruns.
I hope you All get some time to watch for your selves.
The CPC harper gang are just disgusting the why there are screwing with the committees work.
And they call them selves PM’s.
You have heard they have a 200 page book on how to disrupt and stop committee works? Because they do! I want my Government to work for the common good, not just for PMSH and his buddy Bush & corporate lobbyists.
I can’t remember them all, but if you are from Calodon or Burlington you need to be paying attention, and let your neighbors know, so we can kick these bums out when the harper gang falls, and the election is on.
Will PMSH break his own election law? No one should be above the law!!!!
I suggest you knock on your neighbors door and tell them you have been paying attention and are conserved about were PMSH is tatting Canada.
Ask them to vote ABC next, but to vote. (Anything but conservative -harper & gang)
Check the online platforms of all the party leaders and you independent people running in your area, before you vote.
The cpc harper party is nothing like the CP parties of past. Have you been paying attention?
harper and his gang have stolen the cpc title. Please be sure you know who and what you are voting for next.
You and your family’s future depends on it!
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 08.28.08 11:20 am,
No one should be placed above the rules. Just because your comments were directed towards another individual does not make them appropriate here or anywhere else. You lack of respect for civil discourse on the internet is also revealed in your bolded comments. Like Harry S. your comments have been on my don’t bother with list for some time unless I read them by accident.
Like eastofeden and Maybe Rhino I would hope that Garth would not have double standards on acceptable behaviour simply because you support the Liberals.
Garth is not infallible, and catches what he can on this blog. Read nothing into occasional omissions. — Garth
By Bocanut on 08.27.08 11:26 pm
Your information is dated. Kyoto is all but dead with Europe being the prime reason for its demise. And as far as Kyoto goes with credits, I suggest you have some reading to do before you can put up a “reasoned” argument that Canada will send billions to China assuming Kyoto ever does get off the ground. And yes, I’ll gladly debate you on the subject. As they say, “it was over before it began”.
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 12:02 pm
I don’t RECALL asking you for ADVICE on anything.
Perhaps you could remind me WHEN I made such a request.
Otherwise, because ‘walking is therapeutic,’ just keep on walking … or stroll/scroll-by as the case may be.
By wjp on 08.28.08 11:29 am
Well, aren’t we just two peas in a pod today?
By wjp on 08.28.08 11:29 am
It was the first time that I didn’t vote Conservative in a Provincial election.
What a stupid, stupid policy to hang your hat on.
I believe that the current system is flawed, and I don’t quite understand why there aren’t court challenges over the whole issue. How can you fund a Separate (Catholic) system and not others without Human Rights lawyers not beating down the doors to get into a courtroom?
Now, if he had campaigned on getting rid of the Separate system in favour of one public education system, he would have had my support.
Well, while we have a crisis with listeria and deaths related to it, Tony Clement is in Denver….making jokes about. That’s right folks, Tony Clement thinks it’s funny that people died of food contamination.
CPC trolls, you must be proud.
By Reid on 08.28.08 11:21 am
Ask yourself why the Libs were able to give the right the “Shawinigan Handshake” as you put it?
Could it have been because following the demise of the Kim Campbell the right broke into the PC’s and the Reformers? Could it be that this allowed the Libs to capture seats they wouldn’t have had the right vote not been split? Could it have been that the “Shawinigan handshake” was self inflicted?
And as we have seen, once the right reunited (hostile takeover), the Libs couldn’t count on the split right wing vote.
On that score we are now back to pre-Cretien days, a right wing party the CPC, the Libs, and the NDP (not forgetting the Bloq in Quebec.
Now its all about policy. After 13 years of the Libs, Canada wanted a change. Without a split vote, the CPC gained only a minority. Now we have seen glimpses of the true CPC; and as we have found out they are not the PC’s of old, not even close. This means at this election, Mr. Harper won’t be able to count of the more moderate conservative voters to support him as they now know that he doesn’t reflect their wishes.
By Bonnie N BC on 08.28.08 12:08 pm.
Thanks, Bonnie N. I also enjoy our back-and-forth discussions. You are always logical and non-confrontational and that makes for purposeful and productive discourse.
I do apologize; I meant to get back to you on the in-and-out scheme but somehow it slipped through the cracks (Perhaps I can blame it on being smoke-free, cold turkey, for five days…my mind is a bit fuzzy right now. LOL): I think the in-and-out scheme is disgusting and, once again, I e-mailed our PM to express myself.
My colleague and I are similar in both our political and religious views. We were discussing our PM just yesterday and both expressed our disappointment in him. I will freely admit that his being a man of faith influenced my decision to vote for him (I have been open about my faith on this site). I also voted for him because he was not associated with the party that bore the stench of Chretien and his corrupt cronies. I will not vote NDP, ever, because I lived through two provincial NDP governments (Manitoba and Ontario).
I continue to wonder what our PM is thinking, these days. I had so much hope for the country with him at the helm and now I am not sure at all. I also hope that we do not have an election until 2009 because, to be honest, I am weary of it all. I wish Dion and Harper would just can the election talk until such time as it is called.
As for voting Liberal, get rid of Iggy and Rae and then I’ll consider it, but not before that. I’m just wondering when one of them will make the move to depose Dion. As I have said in an earlier post or two, I don’t envy Dion at all. He’s a nice guy with two snakes on either side of him.
_________________
Garth is not infallible, and catches what he can on this blog. Read nothing into occasional omissions. — Garth.
No worries, Garth. You and I are not on the same page most of the time but I do believe that you are sincere in your desire for meaningful dialogue on your blog and I do respect you for a number of reasons, not the least of which is making yourself accessible through this blog.
By Ed Brooks on 08.28.08 11:41 am
Ed I respect your opinion and you make some valid points. I happen to like Mr. Harper and as far as I am concerned he hasn’t done anything that would cause me to change “my opinion” of him. Some of the conservatives have not held up their end but that can be said for all parties. I would sooner have Mr. Harper at 24 Sussex than anyone else right now. I am not a card carrying Conservative and do not take part in campaigns but I do vote and he will get my vote again. I can honestly say I would probably never vote Liberal and with Dion in charge you can remove the probably.
Garth is not infallible…
What, Garth, you are not the man I thought you were. Here I thought you were some sort of super M.P. but now you reveal you are infallible. What is this place coming to.
By Ed Brooks on 08.28.08 11:41 am
Excellent rebuttal, Ed. (wouldn’t wanna be on the other end, lol)
By Ed Brooks on 08.28.08 11:52 am.
Perhaps it is in my delivery; I believe you have misunderstood me. I do not feign neutrality nor do I claim to be neutral; I have been very clear that I am, at the moment, a Conservative supporter despite Harper’s missteps which, to be frank, I cannot fathom. I am disappointed with him but I will not vote, as I have said many times, for a party which has Iggy and Rae as senior members. And I will NEVER vote NDP.
I do not use the Lib’s past errors or misdeeds as an excuse for the Conservatives’ moves of the same ilk. I am pointing out, however, that the Libs are not 100% lily-white and the Conservatives are not 100% coal-black.
Thanks for diplomatically pointing out what is, in my view, a deficiency on my part to make myself and my intentions perfectly clear. I will put some effort into improving how I deliver my message.
I will also say that your posts are more thoughtful than mine. I also admire how respectful and well-mannered you are on this blog.
Thanks.
What I find scarry is PMSH buddy Bush and his insane sheepel, still has
4 more mouths to start WW3!
I hope Not, but….
Who have the most WMD?
Who have been shown to break the law and lie, so are criminals & not ethical, some might say ‘insane’?
Think about it!
Why are people still talking about looking for Bin Layed. He is aready dead!
(His network may still be around?
Are we seen as invaders in Afganastan
by the tribal people?)
Benazir Bhutto: “Bin Laden was Murdered”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLItJMVNleY
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/osama_dead.html?q=osama_dead.html
Now, if he had campaigned on getting rid of the Separate system in favour of one public education system, he would have had my support.
By Ed Brooks on 08.28.08 12:30 pm
As I understand it Ed, it was an entrenched right won by French Canada at the time of Confederation but I am no expert on the legality of it. I see no reason why there can not be one system for all. Splitting various groups only leads to what we have on here. That is why I am so pro independent government. I could be excommunicated for such a stance!!!
As to Obama coming to Canada…I do not think he will have time, but there are over one million former Americans who have immigrated here and they can still vote if they have their citizenship.
Back to revising our new abode. LOL
By Bill-Muskoka (not anymore) on 08.28.08 10:38 am
You are right about the time factor, but if and when he does make a visit to Canada remember that he has some close family members who married Canadian and reside in Canada! Also Chicago is much closer than Crawford is to Canada in more ways than just geographic distance!
Garth is not infallible, and catches what he can on this blog. Read nothing into occasional omissions. — Garth
Thank you for the assurance.
“As for voting Liberal, get rid of Iggy and Rae and then I’ll consider it, but not before that. I’m just wondering when one of them will make the move to depose Dion. As I have said in an earlier post or two, I don’t envy Dion at all. He’s a nice guy with two snakes on either side of him.”
By East of…
Perhaps you could enlighten us on how Mr. Rae and Mr. Iggy are snakes?
this election will be fought in Quebec and Atlantic canada. The West is hopelessly ahered to the Cons, even at the expense of income trusts, etc., Ontario will probably see no huge gains but Quebec is the battleground. And if Harper called the elction, his data suggests he can make gains there, no doubt about it. Be worried, be very worried.
By jack on 08.28.08 11:27 am
Jack
Actually, people west of Thunder Bay are not hopeless – just more volatile except for Alberta voters. I do agree that Quebec is the uphill battle as M. Dion is disliked because of the Clarity Act. He, Ignatieff, Rae and Dryden should spend most of their campaigning there as a team and many visits to Atlantic Canada & Ontario.
However, do not write off BC. I am pretty sure the Liberals have written off my riding and I think it’s a mistake. Gary Lunn’s riding could be won with the Green Shift. Don’t forget the forestry industry has been devastated – we need to siphon off NDP voters on the island and interior. Did I mention I am not a member of any party but I am ready to go. The most interesting riding is where David Emerson ends up. The guy who did not even bother to cross the floor but just the road to Rideau Hall is not respected.
We don’t know Mr. Harper’s internal polls but I think he is counting on a three way split to run up the middle in Quebec. With Mulcair, the NDP is on the radar there. (Although I think M. Mulcair is campaigning for Jack’s job – he reads opportunist to me.)
In this election every riding counts.
By Greg W., Oakville on 08.28.08 12:10 pm
I believe Caledon is Michael Chong territory, if so, he is a good man, and I would not be so quick to dismiss him. When I wrote MPs in Ottawa regarding the disconnect between the cost of living and the indexing received on our pensions, he was the only one who called me on the phone to discuss the issue.
By wjp on 08.28.08 1:05 pm.
Nah. Just exercising my right to an opinion.
By Brian Wilson on 08.28.08 12:38 pm
Thank you for your response.
For what it is worth, my attitude is the same as your as it relates to the Liberal Party. I would also ‘probably’ never vote Liberal, although this time I will likely rationalize my way around that. It’s easy enough to do:
When casting your vote you really have a choice as to what you are voting for, the Party, the person who will be PM, or the candidate. When you agree with all three, the choice is easy.
In my case, I will vote for the candidate, regardless of the party or the leader. I believe that Garth, even though he is fallible (as he admitted today), brings value to the table as an MP. Frankly, he ticks enough people off, that I want him there stirring things up.
I hope you are in a riding that offers you similar opportunities.
By the way, I haven’t closed the book on M.Dion yet. Harper’s initial reviews were not good, and I think most leaders need to grow in to the role.
I think the personal attacks against him are a damn shame.
Regarding Arts & Culture cuts…
“The government says a review of its programs concluded that the programs it cut were inefficient. It has refused to make public the reviews.”
What a surprise that the accountable and transparent government of Mr. Harper has once again denied the public accountability on its’ cuts…
The full article is in the Ottawa Citizen today…
By wjp on 08.28.08 1:00 pm
It is indeed entrenched in our founding documents. But that doesn’t mean that it isn’t a Rights issue.
I believe this has also been mentioned in the United Nations, has it not?
Just out of curiousity, have any polls been conducted to see how many, if any, Progressive Conservatives who made the leap of faith to the Conservative Party are happy with where they landed?
By Ed Brooks on 08.28.08 11:55 am
I wonder if Harper’s new Northern vision and his announcement of a new ice breaker called the John Diefenbaker is a ploy to try to appeal to former Progressive Conservatives?
Since I was a party member who still has close ties with those PCs who accepted the new party and Harper’s leadership, I know that many of them are unhappy. It will be interesting to see how many will volunteer to work in the next election. I was never a “right wing” PC and many other PCs were not ideologically right wing. I don’t believe that uniting the right captured the government for Harper and his followers. It did help fill the party coffers but that alone is not sufficient to elect a government.
I believe it was disgruntled Liberals, who wanted to punish the Liberal Party, that helped elect the Harper government.
Even if they work in the election for the Conservatives there is no guarantee that they will vote Conservative because their loyalty is more to the Conservative name than the leadership.
Many of the party activists that I know have become card carrying Liberals over the past few months. Once that happens, these people are generally lost for the Conservative Party for good.
Could it have been because following the demise of the Kim Campbell the right broke into the PC’s and the Reformers?
A couple of years ago I downloaded the election results to figure that out. I re-cast the results to combine the Reform/PC totals to see what the standings would be if only the Tories represented the right.
I should see if I still have that….
WJP 10:52am
“Canadians do not vote parties in but out”
This is one of the problems Bill-M(na) and others have pointed out which is at the core of our disfunctional country. No country can survive if the only way a party can retain power is if they have an election during a period of few scandels and economic stability. That country dies because like a ship without a rudder they are directionless until they eventually crash into something solid.
The state of Canada today is similar to that faced by Germany and Japan after WWII and communist China at the time of Mao’s death. An economy based on agriculture and resource extraction with few functioning industries. In each case it took 1 generation or 25 years to become an economic powerhouse. China did a 180 degree turn politically to become the words largest, most powerful fascist state we have ever seen. Germany and Japan while taking different paths were well on their way by 1970 to eclipsing even the U.S. economically. Unfortunately they lost their vision and have gone down to our pitiful level where scandels are more important than policy. China is just starting to deal with high inflation as a result of too fast expansion and an emerging desire by its population for what they see the rest of the world having as well as new international responsibilities and the inability to hide behind third world status anymore. It will be interesting to see how these forces affect their vision of the future.
It is ironic that the only useful piece of legislation Harper has passed in three years is his first – the badly flawed accountability act. The most important line in that legislation was the one stating that all appointments to the civil service and hopefully judges (I can’t remember) were to be chosen by an all party commitee rather than the PMO. If the overall legislation was re-written to include real whistle blower protection and a requirement for department heads to provide public monthly reports on changes in their departments (exposing the types of changes Harper loves like the food inspector fiasco) then we would have a national visionary policy.
This started as one of Harpers visons of change but any party that makes it a vision of their own and reality if elected will provide the type of leadership Canada needs to move forward. Not only do we need to get rid of our unbalanced leader but we need to reduce the power of the PMO to dictate change by byassing parliament in the future. This is just one type of vision along with the usual economic ones that can propel a nation to greatness but it takes this type of vision on all parties parts to make that push for greatness a reality.
The U.S. is a living example of how easy it is to tear down and how hard it is to rebuild or build something better for our future.
Globe & mail editorial calls Harper’s election call “Maunufactering a Crisis”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080828.weeelection0828/BNStory/specialComment/home
***I’ll just goddamned well bet, you snivelling, cowardly, bastard!
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 08.28.08 10:37 am
I would say this is byond the decorum of the new rules.
I’m one of the ex-PC voters who won’t vote for Harper. Heck, I even voted Reform once. To me government should only be involved where they need to be (education, health care, security, infrastructure, probably a few others too). Taxes should be fair and based on two principles – ability to pay (useless to tax someone making $10k a year) and to discourage negative social behavior. Politicians should do what they say and say what they’ll do – thus I voted for Harris but would never, ever vote for Harper.
The Green Shift was an idea I loved when I first heard of it through the Green Party (thus where I voted last provincial election). However, the Liberals have trouble getting my trust (I remember the promise to remove the GST, among other things that never happened). I live in Michael Chong’s riding and hate that I cannot vote for him as he seems like a principled MP but as long as he is running for Harper he will be so limited that he cannot be effective. Right now I’m parking my vote in the Green bucket (NDP is not a consideration) and looking close at Liberals but it would take a heck of a lot to make me trust that Dion and crew will do what they say they will.
FYI: the only wasted vote is a vote for someone you don’t believe in. Would the Green Shift be a consideration if the Green’s didn’t poll between 6% and 12%? I doubt it.
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 12:44 pm
Thank you.
I have enjoyed reading your posts, although I don’t quite understand the ambivalent nature to your support of the Harper government. After all, it is not the Progressive Conservative party anymore.
As you must be aware, I have no allegiance or affinity to the Liberal Party, but the Liberal candidate in my riding is worthy of support.
You might say I am on the horns of a dilemma.
Perhaps it is in my delivery; I believe you have misunderstood me. I do not feign neutrality nor do I claim to be neutral; I have been very clear that I am, at the moment, a Conservative supporter despite Harper’s missteps which, to be frank, I cannot fathom. I am disappointed with him but I will not vote, as I have said many times, for a party which has Iggy and Rae as senior members. And I will NEVER vote NDP.
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 12:44 pm
While you may not “fathom his missteps” – by your voting for him, you silently condone his actions. Not only do you condone them, you encourage them, because you are rewarding his actions.
By slg on 08.28.08 12:31 pm
Can you post a link of Mr. CLements listeria jokes? Not that I would find them funny, but curious as to the nature of them and why he would joke about such a thing.
Kerry Busse,
If you don’t agree, don’t cut and paste the message. It’s politics, not everyone is going to agree.
Look, I think the destruction of the Liberal Party would be bad for Canada. That’s my bottom line.
As I said if you don’t agree, ignore it.
Daryn
I do not use the Lib’s past errors or misdeeds as an excuse for the Conservatives’ moves of the same ilk. I am pointing out, however, that the Libs are not 100% lily-white and the Conservatives are not 100% coal-black.
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 12:44 pm
I always had trouble pegging where you were placing your support, because you seem upset with the CPC and still questioning (and ask very valid questions) about the Liberals.
As a former PC myself, I will never support Harper, and after this week, after seeing Harper engineering an election for what really looks like a war of financial resources with the other parties (where we Canadians foot the bill) it is becoming clear Harper doesn’t want opposition parties, he wants the sand box to himself. Now he is doing this prefectly legally, but he is still abusing the system by doing it.
I could never vote for a Party lead by a man who takes the worst qualities of Harris and Rove and uses them a political method to achieve his means.
Just my two cents,
“Why will it hit the fan Oct 15th? . . .” — The Ogopogo, 11:48 pm
I may be wrong, but from what I know the publisher will release Ms. Couillard’s “tell-all” book around the same time, and the election will be over by then.
If that IS the case, then an early election is paramount for a supposedly “dysfunctional” Parliament, except it is not dysfunctional at all.
Simply put, an election is purely to distract people’s attention away from the real issues of everyday life, not the least of which are the continual lies perpetuated on Cdns.
I would expect the GG, with help from bloggers countrywide bombarding her with e-mails and snail mail, to state the obvious — Parliament is working fine, and a federal election is slated for Oct.’09 so live with it.
Adding to Canada’s current sorry saga is the continuing worldwide economic meltdown, in combination with increased military tensions, so one way or the other, people are already in one helluva rollercoaster ride, whether they know it or not.
Ms. Couillard’s book will be a real eye-opener, though.
Has anyone else noticed the big ad at the top of the National Newswatch page? I have just quickly checked it but I’m sure there is serious money behind it! A column Have your say which gives links to all local newspapers for people to write letters, a petition to sign. a tag that says “Tell a Liberal” and lots more that I haven’t viewed yet.More of this third party money being spent to bring down the Liberals. I haven’t seen anything or anyone, other than on this blog talking about the Conservative $65:00 a tonne tax. There was a small piece tucked inside an article about the oil executives yesterday and one of them stated that whichever plan was chosen, Liberal or Conservative, prices would increase on energy. Also I have just read in another blog that the Conference Board of Canada has come out saying that the Liberals were doing the right thing with the Green Shift! No confirmation but maybe some of these great posters on this blog could help us out? Thanks.
I validate my life through service to my community; making lives of other people just a little bit better. I build up, not tear down.
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 7:17 am
You also support an outright and proven Liar so how can anything that you say be listened to?????
Oh, and this is a liberal blog so if you don’t want to be “Slaged” go peddle yous opinions on a Con blog.
More lack of transparency…
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=a997ef8a-c6d9-4e7a-8b81-5a2f74a6ac96
Bonnie, yes, every riding counts for sure. But I see Layton now meeting with the Pm and a published strategy to hammer the Libs green Shift. You can bet there will be some deal making in that meeting. Duceppe will be uncooperative in his.
But the Libs have problems. Vote splitting is number 1. Second is that the Green Shift has not been explained well at all and no attempts have been made to have the CPC explain the massive costs and resulting “tax on everything” with their plan. I beleive the attack on a “tax” will be very effective and the Libs better have a darn good strategy to deal with it.
i would also like someone to get the PM to state if he actually believe in man-made global warming, because I don’t believe he does. I also believe that there is no intention to implement the key GHG reductgion portions of the Turn the Corner Plan, it is merely eye candy for swing voters.
Harper is a liar, an amateur and an arrogant bully. But he has money and he says all the right things that people like to hear, then later takes it all back. the question is will canadians fall for all the doublespeak again.
Also, the Libs have not stressed the derugulation of the inspection programs enough and the documents stating that industry will police themselves. It doesn’t matter how many more inspectors there are if industry is policing itself. In addition, it appears Clement made a totall crass remark at a high priced dinner party in denver last night and we hear nothing of it? If what i read is true, that should be seriously headlined as the remark he made would have any employee, manager, executive of ANY company immediately fired. But we hear nothing of it? Strange.
And finally, I will add that if the Libs can mobilize the voters the Cons have seriously snubbed: First Nations, Women, Income Trust investors, Youth, and the Arts community there is a good chance. But many of these people don’t vote.
man vs man
IMO, the HONEST & PASSIONATE MAN with a vision of the future will win the respect of Canadians and will win this election.
Right at this moment the fact is that Dion is, by far, that MAN.
Nah. Just exercising my right to an opinion.
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 1:13 pm
Good, I figured you had no reasonable explanation, thanks…
“We don’t know Mr. Harper’s internal polls but I think he is counting on a three way split to run up the middle in Quebec. With Mulcair, the NDP is on the radar there. (Although I think M. Mulcair is campaigning for Jack’s job – he reads opportunist to me.)
In this election every riding counts.
By Bonnie N BC on 08.28.08 1:08 pm”
Hi Bonnie…you are right on! EVERY riding counts!
There are at least 7 ridings in BC that could easily go Liberal or NDP in the next election if people voted strategically to get rid of the Harper Conservatives.
And, there are at least 7 seats in the prairies that could be lost by the Conservatives….and that’s if we make the assumption that the popular vote stays as it was in 2006. Any erosion from 36% national support by the Conservatives will put more of their seats in jeopardy.
In Alberta strategic voting could affect at least two ridings:
Edmonton/Strathcona could go NDP
Edmonton Central could go Liberal
In BC here’s a summary of the 7 ridings most likely to fall out of Conservative hands if strategic voting was used:
Fleetwood/Port Kells could go Liberal
Kamloops/Thompson/Cariboo could go NDP
Nanaimo/Alberni could go NDP
Okanogan/Shushap go go Liberal
Pitt Meadows/Maplewood/Mission could go NDP
Port Moody/Westwood/Port Coquitlam could go Liberal
Saanich/Gulf Islands could go Liberal
If Conservative support in BC falls from the 37.3% in the 2006 election more Conservative seats could be at risk.
In Saskatchewan strategic voting could impact a few ridings as well:
Desnethe/Churchill River could go Liberal
Pallister could go NDP
Regina/Qu’Appelle could go NDP
Regina/Lumsdem/Lake Centre could go NDP
A drop in Conservative support from the 49% in the 2006 election would put more Conservative seats at risk.
In Manitoba a couple of ridings could leave Conservative hands with strategic voting:
Kidonan/St. Paul could go Liberal
Winnipeg South could go Liberal
A drop in Conservative support below the 43.7% obtained in 2006 would put more Conservative seats at risk.
I will have the Ontario, Quebec and Maritime reports finished this weekend. Based on preliminary work a high number of Conservative seats are very vulnerable to strategic voting in Ontario and in the Maritimes. Some of the gains in Quebec could be erased with strategic voting in Quebec. It is very difficult to see any real breakthrough by the Conservatives since it appears that at least 70% to 75% of Bloc seats are very safe.
I’ll have a better idea once I finish the reports….again – they will be available this weekend.
I have been responding to all emails sent to me. If you have not seen your reply I suggest you check your spam or junk mail folders. Many fire walls will automatically dump yahoo emails into those folders.
TS
strategicvoting@yahoo.ca
For more information on how you can help defeat the Harper Conservatives by casting your ballot on a strategic basis email me at strategicvoting@yahoo.ca and indicate whether you want a BC, Prairie, Ontario, Quebec or Maritime riding assessment.
Precedent is to be found in British Commons and earlier Canadian parliamentary practice. If a PM can’t win support for himself or his cabinet in a divided House,he goes to the governor general, surrenders parliament and the GG asks someone else in the house to attempt to form a cabinet-ie. government. Harper can’t break his own four year term law without turning his law and order mask inside out, but he desperately needs to drop a general election writ so he can shut down the Green Party in Guelph, who along with the electorate in this city are about to humiliate his acolyte Gloria Kovach. Harper knows the Reform Party started with a by-election win followed by 52 seats in the general election that followed that win. He’s afraid his Oil and Eastern banker-backed Regressive Conservative Republicans will become as fossilized as their fuel source once he stands onstage against Elizabeth May, Dion, Layton and the Bloc in a televised debate, he’ll look lke the Bush League dogsbody he is. He thinks that by dropping the writ and breaking the new law the by-election will have to be extended to a date beyond the length of Green purse strings. Most Canadians voted against Harper and his right to form a government in the last election. He made the law, old parliamentary practice will ensure the continuity of the elected House. Harper should resign, now.
I believe this has also been mentioned in the United Nations, has it not?
By Ed Brooks on 08.28.08 1:23 pm
I don’t have the answer for that but I am pretty sure it will not be an issue the next time around, I was glad to see John stay on and I think he can put this behind him and make a real challenge the next time around. Despite all the hoopla on here about Ontario being Liberal, I really don’t think that translates into Provincial politics, I think the majority Ontarians are P.C.s and not the Harris type but the John Tory or Bill Davis type (the guy who put the full funding in for the Catholic Board)…I look forward to the next provincial election…a lot more than I do a federal one…
Hey Garth,
Harper gave you the election on a silver platter this afternoon:
http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=753822
You should seize on these silly comments and turn them into a campaign theme:
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2008/08/28/linamar-layoffs.html
Don’t worry folks, you’re only ‘technically’ laid-off, not really laid-off.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2008/08/28/calgary-zoom.html
Zoom you’re only ‘technically’ bankrupt, not really bankrupt.
“Tories are saying that Harper is not breaking the law because this is a minority Parliament — That is a wonderful and imaginative theory, but that is not what the government’s own House Leader and Minister of Democratic Reform (Rob Nicholson) said during the debate on the bill:”
“I believe all parties share the view that elections belong fundamentally to citizens. They belong to the people. All parties agree with the principle that the timing of elections should not be left to the Prime Minister, but should be set in advance so all Canadians know when the next election will occur.
I will begin with the description of the current process for calling general elections and I will discuss some of the difficulties associated with it. This will be followed by a discussion of the many advantages associated with fixed date elections. Finally, I will be very pleased to present the specifics of Bill C-16.
Currently, it is the prerogative of the Prime Minister, whose government has not lost the confidence of the House of Commons, to determine what he or she regards as a propitious time for an election to renew the government’s mandate. The Prime Minister then requests dissolution of the House from the Queen’s representative and if the Governor General agrees, he or she proclaims the date of the election.
What we have is a situation where the Prime Minister is able to choose the date of the general election, not based necessarily on what is in the best interests of the country, but what is in the best interests of his or her political party. Bill C-16 would address this problem and would produce a number of other benefits.
That sounds familiar. Has the PM lost the confidence of the House? Nope.”
Quotes from, and full item at:
http://bowjamesbow.ca/2008/08/25/sorry-guys-if-h.shtml
“I’m Health Minister Tony Clement, and I have to say I approved this food.”
http://impolitical.blogspot.com/
Sorry Garth but only a jackass could make such a statement.
By tricia on 08.28.08 1:52 pm
Trish, I wouldn’t be too concerned about the comparison about the two plans, once the writ is dropped someone in the media will do it for sure….problem is, not the comparison, but getting anyone to believe it. If it comes from certain publications, they will be deemed to be bias either way.
Hard core voters have already decided, the swing voters will decide, and the majority will stay home.
What a joke! The latest ‘pre-campaign’ is trying to portray a “kinder, gentler” Harper. This is right out the Lil Bush’s playbook.
By TS on 08.28.08 2:46 pm
Hi TS
Okay my thought is West Vancouver, Sunshine Coast Howe Sound will go Conservative because we do not have a Liberal candidate. This is why I think Liberals wrote my riding off.
Blair Wilson (used to be Liberal) Independent was on the wrong side of Elections Canada law. (He’s a bit of an airhead so he has zero chance of being elected).
This is the home of the Green Party (SC) but West Vancouver demographics negates their electability.
BY WJP ON 08.28.08 2:45 PM.
I did not say that I had no explanation, “Nah” signified that I would not give my explanation. I know when I’m being baited, WJP, and I will not involve myself in the games you keep trying to play with me. I suggest you look for another target.
BY A.R.WAINWRIGHT ON 08.28.08 1:59 PM
Funny how a Con respects Garth’s request for civility but you don’t. Interesting.
BY TIM N ON 08.28.08 1:40 PM
Not quite. I did not categorically say I’d vote for the CPC. I was clear on which party would not get my vote, however.
BY ED BROOKS ON 08.28.08 1:37 PM
So am I, Ed. I never thought it would come to the stage where I would only know for which party I would NOT vote.
BY ZORPHEOUS ON 08.28.08 1:49 PM
As always, your post is thoughtful and logical. Like Ed, I am on the horns of a dilemma. I will make a few of things very clear. Stephen Harper has disappointed me in many ways but, having said that, I am very happy with the GST reduction which should have happened 13 years ago as promised. I am very impressed with Stéphane Dion and would vote Liberal if Iggy and Rae were not up there at his side. I have been very clear about that. I do not like nor do I trust either one of them. I will not vote NDP because I have lived under two different provincial NDP governments and it wasn’t pretty. The Green Party is too new and although Elizabeth May is an accomplished and strong person, there is something about her that I just do not trust. I cannot explain it but my gut tells me that she is not what she appears to be. I could be wrong but I have learned to go with my gut feeling.
I do not want an election this year and I do want to wait until 2009. I have been quite vocal with my MP and the PM about this issue. I have not received any replies but, then again, political replies are never meaningful, anyway. I support the CPC but not necessarily the leader. I know it sounds strange, but that is the inherent problem with party politics. I’ve said it before: I’d like to see 20% of our MPs to be independents. I hope that makes the mud a little more clear.
I hate elections. They plug up the airwaves during critical times in my day when I am otherwise receiving valuable shopping advice.
BY WJP ON 08.28.08 2:45 PM.
I did not say that I had no explanation, “Nah” signified that I would not give my explanation. I know when I’m being baited, WJP, and I will not involve myself in the games you keep trying to play with me. I suggest you look for another target.
Poor East of Eden…
If the Liberals lose even a handful of seats, Flanagan predicted they’ll immediately dump Leader Stephane Dion, a forecast echoed privately by plenty of Grits. The party would have to embark on a costly leadership campaign before most contenders from the last contest, including Dion, have paid off their leadership debts.
Moreover, a reduction in popular vote would mean the already cash-strapped Liberal party would get less money in election expenses rebates and in its annual public subsidy. Flanagan said that could make it difficult for the Liberals to pay off any debts from the coming election campaign and harder to secure bank loans for a future campaign.
Hence, he concluded, another Tory minority “would be enough to throw the Liberals into turmoil and give Harper . . . a virtually free hand in Parliament for quite a while and really handicap his main opponent.” – Tom Flanagan on CTV
Full story:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080827/Harperstrategy_080827/20080827?hub=Politics
Now, Tom, what happens in the CPC when, even with the Libs on the ropes as youy perceive it, Harper fails to meet his promise a second time to deliver a CPC majority?
Canadians must be told we are the underdogs in this up and coming American NeoCon election, and that these people are ruthless and have no respect for true democracy….ultimate power and big business is the name of the game. The plan was put into effect many years ago and they will never surrender until they have ulimate control of the worlds vita resources.
Note:
The system of institutions is still grander and more computerized, but it seems to have lost its morale. The baronial corporations are making immense amounts of money and are more openly and heavily subsidized by the monarch in Washington. The processing of the young is extended for longer years and its tempo speeded up. More capital and management are exported, interlocking within international capital and more of the world (including Canada) is brought under American control. When necessary, remarkable military technology is brought to bear. At home, there is no political check, for no matter what the currents of opinion, by and large the dominant system wreaks its will, managing the parliamentary machinery to look like consensus.
Paul Goodman, The Empty Society, Massy Lectures 1966!
Think Bush and Chaney having won or better still convinced the public they won told the American people they have full rights to do as they please and on numerous occasions defied their own laws and here in Canada Mr. Stephen Harper conned Canadians into a minority even telling them no to worry that the Liberal Senate would keep him in check and then he did the same. All this with our toothless MSM who are now on their hands and knees begging for a chance to ask a vetted question. Perhaps it is too late but I would like to think not. The future of Canada is in gthe hands of two people Jack Layton and Gill Doucette. They were the first to fall for the trap throwing Paul Martin out (Over Gomery which soon fell off the radar) and they very well may be ones to sink Canada to a depth that it may not be able to recover as our once proud world respect for being a kind and gentle nation disappears via Harper’s Winds of War.
Of course the people don’t want war…that is understood. But voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. — Hermann Goering
Garth
Who care’s about Julie’s book? Here’s the real election hammer…
Well, Mr. Harper hinted his party will follow THEIR interpretation of elections law in the next campaign. If so, then Mr. Harper never intended to follow advertising limits and will try to buy another election spending what he wants and “screw” Elections Canada.
Ladies and gentlemen we cannot allow this to happen. We must have a fair playing field for all parties during the election.
Talk about tyranny of the majority; this is the tyranny of one man trying to subvert the election process.
This is outrageous and a full attack on our rights as Canadians. When the government of Canada attacks the fundamental pillar of our democracy we are in big trouble.
If Mr. Harper acts on his musing he should be removed from office.
And that’s my rant for the day…
By TS on 08.28.08 2:46 pm
Do you really think a Liberal candidate can unseat James Moore? Last election ex Coquitlam Mayor Jon Kingsbury ran as a Liberal and failed. Can’t get a better candidate then him with name recognition. He missed being re-elected as mayor by 52 votes in Nov.05 and was quickly acclaimed as the Liberal candidate. The area provincially is a N.D.P. strong hold for most of the riding, so having Port Moody-Westwood turn Liberal would be an illusion in my opinion.
I think Harper is a real snake and I have an explanation as to why…unlike the smear than East laid on Rae & Iggy, while at the same time claiming the high road in forum decorum…
1.)Breaking the intent of his own election fixed date law…
2) Breaking his promise on Income Trusts…
3) Breaking his promise on the Atlantic Accord…
Now I am very fond of Bob Rae, I think he got a real bad rap in Ontario. First of all, it was one of those elections where the party in power was thrown out, and the NDP did not have any experienced MPPs to serve in the government, much like the federal CPC party. When the recessionary times hit, Bob tried to buy Ontario out of the recession but it was deeper than they had anticipated. It takes a big man to admit his mistake and it cost him big time to reverse his decision, to establish Rae days, and to go against the NDP base which had put him in power.
I have always admired his honesty.
What if Harper’s wrong about everything and this campaign backfires. After 2.5 years he has done nothing but manipulate, lie, deceive, and control the political agenda.
What if Canadians somehow upon taking a good look at the options realize that Dion isn’t as bad as they’ve been hearing – and question the governing party and find that the CPC are either incompetent, untrustworthy, or both.
Imagine if the early polls out of the election start to show momentum for the Liberals and it builds into a surge propelling Dion to the office of Prime Minister with a healthy majority. It could happen. Although it seems some are willing to claim that there is zero percent chance of that happening I would have to disagree.
Who knows what will happen, although the thought of another Harper government saddens me deeply. I am truly curious to see how this will all play out. Here’s hoping Liberals are ready and excited for this election.
I wonder if Harper’s new Northern vision and his announcement of a new ice breaker called the John Diefenbaker is a ploy to try to appeal to former Progressive Conservatives?
By Zorpheous on 08.28.08 1:49 pm
I totally agree with you as I thought the same thing when I read it. Given Harper drove all the way to London for a 71 second photo op, I trust him as far as I could throw him. NO TRUST
………………………
man vs man
IMO, the HONEST & PASSIONATE MAN with a vision of the future will win the respect of Canadians and will win this election.
Right at this moment the fact is that Dion is, by far, that MAN.
By Ron p on 08.28.08 2:20 pm
Right on Ron. I saw, heard and experienced Stephane Dion in the front row at the Halton Town Hall where I could watch his every move and hear nuance of his words. His vision is a greener, fairer and richer Canada and he is passionate about that.
What a fine Prime Minister he will be for Canada. A statesman and a man who will bring a great governance to Canada the likes of which we have never seen before. Canada will rise to a higher position in the world under Dion as our citizens become healthier and wealthier as we begin to live the Green SHift right through a struggling economy at the moment. He is the kind of leader Canada needs.
CBC says “poverty kills” and right now Canada doesn’t have the best standing in the world.
I’m seeing shades of the Harper Handbook Tactics used against good people here, more and more. Is that what we call fairness?
While our CPC government stays in the denial mode and has no focus on energy options, our neighbors to the south are…:
US Electric Grid Not Keeping Up With Renewable Energy Growth
by Matthew McDermott, Brooklyn, NY on 08.27.08
Science & Technology (alternative energy)
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/08/united-states-electric-grid-not-ready-for-big-renewable-energy-growth.php
Without a comprehensive plan, that could start with the Green Shift, Canada is quickly falling behind on these new, growing, and job creating technologies.
Time for change is here, and we need a government willing to invest and grow these new high-tech industries.
But, the CPC seems to want us to remain roughnecks, miners, and burger flippers.
THAT, is total lack of vision. The Yanks must be laughing at their puppet Harper – all the way to the bank.
Funny how some gut feelings are better than others, yesterday there was quite a discussion on instincts etc….yet today someone has a gut feeling and that is supposed to lend credence to his argument..wait until Lawrence gets a hold of this one…LMAO….
I quite often read in this blog about Canada’s relationship with China and that it should be more positive… Well, considering China’s track record in human rights, environment, quality of products, etc. I wonder if people actually are informed about China and it’s government. I strongly believe that ANY country should not trade with China. A very enlightening read is: Peter Navarro’s ‘The Coming China Wars’ and has nothing to do with wars, but with China internally (and, at times, internationally). I guess business and corporate greeds knows no bound!
Meh. Painless solutions don’t exist. It’s a test between Orange and Red for me, I don’t even consider the Cons. I think you all might want to change your strategy.
BY MOLLY ON 08.27.08 11:21 PM
A lot of us little people aren’t looking at the Cons. Harper talks, blah-de-blah, hard to take someone like him seriously. He’s made some really bad choices and caused so much embarrassment. I think most people have tuned him out, I know I have.
As for another Carthage for all Liberals goal?
Karl Marx said it best,”History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.”
History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce. –Karl Marx
A commenter “Reframed” something on the last thread and his or her implication introduces an Obama smear. Since he or she implicates me in it, I don’t know what the blogger was trying to do to my 7:36PM vs their 1:01AM
Chalk it up to life with Harpo tactics.
And if you want fair elections, let’s hope his Bush Wing Commander is held fully accountable for 2004 vote fraud and tampered electronic voting:
public voting on private servers:
http://tinyurl.com/2wddwg
..I think Harper may be, in effect, committing political suicide. GOOD!
BY BILL-MUSKOKA (NOT ANYMORE) 08.28.08 7:44AM
Bill, I soooo agree with you. And I hope Canadians act like Canadians and vote the despot out, any which way we can.
Are we in a recession?
More Harper double speak.
http://www.bnn.ca/news/3091.html
I’d love to sit here and pretend like a removal of the Con government is imminent, but in the last 8 years, I’ve been sorely disappointed in the voting paterns of people in North America. Keep in mind, Bush managed to stay in power for 8 years, and Harper for 3 (with a minority mind you). I’ve come to expect the worst in the Canadian electorate.
I’ve always been a dipper, but this time I’m voting Lib because of my intense fear of a Conservative majority. I just don’t trust the Canadian people to pull their heads out of their asres long enough to not be blinded by attack adds and slogans.
God help us all.
EASTOFEDEN 08.28.08 3:19 PM
People have to size each other up, it takes time.
In the gist of what you say, you condemn Harper and you like Dion, but you won’t move off the fence because of Iggy and Rae, and you like the GST cut. Sorry to simplify your statement.. but space short..
If I may say, the leader matters, especially with this election.
The split of the right of centre vote has been mentioned. I looked up my analysis of the results.
Official Results
Liberal: 177
PC: 2
BQ: 54
Reform: 52
NDP: 9
Other: 1
If you combine the right of centre results, the out come would have been:
Liberal: 134
PC/Reform: 101
BQ: 54
NDP: 5
Other: 1
The impact in Ontario was devastating for the PC party. The Liberals took 98 of 99 seats. If the Right was united, the Liberals would have won 74, with 25 going to the Tories.
Under these circumstances, it would have been a minority Liberal government.
i’m not sure that the conservatives can destroy the liberals. There aren’t enough angry people in canada to do that.
harper has a trick up his sleeve, for sure, but it won’t be enough to convince canadians to give him a majority. Hwo knows, there might even be an intervening issue or two, that if played right, can be used to win the liberals a minority.
i trust canadians to do the right thing. Most of us are sophisticated, critical thinkers who can smell bs a mile away. something just needs to motivate us…
Sorry but in my hurry in my last post I didn’t say that the Ad on the National Newswatch page was asking paople to sign a petition to Stop the Carbon Tax! I also found the relevant article in today’s National Post. Glen Hodgson, the chief economist of the Conference Board of Canada was talking about broad business tax reform “,,, give companies a competitive advantage in global competition, and encourage investment in leading-edge environmental technologies.
The reforms should include the introduction of controversial carbon taxes along the lines of what British Columbia has already introduced and what federal opposition Liberals have proposed, which would not only help reduce greenhouse gases but would provide additional revenues to cover the costs of accelerating tax cuts in other areas, such as corporate income taxes, Mr. Hodgson said in an interview.
“The easiest way to do it, frankly, is by putting a tax on fuel related to the amount of CO2 produced by a litre of gasoline or heating fuel in the home….”Green taxes are coming, it’s only a question when,” he said”
Now is Mr. Harper going to start ranting about the Conference Board of Canada being “crazy” or “wanting to screw everybody” or will he admit that he just doesn’t get it! I also read somewhere that the oil executives were not too crazy about the Conservatives plan to Jail people who didn’t meet the government’s requirements on cutting CO2 emissions. Can you imagine the CEO of Suncor or Petro Canada having to serve jail time – NOT
…sorry, forgot to mention that was for the 1993 election.
A good example of how bad it was, the Halton-Peel riding. The Liberals won the riding with just over 22,000 votes. The combined PC/Reform vote for the riding was over 35,000.
In 1988 Garth beat the Liberal candidate by 12,000 votes. In 1993 he lost the riding to the Liberals by 4,000 votes. The Reform candidate placed third with 16,826 votes.
How did you feel that night, Garth?
oh, and it’s not so irrealistic to think that obama might come to Canada to speak to canadians in the next five weeks. someone should just ask him.
hope ur all gonna be watching his acceptance speech, tonight…
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 3:19 pm
It’s great to have the exta $0.02 in my pocket, but damn, I wish that they would have invested it in infrastructure instead.
My quality of life has gone way downhill in the last 5 years for lack of a decent transportation system.
Now, if he had campaigned on getting rid of the Separate system in favour of one public education system, he would have had my support.
By Ed Brooks on 08.28.08 12:30 pm
Mine too. There should be separation of religion and politics, and religion and education.
INUVIK, Northwest Territories — Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who is expected to call an election as early as next week, did not rule out the possibility the Canadian economy might have slipped into recession but said Thursday that if so it would only be in a technical sense.
INUVIK, Northwest Territories — Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who is expected to call an election as early as next week, did not rule out the possibility the Canadian economy might have slipped into recession but said Thursday that if so it would only be in a technical sense.
Ya. As in, “technicaly” your sort of pregnant.
My God now they are pumping out ads paying people to go on the air praising the 2nd coming of Steven Harper. Jeez people wake up and get rid of this arrogant conceited little man. He needs a swift kick you know where.
Linamar, the second largest auto parts maker in Canada announces 800 job cuts….
http://finance.sympatico.msn.ca/investing/news/businessnews/article.aspx?cp-documentid=9806062
And now he has the very real possibility of having the tainted meat issue play against his gov’t as well. There is no better feeling that watching a bully get his comeuppance.
Harper is angry. He has that defiant aire about him at the moment. He will cower. It won’t be long. I can sense it.
I’ll bet the next polling that comes out will push the Liberals up a bit more. I can sense the way people are feeling and their mood. How do I know? I always sense the change.
Hi Bonnie,
thanks for the insights on your local riding. Since I am not familiar with your local situation all I can do is identify potentially vulnerable Conservative seats based on 2006 election data and riding history, with the assumption that there are Liberal and NDP candidates in place and that there is no unusual local situation.
Your riding was a close one in 2006 with the Liberal candidate winning by a margin of less than 1,000 votes and capturing 37.5% of the vote, compared to the Conservative who had 36% of the vote. NDP were third with 20.1% of the vote.
Hopefully the Liberals will soon announce a local candidate! If there is a local Liberal candidate your riding could use some strategic NDP votes to ensure a Conservative loss. Your assessment that the NDP have little chance of winning appears to be right on the money.
I cannot believe this news!!!!
Spending OUR money and then naming a new icebreaker after the PM who destroyed Canada’s rightful place in the world aerospace arena.
Icebreaker named after Diefenbaker
That is the LAST damn iunsult this insane moron should be allowed to perpetrate on Canadians.
Caesar Disgustus reveals he has not yet reached the bottom of the barrel when it comes to scum sucking actions.
By Barb the proofreader on 08.28.08 2:53 pm
Barb, as usual your posting is well written and well documented. Thank you for your excellent posting regarding the Conservatives’ own comments about their ‘fixed date election’ legislation.
It would be great if there were video clips of these comments that could be used to highlight this example (one of MANY) of the hypocrisy of the Harper Conservatives.
BY A.R.WAINWRIGHT ON 08.28.08 1:59 PM
Funny how a Con respects Garth’s request for civility but you don’t. Interesting.
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 3:19 pm
Funny, I went back and re-read my post.
There is absolutely nothing that is not the truth in what I said.
Steven Harper is a liar.
You support a liar.
That is truth.
It is stated in a factual and clear manor.
My opinion of you has not changed after reading your last post.
In my many years of service in the Air Force I was B.Sed by the best and you are not one of them. You lead in circles and say NOTHING that is not to be construed as criticism of M.Dion and company.
I support the CPC
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 3:19 pm
That I believe.
“Also I have just read in another blog that the Conference Board of Canada has come out saying that the Liberals were doing the right thing with the Green Shift! No confirmation but maybe some of these great posters on this blog could help us out? Thanks.
By tricia on 08.28.08 1:52 pm”
Hi Tricia…. here is some confirmation of the stance of the Conference Board of Canada….
“The Conference Board of Canada stated back in January that “the time has come to put a price on CO2 and other emissions,” and recommended implementing both a carbon tax and a cap-and-trade system. Researchers at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington argue a carbon tax is actually superior to emissions trading since not only will a tax encourage business and consumers to reduce energy consumption, it eliminates the risk of corruption and price volatility associated with trading. A tax can also be adjusted relatively easily if found to be too low or too high; not so with the price of carbon permits in an open market.
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/columnists/joe_castaldo/article.jsp?content=20080624_154546_5272
And, here is actual material from the Conference Board of Canada web site:
“Carbon taxation is less politically appealing than cap and trade systems, but may offer a more durable approach since it provides better price certainty for businesses and consumers over the long term. Ultimately we expect a combination of carbon taxes in various forms, cap and trade systems, specific regulatory intervention, and incentives for new technologies to form the policy framework for reducing CO2 emissions.”
The entire piece can be found here:
http://www.conferenceboard.ca/press/2007/OpEds/Climate.asp
TS
strategicvoting@yahoo.ca
For more information on how you can help defeat the Harper Conservatives by casting your ballot on a strategic basis email me at strategicvoting@yahoo.ca and indicate whether you want a BC, Prairie, Ontario, Quebec or Maritime riding assessment.
I am so looking forward to this election. We live in exciting times.
What a joke! The latest ‘pre-campaign’ is trying to portray a “kinder, gentler” Harper. This is right out the Lil Bush’s playbook.
By TS on 08.28.08 3:04 pm
If Harper goes negative, he is criticized. If he goes positive he is criticized. You can’t have it both ways.
If Harper goes negative, he is critis
What the Democrats can learn from Republicans
Updated Wed. Aug. 27 2008 7:06 PM ET
CTV.ca News
The Republicans have held the White House for 28 of the last 40 years. While there are many reasons for their success, it has a lot to do with forgiving and forgetting once a nominee is chosen.
Maybe what we need is Bob R and Ignatieff to make some rousing speeches in favor of Dion and let their leadership aspirations be on hold for a few years for the greater good.
I think Bob Rae is really a very decent man (only a decent man would bare his ass for TV :>)although I don’t like his ties to big business and Ignatieff had a lot of arrogance in my mind to just come back to Canada after many years and want to be leader of the Liberal Party. He was also in favor of the Iraq war which pushes me away. However he is intelligent, many people value him, he has been contributing to our country and could be a great asset.
Maybe we need to put something in the ads like
I prefer a positive and hopeful attitude over negativity and fear.
I vote Liberal. or
If you prefer a positive and hopeful attitude over fear, vote LIBERAL.
I find it hard to believe any Canadian would want to have Harper and his party with such a negative attitude as Primie Minister. I sure don’t.
Harper apparently doesn’t mind spending our 399 million dollars on an election just to destroy the Liberals. Funny while Dion wants to be Prime Minister so he can lead us to a greener, fairer, richer Canada. What a difference, Wake up Canadians.
Here is an EXCELLENT piece from the Conference Board of Canada (February 2008)!
If you take the time to read it you will see that what the Conference Board of Canada is recommending is virtually identical to many of the components contained in Dion’s Green Shift.
Harper may call the plan the ‘the green shaft’ to try and instill fear in Canadians. The truth of the matter is that The Green Shift is a well integrated plan that makes sense and is EXACTLY what Canada needs.
This is a very informative docuement that is deserving of your time…
http://www.conferenceboard.ca/cancompete/pdf/Use_Green_Taxes.pdf
TS
strategicvoting@yahoo.ca
For more information on how you can help defeat the Harper Conservatives by casting your ballot on a strategic basis email me at strategicvoting@yahoo.ca and indicate whether you want a BC, Prairie, Ontario, Quebec or Maritime riding assessment.
Perhaps it is in my delivery; I believe you have misunderstood me. I do not feign neutrality nor do I claim to be neutral; I have been very clear that I am, at the moment, a Conservative supporter despite Harper’s missteps which, to be frank, I cannot fathom. I am disappointed with him but I will not vote, as I have said many times, for a party which has Iggy and Rae as senior members. And I will NEVER vote NDP.
I do not use the Lib’s past errors or misdeeds as an excuse for the Conservatives’ moves of the same ilk. I am pointing out, however, that the Libs are not 100% lily-white and the Conservatives are not 100% coal-black.
Thanks for diplomatically pointing out what is, in my view, a deficiency on my part to make myself and my intentions perfectly clear. I will put some effort into improving how I deliver my message.
I will also say that your posts are more thoughtful than mine. I also admire how respectful and well-mannered you are on this blog.
Thanks.
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 12:44 pm
EOE – You have stated that you’ll vote for the neocon conservatives. What’s your purpose of posting on Garth’s blog. Do you really think you’ll convince those of us who think Harper is a control freak who wants to get rid of most of the Cdn institutions.
I’m with Barb the Proofreader et al that sees you who you really are. You’re just another Leasa. You talk about like you’re an environmentalist but I think you’re anything but. If you were, you’d definitely not be supporting Harper. Don’t bother responding as I see you for what you are.
i would also like someone to get the PM to state if he actually believe in man-made global warming, because I don’t believe he does.
By jack on 08.28.08 2:09 pm
And what if he dosen’t? It has not be proven without serious doubts. Despite all the retoric this is just the begining of the research.
By Go Green on 08.28.08 6:29 pm
Maybe, just maybe he is here because he finds the discussion stimulating. Perhaps, there is a chance that at some point, that he might change his mind.
Of course, with the prevalent attitude that if you aren’t with me you’re the enemy, no-one will change anyone’s mind.
I’m sorry, but comments like yours are counter-intuitive to making any progress. You push away all the people who you don’t agree with, then the chance of winning converts is zero.
“Go Green”, I see you for what you are, too.
I am so outraged by the CPC widespread, organized tactics, vandalizing free speech, that I’m telling EVERYONE I know about Harper’s tactics. My best evidence for my family and neighbours is the times I’m smeared here by CPC self-appointed trolls — obviously it gets under the skin of Harper’s pals enough when I post the truth about him that they have to “go after” me by planting words in my mouth that I did not say and posts of innuendo of things I am not. Good, I’m getting to them. Crazy world in Canada since Harpo became PM.
Be tough but smart, trust your instincts. I am watching a couple of other ladies and gents like me getting smeared by CPC pact more and more. Gals & guys, I think the real Trolls are beginning to drop their gloves and will be even more obvious as this stupid election scam of Harper’s plays out. If it seems like a duck, it’s a duck.
“Effie, brace yourself.”
~ Mrs. Doubtfire
I believe ad hominem attacks are against the rules here at Garth.ca. Doesn’t that also include Garth attacking Harper? Unsubstantiated claims? The list goes on…
By Go Green on 08.28.08 6:29 pm
There are quite a few folks on here who have come to the conclusion that if it walks like a duck, clucks like a duck….usually it is ….
So East,
If you have doubts about Elizabeth May she will be in your area in September. The best way of determining trust is to see them live and in colour. I don’t think she is insincere but a very passionate activist. When I went to SFU, in the bad radical days of student protests, we fought for our views.
This is not an endorsement she is a mature woman and has fought long battles on the environment. Even David Suzuki says dumb things because the blowback has been difficult and frustrating.
All I want you to consider is exercise your vote with thought and not stand in the booth and relent to Conservative talking points as a measure of your values.
Now I would prefer you vote for the Liberals as you are thoughtful. You like M. Dion – so who cares about Iggy and Rae they do not control the party – M. Dion does now.
East of Eden, Look to the future not the past.
Tony Baloney and his gallows humour may be found here:
http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/486829
Perhaps it is in my delivery; I believe you have misunderstood me. I do not feign neutrality nor do I claim to be neutral; I have been very clear that I am, at the moment, a Conservative supporter despite Harper’s missteps which, to be frank, I cannot fathom. I am disappointed with him but I will not vote, as I have said many times, for a party which has Iggy and Rae as senior members. And I will NEVER vote NDP.
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 12:44 pm
So I gather from this post and previous ones that trust is an important factor when deciding to vote for a political party. What mystifies me is your support of Harper when clearly he is a man who cannot be trusted as pointedly demonstrated in his complete reversal of his promise on Income Trusts, his bald faced lies at the Montebello SPP summit denying the existence of the NAFTA Superhighway which was just months before glowingly promoted by the Premier of Manitoba in his throne speech, his denial of his attempt to bribe Mr. Cadman which was caught on audio tape, and I could go on. I will happily provide you with links to support these examples of Harper’s untrustworthiness (is that a word?) if you wish.
So please tells us EOE, how can you support such an untrustworthy leader of a political party? And why do you distrust Ignatieff and Rae so much when they have yet to show untrustworthy behaviour. Remember it is Dion who leads the Liberals, not Ignatieff or Rae. You support the CPC despite their untrustworthy leader, yet dismiss the LPC whose leader is a man of integrity and trust. Somehow your logic seems flawed.
I’m with Barb the Proofreader et al that sees you who you really are. You’re just another *****
BY GO GREEN ON 08.28.08 6:29 PM
Go Green, with all due respect, I’m afraid you have accidentally taken my words and lumped them with others by mistake. I did not say what you implied. I said “People have to size each other up, it takes time” and then I respectfully summarized what I thought he or she was saying — the gist, because I had my own point to make that I think in the next election, the leader is everything.
Go Green, I hope you understand that is important, as you have just put me in the middle of something that I do not do. I trust it is just a case of you reading my post too quickly, but be more careful and do not put words into my mouth that I did not say. Unfortunately that’s a CPC trick and I’m sure you will want to explain that you would never do that intentionally. Thanks.
It s not Mr. Dions leadership style that is stoping me from voting Liberal. If the liberals get in to power, they will “give away the store” to power corp and china with Kyoto credits. China is the last country that needs money. There will be nothing left
Anyone seen the latest CPC ads trying to show PMSH as the cuddly, soft guy?
Look carefully, the whole thing is out of focus. Which is interesting as the PM is telling us that M. Dion has taken the Libs further left than Trudeau. (see announcement of the ice breaker John G. Diefenbaker) and will tax and spend.
Question, how many times did Trudeau become PM?
Question, who’s government is the one that has spent the most in history?
Question, how many high profile spending announcemnts has this government cancelled because they’ve blown the surplus?
As for moving the Libs left, Einstein would call it relativity. From the PM’s point of view the Libs may be moving left, but maybe its because he has taken the CPC further to the right than any other conservative PM!
I trust M. Dion will change tact, away from hidden CPC agendas and bring the record of this government into focus.
I believe that by forcing an election Harper admits to his failure to move his agenda.
And yet he consistently touts his governments achievements over the past two years: how can he have it both ways?
Either his government has been successful or it hasn’t.
And if it has been successful as Harper constantly tells us, then why is he demanding an election?
Is he a liar? a deceiver? a flip-flopper? an opportunist? a mis-leader?
Can you post a link
BY MARC 08.28.08 1:42 PM
~ “The Canadian government sponsored a swish lunch reception at its consul-general’s Denver residence. The food included bite-sized bits of beef, shrimp, tortellini and potatoes gratin. Health Minister Tony Clement, whose absence from Canada during the tainted meat crisis has not gone unnoticed, was there and introduced himself:
“I’m Health Minister Tony Clement, and I have to say I approved this food.”"
http://impolitical.blogspot.com/
I’d like to see the Lib town halls “you-tubed” as well. It would be excellent advertizing.
David, Brain – great idea.
What do you think the chances of the Government bailing out all those who lost money on their plane tickets with Zoom airlines…I mean if we can bail out all the ABCP…and prop up financial institutions and give the Bank of Canada clearance to buy all sort of financial paper…maybe they could bail out the poor folks who lost their money to Zoom….oh, just kidding folks before I get deluged with responses!!!
Were you aware all these products may be tainted, not just Maple Leaf brands?
My answer was “No” until 15 minutes ago.
So, LET ME KNOW YES or NO
maybe I was slow.
…..Joe
____________________________________
Newsroom > Food Recalls and Allergy Alerts
MEAT PRODUCTS PRODUCED AT ESTABLISHMENT 97B MAY CONTAIN LISTERIA MONOCYTOGENES
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/corpaffr/recarapp/2008/list97be.shtml
Main Page – Listeria Investigation and Recall
This list of recalled products will be updated as required with the most accurate information possible.
Please note: All affected products can be identified by the Establishment number that appears on the packages. The products made at this facility bear Establishment number (Est) 97B. The Establishment number is located near the Best Before or Packed On dates.
If the original product identity and Best Before code is not evident, you are advised to check with your retailer or supplier to determine if the product is affected.
Brand
Product Name
Product
Code
UPC
Up To And Including
(Best Before Date):
Package
Size
Artisan Collection
All Ham Kielbassa
32138
90063100321386
22-Oct-08
3.5 kg
Artisan Collection
CA OVEN RSTD TKY
32125
90063100321256
22-Oct-08
4 kg
Artisan Collection
Montreal Smoked Meat
32136
90063100321362
15-Oct-08
2.5 kg
Best Value
Cooked Ham
24171
771212852557
22-Oct-08
375 g
Bittners
Country Hearth Kielbassa Baked Meat Loaf Smoked
60271
90060811602711
29-Oct-08
2 kg
Bittners
Country Hearth Peppercorn Baked Meat Loaf Smoked
60218
90060811602186
29-Oct-08
2 kg
Bittners / Schneiders
All Ham Kielbasa Smoked Sausage
60250
90060811602506
22-Oct-08
3.5 kg
Bittners / Schneiders
Country Hearth French Onion Baked Meat Loaf Smoked
60215
90060811602155
29-Oct-08
2 kg
Bittners / Schneiders
Country Hearth Ham & Bacon Baked Meat Loaf
60213
90060811602131
29-Oct-08
2 kg
Bittners / Schneiders
Slo-Roast Oven Roasted Boneless Turkey Breast
60235
90060811602353
22-Oct-08
4 kg
Boston Pizza
Slow Cooked shaved Roast Beef
07133
10063100071339
16-Feb-09
750 g
Burns
Bite Size Snack Pepperoni Bites
21360
063100213602
2-Jan-09
500 g
Burns
Bologna
17034
006400017034
22-Oct-08
4 kg
Burns
Bologna
17035
90056839170356
22-Oct-08
2/CN
Burns
Bologna
24945
064000002129
22-Oct-08
6kg
Burns
Bologna
29920
64000002129
22-Oct-08
750 g
Burns
Bologna
33030
0 640220 4
22-Oct-08
175 g
Burns
Bung Bologna
24759
90056839247591
22-Oct-08
3.5- 4 kg
Burns
Cooked Ham
34908
06402107
15-Oct-08
375 g
Burns
Cooked Ham
35890
06401904
15-Oct-08
175 g
Burns
Pepperoni
18015
90064000180158
18-Dec-08
2.3 kg
Burns
Pepperoni
19496
06420307
15-Oct-08
375 g
Burns
Pepperoni
46590
06403504
15-Oct-08
175 g
Burns
Pepperoni Generic
41452
90063100414521
15-Oct-08
Burns
Pizza Toppings (Salami, Smoked Ham, Pepperoni)
60089
90060383600894
22-Oct-08
2.2 kg
Burns
Salami
10812
06411707
29-Oct-08
375 g
Burns
Salami
17981
90064000179817
18-Dec-08
2.3 kg
Burns
Salami Generic
41451
90063100414514
29-Oct-08
Burns
Summer Sausage
18007
90064000180073
18-Dec-08
2.3 kg
Burns
Salami
49743
06403203
29-Oct-08
175 g
Burns
Salami, Pepperoni, Summer Sausage
53640
90000000536403
19-Oct-08
3.98 kg
Campfire
Garlic Sausage
39691
10056839396910
22-Oct-08
500 g
Compliments
COMPLIMENTS CHKN BRST 12×125 g
34219
22-Oct-08
125 g
Compliments
COMPLIMENTS TURKY BRST 12x125g
34220
22-Oct-08
125 g
Compliments
Fat Free Chicken Breast
34225
0 55742 38110 8
22-Oct-08
125 g
Compliments
Fat Free Turkey Breast
34226
0 55742 38111 5
22-Oct-08
125 g
Coorsh
Pastrami Smoked Beef
50499
90055900504991
22-Oct-08
2.1 kg
Coorsh
Smoked Meat 4×50 g
51275
0 55900 51275 7
22-Oct-08
200 g
Country Morning
Cooked Ham
17418
057316029089
22-Oct-08
175 g
Country Morning
Cooked Ham
82538
057316173027
22-Oct-08
375 g
Equality
Cooked Ham
24263
057627350407
22-Oct-08
375 g
Foodservice
Roast Beef Cooked, Seasoned
71330
10064875713301
1-Oct-08
10 kg
Foodservice
Food Service Corned Beef/Smkd meat
71331
10064875113318
1-Oct-08
10 kg
Harmonie
Cooked Ham
20079
0 57316 07215 3
22-Oct-08
375 g
Hickory Farms
Beef Stick Beef Sausage
93199
058485931999
16-Feb-09
1 kg
Hickory Farms
Beef Stick Beef Sausage
06932
10058485069323
16-Feb-09
250 g
Hickory Farms
Beef Stick Beef Sausage
16963
10058485063634
16-Feb-09
175 g
Hickory Farms
Beef Stick Beef Sausage
91004
058485910048
16-Feb-09
375 g
Hickory Farms
Beef Stick Beef Sausage with Roasted Garlic
91017
058485910178
16-Feb-09
375 g
Hickory Farms
#2 Beef Stick Beef Sausage
93198
10000000931981
16-Feb-09
Hygrade
Pepperoni
00040
05864000508
17-May-09
25 g
Hygrade
Barbeque Flavoured Sausage
00042
058640000522
17-May-09
25 g
Hygrade
Barbeque Flavoured Sausage
00052
058640000522
17-May-09
25 g
Hygrade
Pepperoni
00050
058640000508
17-May-09
25 g
Hygrade
Garlic Bologna
00207
058640002076
18-Nov-08
500 g
Hygrade
Cooked, Sliced Smoked Meat
01151
058640011511
22-Oct-08
200 g
Kirkland Signature
Smoked Pastrami Beef Rounds
08448
0 62000 08448 0
15-Oct-08
1 kg
Maple Leaf
PREM DELI REG BOLO MP CAS 2PC
07711
90000000077111
18-Dec-08
4.5 kg
Maple Leaf
#2 Assorted Cooked Meats
17183
10056839171838
22-Oct-08
5 kg
Maple Leaf
#2 Assorted Smoked Sausage Rings
22930
90000000229305
22-Oct-08
1.8 kg
Maple Leaf
#2 Bologna
22931
10000000229316
22-Oct-08
1.5kg
Maple Leaf
#2 Turkey Breast Roast Ends & Pieces Cooked
99158
10063100991583
1-Oct-08
1kg
Maple Leaf
All Beef Bologna
82708
063100827083
29-Oct-08
375 g
Maple Leaf
Deli Meat Macaroni and Cheese Loaf
22781
90063100227817
15-Oct-08
2/CA
Maple Leaf
Blood Pudding
22919
90063100229194
29-Oct-08
425 g
Maple Leaf
Bologna
22882
90063100228821
22-Oct-08
1 kg
Maple Leaf
Bologna
82771
063100827717
29-Oct-08
375 g
Maple Leaf
Cooked Diced All white Turkey Roll
80316
90067052803167
20-Aug-09
2.25 kg
Maple Leaf
Cooked Ham
82024
0 63100 82024 4
22-Oct-08
375 g
Maple Leaf
Deli Express Smoked Meat 4×50 g
83744
0 63100 83744 0
22-Oct-08
200 g
Maple Leaf
Deli Gourmet Roast Beef Slices
60243
10000000602430
1-Oct-08
1 kg
Maple Leaf
Deli Mock Chicken Loaf Rolled in Toasted Wheat Crumbs
22829
90063100228296
15-Oct-08
3.6 kg
Maple Leaf
Deli Shaved Corned Beef
48000
0 62000 48019 0
22-Oct-08
200 g
Maple Leaf
Deli Shaved Honey Ham
48004
0 62000 48017 6
22-Oct-08
200 g
Maple Leaf
Deli Shaved Smoked Ham
48002
0 62000 48016 9
22-Oct-08
200 g
Maple Leaf
Deli Shaved Smoked Meat
48001
0 62000 48020 6
22-Oct-08
200 g
Maple Leaf
Deli Shaved Smoked Turkey
48003
0 62000 48018 3
22-Oct-08
200 g
Maple Leaf
EZEE PIZZA (pepperoni, italian style salami, black forest smoke ham)
80219
64000040503
22-Oct-08
250 g
Maple Leaf
Ezee Sub Dagwood (Salami, Bologna, Smoked Luncheon Meat)
61380
0 63100 61380 8
22-Oct-08
375 g
Maple Leaf
Ezee Sub Hero (Pepperoni, Salami, Smoked Ham)
61361
0 63100 61361 7
22-Oct-08
375 g
Maple Leaf
Ezee Sub Gourmet (Smoked Turkey Breast, Smoked Ham, Smoked Corned Beef)
61353
0 63100 61353 2
22-Oct-08
250 g
Maple Leaf
Ezee Sub Turkey (Smoked Turkey Breast, Smoked Turkey Salami, Smoked Ham Style Turkey)
68684
0 63100 68684 0
22-Oct-08
250 g
Maple Leaf
Fully Cooked Grilled Chicken Breast Strips
89442
063100894429
22-Oct-08
400 g
Maple Leaf
Fully Cooked Grilled Chicken Breast Strips Seasoned and Glazed
89425
063100894252
22-Oct-08
150 g
Maple Leaf
Garlic Bologna
82718
063100827182
5-Nov-08
375 g
Maple Leaf
Hot Pepperoni
83166
063100831660
29-Oct-08
250 g
Maple Leaf
MAPLE LEAF DELI BOLOGNA 2×4.5 kg
22507
90063100225073
16-Feb-09
4.5 kg
Maple Leaf
ML BEEF SALAMI 2×2.5 kg
33249
90063100332498
18-Dec-08
2.4 kg
Maple Leaf
ML Deli Headcheese Gelatine Added
22766
90063100227664
22-Oct-08
1.5 kg
Maple Leaf
ML LARGE WAX BOLO 2×4.4 kg
22101
90063100221013
16-Feb-09
4.4 kg
Maple Leaf
ML LARGE WAX BOLO 6×4.4 kg
22555
90063100225554
16-Feb-09
4.4 kg
Maple Leaf
ML SURE SLI SHVD SMKD TKY 3×1 kg
21449
10063100214491
15-Oct-08
1 kg
Maple Leaf
ML WAX BOLOGNA BAG 6×1 kg
22388
9006300223888
18-Dec-08
1 kg
Maple Leaf
ML WISE-CH WAX BOLOGNA 2×4 kg
82151
90063100821510
18-Dec-08
4 kg
Maple Leaf
Oven Roasted Boneless Turkey Breast
60236
90060811602360
8-Oct-08
4 kg
Maple Leaf
Pepperoni
83118
90063100831182
18-Dec-08
Maple Leaf
Pepperoni
83130
063100831301
29-Oct-08
250 g
Maple Leaf
Pepperoni 50% Less Fat
83121
063100831219
29-Oct-08
250 g
Maple Leaf
Salami
22851
90063100228517
18-Dec-08
2.8 kg
Maple Leaf
Smoked Pastrami Beef Rounds
08450
10000000084502
1-Oct-08
10 kg
Maple Leaf
Sure Slice Black Forest Style Ham
21440
10063100214408
22-Oct-08
1 kg
Maple Leaf
Sure Slice Combo Pack
21388
10063100213883
1-Oct-08
1 kg
Maple Leaf
Sure Slice Corned Beef
21444
10063100214446
15-Oct-08
1 kg
Maple Leaf
Sure Slice Roast Beef
21333
10063100213333
1-Oct-08
1 kg
Maple Leaf
Sure Slice Smoked Ham
21331
10063100213319
22-Oct-08
1 kg
Maple Leaf
Sure Slice Turkey Breast Roast
21334
10063100213340
15-Oct-08
1 kg
Maple Leaf
Sure Slice Salami
21447
10063100214477
22-Oct-08
1 kg
Maple Leaf
Thick Sliced Bologna 375 g
82756
0 63100 82756 4
22-Oct-08
375 g
Mayfair / Marque
Chopped Cooked Ham
82015
05962028662
22-Oct-08
375 g
McDonalds
Sliced Cooked Turkey Breast
26365
10063100263659
1-Oct-08
470 g
Mitchell’s
Cheddar Cheese Smoked Sausage 600 g
24355
0 59620 74241 8
22-Oct-08
600 g
Mitchell’s
Mozzarela Cheese Smoked Sausage 600 g
60674
0 59620 74527 3
22-Oct-08
600 g
Mitchell’s
Smoked Sausage 600 g
60402
0 59620 82716 0
22-Oct-08
600 g
Mr. Sub
Seasoned Cooked Roast Beef
02356
10063100023567
8-Oct-08
500 g
No Name
Garlic Sausage
39144
90060383391440
22-Oct-08
No Name
Low Fat Smoked Turkey And Ham
67768
060383368760
15-Oct-08
375 g
No Name
Low Fat Smoked Turkey Breast
67776
6038336878
15-Oct-08
375 g
Northern Best Value
Cooked Ham
38164
771212852649
22-Oct-08
175 g
Olympic
Cooked Ham
82023
59620134398
22-Oct-08
175 g
Overlander
Garlic Sausage
55372
06935216
5-Nov-08
300 g
Overlander
Garlic Sausage Double Smoked
55308
06930813
5-Nov-08
300 g
Overlander
Ham Sausage
55355
06935517
19-Nov-08
300 g
Overlander
Hot Pepperoni Stiks
55863
06986317
17-May-09
200 g
Overlander
Kolbassa Sausage
55353
06935313
19-Nov-08
300 g
Overlander
Mild Pepperoni Stiks
55867
06986715
17-May-09
200 g
Overlander
Pepperoni
55559
06955919
5-Nov-08
250 g
Overlander
Pepperoni for Pizza
55114
10069100551147
22-Oct-08
3.2 kg
Overlander
Polish Sausage
55351
06935119
5-Nov-08
300 g
Overlander
Salami
55558
06955812
5-Nov-08
250 g
Overlander
Summer Sausage
55551
06955113
5-Nov-08
250 g
Overlander
Ukrainian Sausage
55350
06935012
18-Nov-08
300 g
Overlander
Ukrainian Sausage Double Smoked
55307
06930716
19-Nov-08
300 g
Parma
Canadian Style Pepperoni
01742
90055900017422
29-Oct-08
2.5 kg
Parma
Pepperoni
01740
10063100017405
29-Oct-08
2.5 kg
Parma
PM PEPPERONI 4×4.5 kg
01745
90055900017453
20-Aug-08
Parma
Pepperoni
01750
10063100017504
29-Oct-08
2.5 kg
Pizza Nova
Sliced Pepperoni
01741
10063100017412
29-Oct-08
2.5 kg
Safeway
Pepperoni Generic
81795
90000000817953
22-Oct-08
4.07 kg
Safeway
Salami Generic
81809
90000000818097
22-Oct-08
4.07 kg
Safeway
Three Variety Super Pack (Salami, Pepperoni, Summer Sausage)
88404
90000000884047
22-Oct-08
790 g
Schneider
Deli Shaved Smoked Ham
48016
0 62000 48016 9
22-Oct-08
200 g
Schneider
Deli Shaved Fully Cooked Smoked Honey Ham
48017
0 62000 48017 6
22-Oct-08
200 g
Schneider
Deli Shaved Smoked Turkey Breast
48018
0 62000 48018 3
22-Oct-08
200 g
Schneider
Deli Shaved Corned Beef
48019
0 62000 48019 0
22-Oct-08
200 g
Schneider
Deli Shaved Smoked Meat
48020
0 62000 48020 6
22-Oct-08
200 g
Schneider’s
Bavarian smokies
02106
0 64844 02105 8
29-Oct-08
1 kg
Schneider’s
Cheddar smokies
02126
0 64844 02124 9
29-Oct-08
1 kg
Schneiders
Deli Best Seasoned Cooked Roast Beef
09628
90064844096288
15-Oct-08
2.5 kg
Schneiders
Deli Best Cooked Montreal Style Corned Beef
09679
90064844096790
15-Oct-08
2.5 kg
Schneiders
Deli Best Cooked Montreal Style Corned Beef
24796
90064844247963
15-Oct-08
2.5 kg
Schneiders
Deli Best Seasoned Cooked Roast Beef
24802
90064844248021
15-Oct-08
2.5
Schneiders
Roast Beef, Seasoned and Cooked
42706
10063100427068
8-Oct-08
500 g
Schneiders
Montreal Style Corned Beef
44938
10063100449381
15-Oct-08
500 g
Schneiders
JMS SMKD BLK FOREST HAM 12×425 g
89455
6200089455
22-Oct-08
Schneiders
JMS SMKD BLKK FOREST HAM 20×100 g
89456
10062000894567
22-Oct-08
Schneiders
JMS SMKD TURKEY
89458
6200089458
15-Oct-08
Schneiders
JMS SPICY PEPPERONI
89460
10062000894604
29-Oct-08
Schneiders
JMS ITAL STYLE SALAMI
89461
10062000894611
29-Oct-08
Schneiders
Liverwurst Fine
60165
062000601656
18-Dec-08
175 g
Schneiders
Liverwurst with Herbs
60166
062000601663
18-Dec-08
175 g
Schneiders
Liverwurst Creamy
60167
062000601670
18-Dec-08
175 g
Shopsys
Cooked Seasoned Montreal Style Smoked Meat Extra Lean
27118
90064875271180
15-Oct-08
2.5 kg
Shopsys
Corned Beef 4×50 g
21093
0 64875 21093 3
22-Oct-08
200 g
Shopsys
Old Vienna All Beef Salami
20080
64875200804
22-Oct-08
500 g
Shopsys
Pepperoni
20085
064875200859
17-May-09
25 g
Shopsys
Real Deli Corned Beef Extra Lean
27080
90064875270800
15-Oct-08
2.5 kg
Shopsys
Seasoned Fully Cooked Roast Beef Extra Lean
21760
90064875217607
15-Oct-08
2/cn
The Butcher’s Cut
Cooked Ham
88013
0 58200 67415 6
22-Oct-08
375 g
The Butcher’s Cut
Cooked Ham
88331
0 58200 15184 8
22-Oct-08
175 g
Tim Hortons
Slow Roast Beef, WIP
33544
Tim Hortons
TIM HORTONS ROAST BEEF
33540
6310033540
16-Feb-09
1.25 kg
Western Family
Sliced Cooked Ham 175 g
22357
0 62639 18159 8
22-Oct-08
175 g
Western Family
Sliced Cooked Ham
22365
0 62639 18159 8
22-Oct-08
375 g
Westfair
Pepperoni Generic
53635
90060383536353
22-Oct-08
3.98 kg
Westfair
Summer Sausage
53619
90060383536193
22-Oct-08
3.98 kg
Westfair
Salami Generic
53627
90060383536278
22-Oct-08
3.98 kg
Westfair
Sub Sandwich (Salami, Smoked Ham, Pepperoni)
82457
90000000824579
22-Oct-08
3.91 kg
BURNS SADDLE-PACK BOLO 12/2×250
41450
90063100414507
22-Oct-08
ML LOUISIANA BLACKENED ROAST BEEF
41825
8-Oct-08
BURNS SL SUMMER 12×175 g
65757
6403106
15-Oct-08
175 g
Brand
Product Name
Product
Code
UPC
Up To And Including
(Production Date):
Package
Size
Maple Leaf
Bavarian Smokies
78010
10063100780101
20-Aug-08
4 kg
Maple Leaf
Debreziner Smoked Cooked Sausage
78023
10063100780231
20-Aug-08
4 kg
Maple Leaf
German Bratwurst Sauasage
78016
10063100780163
20-Aug-08
4 kg
Maple Leaf
Ham Sausage
55357
10000000553570
20-Aug-08
1.5 kg
Maple Leaf
Hot Italian Sausage
78017
10063100780179
20-Aug-08
4 kg
Maple Leaf
Pizza Gourmet Cooked Italian Sausage Pizza Toppin g
50579
10063100505797
20-Aug-08
1 kg
Maple Leaf
Pizza Gourmet Cooked Spice Beef Sausage Toppin g
50583
10063100505834
20-Aug-08
1 kg
Maple Leaf
Rings Tender Pepperoni Sausage
50638
90000000506383
20-Aug-08
24 kg
Maple Leaf
Sliced Pizza Pepperoni
50624
10063100506244
20-Aug-08
5 kg
Rouyn
Pizza Pepperoni
50652
90000000506529
20-Aug-08
24 kg
Shopsys
Sliced Pizza Pepperoni
71350
10063100713505
20-Aug-08
5 kg
Shopsys
Sliced Pizza Pepperoni
71352
10064875713523
20-Aug-08
2.5 kg
Fact Sheet: Food Safety Facts on Listeria
Audio Clips for Food Recalls and Allergy Alerts
//The following identifies which elements by name value we want reported x0=document.getElementsByName
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Hey Garth, did you read this ?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080828.wlibgreen28/CommentStory/National/home
You’re own party has concerns with the Green Shift. And how about Iggy on CTV…
Are gas prices going up?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/08/29/cnrussia129.xml&DCMP=EMC-mcn_29082008
I’m with Barb the Proofreader et al that sees you who you really are. You’re just another Leasa. You talk about like you’re an environmentalist but I think you’re anything but. If you were, you’d definitely not be supporting Harper. Don’t bother responding as I see you for what you are.
By Go Green on 08.28.08 6:29 pm
Good morning Green ! Glad you have awoken to the reality of who our ‘Concern Troll ‘ EoE ,is .
You will be a lot happier ignoring his drivel and obsequiousness .
I know I am .
Surprise, surprise. A Conservative cabinet minister misleading the Canadian public? Unheard of!
===
Government backs off claim meat plant inspectors spend half time on site
24 minutes ago
OTTAWA — The federal government is backing away from previous assurances that its health inspectors spend at least half their time doing on-site physical inspections at meat processing plants across the country.
Agriculture Minister Gerry Ritz made the claim this week, in the face of a deadly listeriosis outbreak linked to a Maple Leaf Foods processing plant in Toronto.
But under a deluge of criticism from the meat inspectors union, federal officials now say there’s a difference between the “design” of the inspection system and the daily reality of its operation.
The about-face came after Bob Kingston, president of the agricultural employees wing of the Public Service Alliance of Canada, issued a statement Thursday accusing Ritz of misleading the public.
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5ghnPPApaUf22kUCMlimwIDqgSuGA
===
Protecting Canadians? Hogwash!
I’d like to see 20% of our MPs to be independents. I hope that makes the mud a little more clear.
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 3:19 pm
The election is tomorrow, your at the ballot box. You have but one vote. Are you throwing it back in support of harper & conpany again?
Obviously you are free to do as you wish, but is the harper way of Canada the way you want Canada to go?
That is one RESOUNDING NO from me. Whats your take?
I haven’t been interested in politics for a very long time. Probably 4 or 5 years at the most. I have obviously read and listened to the news about it before that, but it has only been those last years that I have been really into the direction of this country.
I seriously fear for our future if the cons get back into power. Be it minority or majority (god forbid) con government, I don’t see myself staying all that interested. It’s a bit depressing but if the cons stay in power I cannot see myself voting in any election again within the foreseeable future.
If a government can manipulate its citizens with such ease and get away with what it has without repercussions… Then whats the point of voting? All you need is a bunch of money and the internet to mould people as you see fit.
If they see power again. I think I’ll go find a big piece of land in the middle of nowhere to hide under.
Geez people it took you long enough to open your eyes to EofE I called him out on the B/S Meter from the beginning”Concern Troll”.All you had to do was read I mean really READ his Looong rambling Pro harperCON posts with the usually Blame the Liberals and he even dragged old PET out of the grave for crying out loud.Oh and as much as implied that Garth isn’t Honest. I had to stop reading his sickly sweet posts for I’m a Type 2 diabetic.;>)
This is how the Green Shift as applied in the UK is working.
**”GREEN TAX CON COSTS YOU A FORTUNE
[Socialist Prime Minister] “BROWN: Accused of exploiting environmental concerns”
“FAMILIES are being ripped off by an average of £783 a year through Gordon Brown’s bogus “green” taxes, it emerged yesterday.
Hard-pressed households are being forced to pay far more than necessary in motoring taxes and council tax bills as well as a raft of other measures allegedly imposed to cover the cost of pollution.
In total, taxpayers had to hand over £19.6billion too much in so-called green taxes last year – and lower-income households are being hit hardest, said a report.”
http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/58759
Someone please explain why that could not happen in Canada.
Because Canada is not Britain. How hard was that? — Garth
Someone please explain why that could not happen in Canada.
Because Canada is not Britain. How hard was that? — Garth
By ST on 08.28.08 10:26 pm
I was expecting a little more clarity than that sir.
Britain did not institute a tax shift, moving the cost of a carbon tax off personal and corporate income taxes and onto the shoulders of carbon emitters. Under the Liberal plan, there would not be an added after-tax carbon burden in Canada. Under the Conservative plan, with no tax cuts, there would be. — Garth
“I’m Health Minister Tony Clement, and I have to say I approved this food.””
http://impolitical.blogspot.com/
By Barb the proofreader on 08.28.08 8:00 p
Correction: All of the food in that Denver Colorado neighborhood is approved by the USDA FDA
aka United States Dept. of Agriculture
Food and Drug Administration
Tony Clement should bite down hard while he has his tongue in cheek!
BY MEN WITH HATS 08.28.08 9:00 PM
Again, my name has been falsely invoked (sorry Men With Hats, it’s not your fault, you were just quoting Go Green so that’s a tough one).
And Go Green – who I think must have accidentally dumped my name in there while having a train of thought – hello.. Go Green, hello, please check me out of that particular debate line up per my earlier note to you, right away please and fix your error, not mine
Spending OUR money and then naming a new icebreaker after the PM who destroyed Canada’s rightful place in the world aerospace arena.
By Bill-Muskoka (not anymore) on 08.28.08 5:59 pm
If it mis-performs like some of our other vessels, it will soon be called the Diefenbugger! or worse!
I’m seeing shades of the Harper Handbook Tactics used against good people here, more and more. Is that what we call fairness?
By Barb the proofreader on 08.28.08 3:46 pm
Speaking of the Dirty Tricks Handbook, I have been told that one copy got out and into the possession of Don Martin of the Calgary Hearld. Has a copy or summary of this ever been posted on the net and if so do you have a link to it?
I would like to read it in total to make my own judgment and assessment of the true nature of this document. It may be considered confidential but it should be subpeonaed by the HoC sub committee on Ethics and the other committee on Rules and Procedures. From the descriptions of the purported aims I feel that it is a subversive and treasonous manual on intellectual terrorism. You can see where I think this could lead to if there is a Liberal minority or majority elected in Oct.! Like lock them up and deny them bail!
Under the Conservative plan, with no tax cuts, there would be. — Garth
The Conservatives have all ready given us tax breaks. Fairly good ones at that.
No income tax cuts. — Garth
. I had to stop reading his sickly sweet posts for I’m a Type 2 diabetic.;>)
By SUE on 08.28.08 10:21 pm
Why Sue, he even chastised me for my ‘inappropriate’ acronym C.R.A.P./S.H.I.T.’s … and two others here jumped on the bandwagon to play their version of his so-called trumpcard.
Because Canada is not Britain. How hard was that? — Garth
Tory MP Philip Davies said: “More and more people are realising that green taxes have nothing to do with being green. They’re just an excuse to tax us more.
——–
Harder than you think but please try anyway.
Administration costs?
Taxing the emitters seems inaccurate when they pass all the costs down to consumers which will use the indicated tax relief to offset increased costs. Consumers are then supposed to upgrade to green products to save the difference. Consider the following article because I think you`ll have a hard time selling it to the worsening economic conditions of the majority of Cdns that already believe the`re only 1 or 2 paychecks away from bankruptcy.
One middle class friend said he`d like to put in high efficiency bulbs but when you can buy a pack of four for less than a sandwich groceries come first. I don`t think he`ll be jumping for joy when he`s taxed into spending more money.
The NDP has overtaken the Libs in BC. There is a fair amount of resentment over the Libs brown(green)tax.
As a diversion by both parties away from the issues around our social and economic structures it makes for an interesting topic.
All in all Tory MP Davies speaks a common language. No more excuses to tax us, you made this mess on our dime, fix it on your dime.
http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/22082008/2/biz-finance-canadian-consumers-turn-food-banks-bargain-hunting-stickhandle.html
Canadian consumers turn to food banks, bargain hunting to stickhandle inflation
Fri Aug 22, 1:55 PM
Eric Shackleton , The Canadian Press
By SJ on 08.28.08 10:18 pm
Hiding out isn’t going to save you SJ, or anyone you care about. What you fear will come for you too, sooner or later. Even you cannot please everyone all the time.
Not voting is dereliction of duty as a Canadian, period. You can bet your last cent (and may do so) that the very people you are most afraid of are at this minute trying to stop people from exercising their right to vote, from even recognizing that they HAVE rights to exercise.
You may be sincere, SJ, in your trepidation and disgust. But, I am of a more skeptical nature and am cynical, so I read with some interest and a jaundiced eye the ploy being used in some places where some try to convince others to Not Vote and Feel Good About It.
My take is you really cannot trust someone who doesn’t vote. Lie all you want about who or what you vote for if you must, but get your butt to the polling station, get your name crossed off the list, go into the cubicle and make your mark or spoil your ballot, go out and put it in the ballot box. Anything less is mere posturing. If you care not about being apathetic, that’s one thing. To foster apathy in another is sinister.
By Truth B Told on 08.28.08 11:00 pm
http://www.garth.ca/weblog/2008/08/27/fear-hope/#comments
By Truth B Told on 08.28.08 1:01 pm
Bill, having a conversation with yourself is embarrassing the other trolls.
Green shift calculations do not add up?
Single living in B.C. no rural, no Northern living.
35K yearly =$357 savings in yearly taxes
70K yearly =$537 savings in yearly taxes
140K yearly=$1172 savings yearly.
I would suspect that a single making 35K or 70K could have similer size vehicles, and similer size condo. There yearly energy costs could very well be similer. I thought the green shift was to off set higher energy prices due to green shift taxation of polluters. Is this fair that people that could have similer energy uses, save different amounts? Is it fair that a making 70k per year does not save exactly double what a 35k earner saves, and if that is fair, then is it also fair that a 140K earner saves more then double what a person making 70K saves yearly?
The green shift is looking more like a tax on the lower earners, but seen as everybody is saving money, I could live with this gross unfairness.
“…The area provincially is a N.D.P. strong hold for most of the riding, so having Port Moody-Westwood turn Liberal would be an illusion in my opinion.”
By Marc on 08.28.08 3:33 pm
I think your illusion is your own problem. Many friends in PoCo/PoMo are rather sick of sycophantic James Moore. He’s been no help AT ALL on many issues affecting the region; and his 10%ers to “other ridings!” haven’t earned him much. The people who live in his riding see his ads in OTHER ridings as proof that he thinks he has them in his bag.
Also, championing “financial considerations” Harper over Chuck Cadman hasn’t won him much in the way of new supporters.
James Moore is vulnerable. I expect that since he’s on the Five Ring Circus Committee much money will be spent to prop him up but that really doesn’t do much to assuage constituents 50 or more miles away from the Olympics that Moore really has their best interests in mind.
James Moore really is a bit of a poofter, IMO. Showing pics of his ex-girlfriend’s dog with her in the picture in the HoC shows a level of maturity not often seen out of high school.
The green shift is looking more like a tax on the lower earners, but seen as everybody is saving money, I could live with this gross unfairness.
By Marc on 08.28.08 11:46 pm
Good catch Marc. Where’s the equity in that?
By Truth B Told on 08.28.08 1:01 pm
Bill, having a conversation with yourself is embarrassing the other trolls.
By unintended consiquinces on 08.28.08 11:43 p
Apparently some people get their jollies throwing pearls in front of swine, but then other people don’t even recognize intended quinceconses, if you get the drift.
Another post lost in cyber space. That is happening to me quite a few times lately.
Shall try again
Al Gore’s speech tonight at the Democratic convention is worth listening to or reading for those of us interested in climate change and wanting the Green Shift.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/28/gore.transcript/index.html
If Stephen Harper wins another slim minority, will he make Alberta’s children get off the porn and back to school? Will he make their parents stay home and raise their actual children? Will they be spending their $100 at the casino instead of on beer and popcorn under Harper’s watch?
Or will it be all tarsands all the time? Wasn’t it Alberta that wanted 12-year olds washing glasses in bars after midnight for $12 per hour?
Sell that at your Sunday sermon at Rockpointe.
Not our kids! you say. Let’s import some kids to do what our kids can’t or won’t do. That’s the ticket. Diane, how’s that temporary worker immigration change working out? Good to go?
Dear me, but a lot of people desperately need to stay in school, or go back to school. Unless you are 70+ and have a fondness for cold cuts.
Not too sure how to read you EOE but your style is similar to how Leasa would write. Nothing but sweetness one minute & not so sweet the next if she was proven wrong. Hope I’m wrong but I have this uncanny intuition sometimes that makes me suspicious of people. Maybe it’s your defensive style of argument. Oh well! Regards, By Irene on 08.27.08 5:21 pm
That is exactly the feelings that I have been having for a week or so Irene only I didn’t have the guts to post it nor could I figure out as nice a way to say it as you did. By Bonnie L on 08.27.08 6:08 pm
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 7:17 am
I am glad to see you back instead of Lawrence EOE but you could of responded on the proper thread. I do go back & read them. For some odd reason, Lawrence seems to think you are not capable of defending yourself so lecture him instead for butting in. You will tell him won’t you EOE? Btw, you tried very hard to not represent yourself as an Alliance Conservative either so be truthful. Scary thought EOE. Where the hell is Lawrence anyway since your back. You wouldn’t be him now would you?
Now East …., let me be perfectly clear about this. Nowhere in my post did I ever accuse you of being Leasa or a female. If you note, I simply referred that by using her similar style of writing, you seemed to want the readers on this blog to NOT make you appear like you supported the Cons. Mr. Nice Guy is the impression you seem to want others to believe about you but me thinks thy heart is slightly tainted. Btw, I did like reading your posts & you do have a lot to offer but somehow you speak on both sides of your mouth & that doesn’t do a thing for you.
And EOE, I have never been a member of any Federal Party in the past but having a corrupted PM like the present one, I just might have to join one & believe me,it won’t be your party of choice. Besides, I would fail the credentials required by the Alliance/ Cons. Seriously though, I WILL not support a PM who’s so dishonest & vindictive that he will stop at nothing to reach his goals. I am not so blind that I cannot see.
FYI, I too got sucked in by Harper & voted for him last time around & I promise that never again will I place my vote with this bogus leader of the Reform/ Alliance Party. In other words EOE,I will vote for a man or woman who respects hi/hers country & it’s citizens over a PM who is out to destroy it .
By eastofeden on 08.28.08 3:19 pm
While you may not “fathom his missteps” – by your voting for him, you silently condone his actions. Not only do you condone them, you encourage them, because you are rewarding his actions.
By Tim N on 08.28.08 1:40 pm
I couldn’t agree with you more Tim.
Funny how some gut feelings are better than others, yesterday there was quite a discussion on instincts etc….yet today someone has a gut feeling and that is supposed to lend credence to his argument..wait until Lawrence gets a hold of this one…LMAO….
By wjp on 08.28.08 4:02 pm
Touche! He should be making an appearnce soon wjp. Btw, I didn’t mean to open up a can of worms yesterday but it sure smells yuckie.
Have a great long weekend all,
BY TRUTH B TOLD 08.28.08 11:20 PM
TBT,
I agree.. it should be subpoenaed — very important considering his whole premise for an election is debunked by it.
I just use the phrase to summarize what must be a written set of rules. There’d be many version for every-day dirty tricks over the years, for every CPC insiders. Check Flanagan’s obsession way back, teaching Chimpanzee Politics – he pushed it on everyone.
And absolutely they would be copying the very same Karl Rove tactics – devious, with military and psychological studies to help them refine how best to work their little dirty tricks. They really have it figured based on historical success. And they feel justified, based on a stupid and incorrect theory by Strauss. And their failed economic theory goes way back too. These guys are dolts looking for power, and more power. The end game is that they get their way, and their sponsors, corporations, get what they want too. Being unethical – that brings money, influence. So they are dolts with money and a willingness to cheat full time to help themselves win power and institute their narrow preferences over the majority of people. Their tactics will work on a sleeping public – for awhile.
Funny too — they brag. That is part of it. “Hide it in plain site” they say. They always leave an “out” that it’s public knowledge. Flanagan brags about stealthy Harper – in news interviews! The CPC party brags about how much funding they have. Why isn’t anybody checking those books? They are impatient too. Stunningly poor characteristics. But as ugly as they are, it can work – as in the U.S. For awhile. It comes and goes as we forget to be vigilant. We relax. We shouldn’t.
So the CPC and cronies have their own agendas and work in an “I’ll scratch your back” understanding with their power elites. But at the same time they also successfully lie to small biz, people of faith, farmers, regular conservatives and everyone else. That outrages me that they lie to innocent citizens who are taken in. Smart people who just happen to trust them because the hat says conservative. The stolen hat. That was all planned as well. They use innocent people. They must be so full of themselves.
But later, guess what. Unnecessary war because that’s good for their friendly industries who manufacture weapons.. big oil wins, big pharmaceutical wins, big medicine. Ah, yes, big med, I won’t get into that.
The little guy, sucked in, votes for them, helps them, loses in the end. And the leadership cares not, because… the leadership says hey, it’s a dog eat dog world, too bad for you.
So the CPC leadership, not their voters, can win using organized dishonesty.. illegal flyers, tactics, dirty tricks, whatever.
Then they can elbow in their own narrow ideologies – they hate democracy because they don’t like what most people want – a fair playing field. I won’t get into their ideologies. These characteristics they all share, the ultra-right leaders that is, all intrinsic. You can’t trust any of the CPC leaders. NeoCon I should say now. I think the studies nick-named “The Conservative Brain” prove that direction of assumption. These guys are the extreme end of the bell curve on that. Most conservative and liberal thinkers in the middle want decency and fairness, but split over differences of delivery of that. The guys at the feeding end of the neocon leadership do not resemble most of us at all.
Conservative voters, ordinary people, are caught not paying attention, although they think they are. Unfortunately, they don’t question their authorities. It’s being used against them.
Harper wants the election because the cloak is wearing thin, and he knows it.
I notice that East of Eden (like Harry S) still hasn’t come up the details of their vision for the proper number of border guards for this country – all we know is that they appear to think there are too many of them (along with meat inspectors, tax collectors, air quality scientists, marine biologists, dockyard mateys, and seismologists).
I’m sorry, but comments like yours are counter-intuitive to making any progress. You push away all the people who you don’t agree with, then the chance of winning converts is zero.
“Go Green”, I see you for what you are, too.
By Ed Brooks on 08.28.08 6:59 pm
Just one sec ED…this is the gentlemen that claims the high road, which is admirable, this is the gentlemen that claimed he does not demean and judge, then he calls Iggy & Rae snakes and when asked for an explanation, declines saying he is being baited. Sorry but in my book, that is way too easy. In my books his actions and words show him for exactly what he is.
The green shift is looking more like a tax on the lower earners, but seen as everybody is saving money, I could live with this gross unfairness.
By Marc on 08.28.08 11:46 pm
And now Marc, could you give us the tax savings numbers for each of those income groups you highlighted under the CPC environmental plan?
If it mis-performs like some of our other vessels, it will soon be called the Diefenbugger! or worse!
By Truth B Told on 08.28.08 11:00 pm
Harper should bury the very thought in the ‘Diefenbunker’, along with all his other out of date ideologies.
By Irene on 08.29.08 2:00 am
Just a quick note, I am sure Lawrence is Lawrence and is no one else.
By wjp on 08.29.08 5:17 am
So, yeah. Lets banish him, tell him to drop dead.
I don’t mind have discussions with people I disagree with. You never know, you might eventually say something that wins them over to your side.
On the other hand, if we don’t need any extra votes, sure, tell him to buzz off.
Still seems counter-intuitive to me.
At the very least people who only read and don’t contribute would see me trying to engage people, while others are telling them if you don’t agree buzz off.
Let me know which model you prefer.
By wjp on 08.29.08 5:21 am
I never said I support the Conservative plan, so lets leave their plan for future discussion. I was only looking at the tax savings on yearly earnings, on a single no dependants non rural and non northern living and comparing yearly earnings to yearly tax savings.
35K yearly =$357 savings in yearly taxes
70K yearly =$537 savings in yearly taxes
140K yearly=$1172 savings yearly
Do you think it is right that 70K does not save double what 35K saves, and then 140K saves more then double what 70K saves and nearly 4x as 35K saves in taxes? Most likely all 3 have similer energy costs, if no vacations are accounted for as 35K might not travel as much as a 140K earner. Why such the difference in savings compared to earnings?
I do believe that those that pay the most taxes should benefit most from a tax cut, but these numbers do not seem to add up in my opinion. What did I miss when calculating similer situations? Why is 140K earner saving 96$ more then double what 70K earner saves, but 70K earner is saving $177 less then double what 35K is saving? This is not making sense in these situations
By Marc on 08.29.08 12:04 pm
I understand what you are saying, possibly because those in the higher tax bracket already pay a higher percentage of tax on their income already. I don’t know what the thinking was behind Mr. Dion’s plan. I do know we have a choice basically between two plans…and that’s what the election is all about, a choice between platforms of which this is one part and, of course, leadership. If you are asking me what I would like to see, I would prefer the tax relief work out to the same dollar amount for all regardless but that may be selfish on my part because I am in the lower bracket. You bring up a good point, maybe our MP will have an answer on that.
Bill, having a conversation with yourself is embarrassing the other trolls.
By unintended consiquinces on 08.28.08 11:43 pm
Really now? First, your assumption that I am Bill is far wide of the mark, and second, I apologize for embarrassing you, but it is easily done, I see!
Let me know which model you prefer.
By Ed Brooks on 08.29.08 10:56 am
I prefer honest dialogue…and I stress the word honest…if you are a phoney, I have no qualms about pointing that out just as many CPC supporters and others have pointed out many of my mistakes. In your case, you have been straight forward, and honest and I respect that. I am not here to win votes to be honest, I am here to advocate independent government and see that anyone get in but Harper. I have made that clear from day one.
Oh and Ed & Marc, I apologize for the dealy in getting back to you both as I was tied up with family matters….
By Bocanut on 08.27.08 11:26 pm
“Your information is dated. Kyoto is all but dead with Europe being the prime reason for its demise. And as far as Kyoto goes with credits, I suggest you have some reading to do before you can put up a “reasoned” argument that Canada will send billions to China assuming Kyoto ever does get off the ground. And yes, I’ll gladly debate you on the subject. As they say, “it was over before it began”.
By brain on 08.28.08 12:17 pm ”
It took me about 2 minutes to find these links which suggest that what you say isn’t “reasoned” and that Kyoto is “off the ground”.
Perhaps you should try goggling Kyoto the agreement not Kyoto the Dion’s dog.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kyoto_Protocol_signatories
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/climat/bali_07.htm