This week Parliament resumes. Without me, of course. As you might imagine, this is a reflective time as I had not achieved all the goals which drove me once again to be an MP. But I did my best, as flawed and inadequate as that may have been.
In the Spring a new book on my experiences and the lessons of digital democracy will be published which I wrote over the course of the last 20 months. This will come after the release in January of my more current book, “After the Crash” on the financial meltdown and ways to survive it.
While I am not warming a green chair in the House of Commons any more, I hope my words can make a contribution.
Here is a sample of the political book, and one of the conclusions I reached. — Garth
Starkly speaking, my tenure as an MP the second time around was a disaster. Once elected, I immediately fell out of favour with my leader, colleagues and party. Shunned and feared, I was ultimately expelled from my political family. I became what I could never have imagined, an independent member of Parliament, then a Liberal. And yet my relationship with the leader of my new party was more than once strained and stretched to the point of snapping.
Over the course of three short years I turned into one of the most controversial figures in the House of Commons, spawning entire web sites dedicated to my ridicule and defeat. I’d been the only sitting MP in the country challenged for a party nomination in his own riding. Without ever giving a speech or leaving my laptop, I’d inflamed Quebec separatists, enraged congregations of Christians across the country, ignited Westerners and been held up globally as an example of a star-crossed politician.
No cabinet appointment came my way, no critic’s role, chairman’s gavel, extra pay, staff, prestige or title. I was a spokesman for nothing, too independent and edgy for a leader to trust, too unsteady and quixotic to be considered loyal. By choosing principle over party, by pledging my allegiance to the people, I’d made my own bed in Ottawa. By all traditional measures of success there, I enjoyed none.
This came in sharp relief to my first tour of duty in Parliament. As a Progressive Conservative MP under Brian Mulroney, then Kim Campbell, I’d been the only rookie member to be given control of a House of Commons standing committee. I was brought immediately into a policy-making role by finance minister Michael Wilson, and hosted national conferences on containing the national debt and enshrining property rights in the Canadian constitution, both influencing government action. I’d found enough support to run for national party leader, and was subsequently invited into the cabinet and the Privy Council.
The contrast is remarkable, but why?
Age and experience, of course. They bring more clarity to life’s journey. I was better able to see through the aggression and impatience of Stephen Harper, better able to understand the hesitancy and principled reticence of Stephane Dion.
More pivotal, though, was an embrace of populism, direct democracy and the tools which now enable them. Some will argue that destroyed me.
But I had to try.
In the earliest days of again becoming a federal politician, I was ordered to cease blogging, and go offline. The prime minister was unequivocal. There was a choice with clear outcomes. Thus, Stephen Harper is not to blame for what came next. Doubtless, he’d make the same decision again, as would I.
He sought to stop the inevitable, surely believing he could. He worked in a traditional way to contain a threat. The weapon he resorted to was his most powerful. Shunned, then expelled, my political legitimacy would be stripped away with my party affiliation. It was a definitive and devastating experience.
While parties are central to how we run countries, it is less so each day. The Internet has the power to turn unknowns into leaders and involve citizens whom partisan recruiters, organizers and militants will never meet. A blog can alter political outcomes, while web sites reach millions when media outlets are still editing. Politicians who open digital conversations make the future impossible for those who do not. One or two more federal elections, and the traditionalists will be gone.
Parties may follow. They’ll certainly be transformed. Online members will be harder to control, and more responsive to voters. Ridings will melt away in the digital ascent of issues over geography. And if dozens of independents are ever to take their seats in the House of Commons, it will be because of this. Funded, promoted and elected through web-based campaigns, they will skirt the rules of a political establishment which abhors them.
Experience has convinced me this is what many Canadians want. Parties and leaders who demand unquestioning acceptance of dogmatic positions are doomed. No one, not even a prime minister, can put this back in the bottle.
174 comments ↓
WOW good post Garth you have been an inspiration to me! thank you–john
No one, not even a prime minister, can put this back in the bottle.
posted by Garth Turner on 11.16.08 @ 7:01 pm,
I hope you are correct but I have real concerns.
It looks as if the Liberal Party is ready to crown Michael Ignatieff as leader. Many of the constitutional changes were engineered by his supporters and his ability to restrict the forum held today to only an elite group within the party reflects a tightening of control.
The Conservative’s Winnipeg conference introduced a new level of secrecy into party politics as well. From comments of participants, most were former Reformers. I saw only three participants I recognized as former PCs and two of them were clearly of a different opinion from the majority of those in attendance.
With a registration of fee of $650 ($850 after a deadline) to register as a delegate, plus the cost of transportation and accommodation, it limited participation primarily to those with deep pockets. Only 20 per cent of potential Quebec delegates attended.
The use of shunning is a well-used tactic of the Reformers.
I have to hand it Garth Turner as he dared to go where no one has gone before—directly to the people by way of this new digital democracy.
He asked us on many occasions for our opinions on various points of gov`t policy–asked us how he should vote–when is the last time your MP asked you anything , let alone that question.
Garth has single-handedly brought us all into the discussion–actually , he has brought us to a point where we should have been before but where MPs had up until this point refused to take us.
Eventually , this will bring the common guy on the street more respect because our MPs will not be able to hide behind the veil of gov`t secrecy for much longer.
For Stephen Harper , this has got to suck big-time—-controlling the meaningless masses will not be so easy from this point onward.
Garth , for that we thank you.
Dr Mike Popovich–Rodney Ont.
I have never been interested in politics,i have always been the average canadian lots of times never even bothered to vote because i had lost all faith in politicians and our system.You have stood alone,never wavering from your beliefs and never hesitated to voice them–FOR THE PEOPLE! I can only imagine the personal attacks that you have been subjected to.You are a shining light above the crowd! You are a man without question and a breath of fresh air to many canadians.My hope is that you will start your own party and represent the people as it was intended.Canadians are starving for this there is no hope with our present Governments most canadians have totally lost interest and given up.I agree we entering a whole different world,with the internet we can -if interested find out just about anything–the potential is unlimited. The people of Canada need a leader like you.
You need to whisper that to LeBlanc. He is at least younger than the other 2 geezers. I’m a geezer, but my adult kids have no interest whatsoever in an x premier and a harvard prof.
The Control of members by this Prime Minister will continue even with the digital tools we have. We may have to wait to see what the next PM will do with respect to controlling the masses. One of the issues I understand to the control of the media. They are no longer the source of FACTS, but more often editorialize with the agenda to motivate the population. To me, this is the reason to control media interference in the development of policy.It is the role of the electorate to interpret facts and make decisions. To often they feel we are not capable of making the RIGHT decision so therefore they proceed to tell us what to do.
On the case to digital democracy, one of the problems I see is the willingness to hide behind a “handle” such as “Caper” If we feel strongly about an idea or issue, then we should be willing to show how we would Vote on the issue. Stop hiding behind anonymity.
On the case to digital democracy, one of the problems I see is the willingness to hide behind a “handle” such as “Caper” If we feel strongly about an idea or issue, then we should be willing to show how we would Vote on the issue. Stop hiding behind anonymity.
By Caper on 11.16.08 7:49 pm
Absolutely right. If you can make the comment and do not stand up for it you are not to be counted. Just another troll. This goes for all who post anonymously. If you say, it stand up for it.
Garth,
In the course of human events, history shows that many are called to act as a Guide, a Prophet of sorts, that shines a light on the True Path. I think you are one of those.
Unfortunately, their time is usually short, but their effect forvever. Be proud that you were called, and be ready for the next time, O Wise One who has trod the path of Truth!
Quite a difference between the PMO’s approach and Obama’s weekly podcasts, isn’t there….
My hope is that you will start your own party and represent the people as it was intended.Canadians are starving for this there is no hope with our present Governments most Canadians have totally lost interest and given up.I agree we entering a whole different world,with the internet we can -if interested find out just about anything–the potential is unlimited. The people of Canada need a leader like you.
By john on 11.16.08 7:38 pm
John, I think that the message is that political parties are about to become dinosaurs and not necessary. It is my opinion that Garth is right, and that future politicians will be elected as independents that will band together in groups in the House and elect their own leader from time to time. Affiliations will be more fluid and transitory. the digital democracy genie is indeed out of the bottle!
Garth, you made the right decisions and moves, but regardless it was a between a rock and a hard place!
What the current crop in Ottawa probably do not understand is that it is no longer business as usual. With digital means at hand a politician can poll his constituents and with in hours have a clear idea what they will of the people is!
What also many in our World do not understand is that we are on the cusp of a potential economic Hydrogen bomb if corporations are allowed to fail then thousands of employees be thrown onto the unemployment category. How this crisis is handled in the coming weeks will set the tone for many months.
for anyone who faults the big 3 management for their “mismanagement”, just think again. They run a business that provides what buyers want. Just because the public want has changed dramatically is not their fault especially in an industry that needs 3 to 5 years lead time to develop and introduce new product. Frankly they got caught with their plants down! The real problems were in the commodities markets where speculators are allowed to bid and sell futures on energy products. That led to the huge run up in costs, followed by the financials that were deregulated in late 2000 to be traded and bet on like a pari-mutual racetrack. A half dozen or so read it right and walked away with trillions. Is that right? That is what the free market free traders want you to believe.
I don’t and won’t. It is my firm belief that energy supplies should be controlled by government and rationed out reasonably. It is not a communist ideology, but a fair deal for everyone principle. Furthermore, huge bonuses for doing the job that you were hired to do should also be banned. That is obscene and a waste of the resources which we only rent for those few years which we all have to live on this planet. You come into this world bare assed, and bawling and after some four score and ten more or less leave with nearly as little clothing and whimpering. Only a few of us leave with a bang and not all of those are heros! I have never known any of them to take anything with them yet! Grave robbers have proven that many times!
The Control of members by this Prime Minister will continue even with the digital tools we have. —–i strongly disagree “Obama” did it look at the money he raised,he came from nowhere and ended up with more money for his leadership quest than anyone else. Voters came out in droves starving for a change–In Canada we still hope but have no faith in the parties or the old system– we are starving for honest representation –just watch if someone runs offering representation for all people.
Re: By Molly on 11.16.08 7:42 pm
You need to whisper that to LeBlanc. He is at least younger than the other 2 geezers. I’m a geezer, but my adult kids have no interest whatsoever in an x premier and a harvard prof.
………………………………….
GARTH … Girth yer political loins and jump into the Liberal leadership fray using your penchant for “digital democracy” at it’s finest.
I too believe that Dominic LeBlanc is The One to lead the Liberal party into the future, and I urge you to declare your fealty to the next generation of leaders and followers(like you) for the new renewed Liberal party.
Iggy & Bobo are interlopers, pretenders, old flawed fogeys not worthy of the Liberal brand. Lead the way Garth, using your power of digital democracy to state your position and hold your ground in the internet wars that are looming.
Pixels are mightier than the sword …!!!
Udaman, Garth …..!!!!!!!!
Absolutely right. If you can make the comment and do not stand up for it you are not to be counted. Just another troll. This goes for all who post anonymously. If you say, it stand up for it.
By A.R.Wainwright on 11.16.08 8:51 p
I agree, but my family does not! Since I have a unique name, and others post anonamously, I will continue, but I have not always done so in the past. It keeps the peace with in the clan or sept what ever for now!
Garth, you invited everyone into the political process, but the people of Halton didn’t appreciate it. Shame on them. Let’s just see how responsive the Cons will be to them now!
I edit a Middle Eastern blog featuring the work of Arab journalism students: Broadcasters of Tomorrow.
While teaching, near Dubai, U.A.E., I occasionally used your blog, and your story, to illustrate the power of new media.
The students were impressed, and I continue to be, by your ongoing understanding of new media and it’s potential role in the public sphere.
I look forward to the book.
Garth, what is your take on this Iggy-Bob Rae kerfuffle?
Do you know yet who you will be voting for? How about putting your hat in the ring? You could elevate the quality of the debate, and unite first of all the Liberals, and then the Liberals and the Greens to become a formidable force, as well as to get the finances of the party in shape through financially sound policies and practices.
You did not lose. You were the victim of circumstance. The losers were us.
You were ahead of your time in a backwards Canada. Look what the webb did for Obama. He understood the power of the webb and used it with great success. What you have started will in a short time become the norm. I also hope you remain in politics. Whether as a sitting member of parliament or a commentator and informer this counrty needs you. Looking forward to your future.
By HARRY S on 11.16.08 9:46 pm
Pls. do not use my post to try and illustrate yours. The difference is obvious. The youth wing, digital democracy, reaching out, grass roots, that was my point in case it totally escaped you.
You know, for the future of the Liberal Party, Dominique LeBlanc just might be the man. Young, Harvard-educated, perfectly bilingual, well-spoken, politically well-connected, experienced MP–without the baggage that Rae and Ignatieff carry. Unfortunately Ignatieff’s team might be too well organized for him to win this time–hence we might have to endure another loss to Harper.
Garth–things you say about representing the people instead of the party makes absolutely no sense to me. Have you done a referendum to find out what you constituents want, or do you just think you know what they want? Or have you just listened to a vocal few and assume that is what most want? Or do you think that since they elected you, you get to vote according to your conscience?
I vote for a party because I vote for their platform, and I know what to expect they will do. Sometimes doesn’t happen and circumstances change, but at least I know what values they stand for.
I occasionally used your blog, and your story, to illustrate the power of new media.
By Keith on 11.16.08 10:47 pm
Nice piece of humour Keith, still lmao thinking `buzz off idiot` could become an international teaching tool.
Besides, Garth lost and yes Garth, I would argue the trash that came across this blog, for eg `how`s things on your planet` could hardly be categorized as digital democracy or win elections. Then promising a plan that would save the environment and the economy and getting the cheerleaders to run interference on questions was a little over the top.
Not complaining, I`ve always said this is a partisan site so you post and expect little.
When we look into where retailers will be over 6 months creating a tsunami of small business bankruptcies perhaps eliminating taxes for self employed small business is really on this planet. The CPC plan released later does nothing for marginal small business which will be on the crest of record numbers of small business failures,,, at twice the cost….
gtg, rockets are warmed up
Note to Jack Layton
Correction on statement `62% of Cdns didn`t vote for the CPC`. In fact it was 8 out of 10 Cdns that didn`t vote for the government we now have. While only 1 in 5 Cdns voted for this government 2 out of 5 voted none of the above.
When will the Elections Canada follow up on the many requests to have `none of the above` on the ballet giving the majority a voice?
WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT to be a politician your governed by a bunch of crooks located in the USA? Canadian politicians are puppets that must obey by the rules of the USA. Be glad your not responsible for the coming carnage! http://www.thecomingdepression.blogspot.com
“But I had to try.”
Similar to “Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.”
There are many who become powerful in defeat or death, because they are the ones who had a vision, took a chance on themselves by trying something new and encouraging future generations to benefit from it.
It doesn’t really matter whether you run again or not. The point is you dared to be different and caused a reaction from those who want the same old dreary slimeballs, so you ultimately won!
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Oz has followed in China’s footsteps — censoring the ‘net.
The NWO (Rothschilds, Rockefellers and their ilk) have no time for freedom of speech, thought, etc., so they use a convenient method to keep us quiet. — http://tinyurl.com/59rck2
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Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
“More sinister than Karl Rove and potentially deadlier than Dick “Darth Vader” Cheney, his name is Rahm Emanuel, and he was recently appointed chief of staff in the president-elect’s White House. This first official act should send waves of alarm through people because Barack Obama promised change, but what we’re getting is the exact same cabal that brought us 9-11 and endless war in the Middle East.” — http://tinyurl.com/69zzm2
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Bond Crash. — Charles Bond Crash! — http://tinyurl.com/6a3spb
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Remember the Northcom Vigilant Shield? Here’s more! — http://tinyurl.com/5lmlw6
Well, success in Parliament may not be your thing, but speaking wisely and being a respected author must have some redeeming qualities, right? I think the only thing that may have been played better is that you’d have remained in Harper’s caucus long enough to cross the floor after his Halloween lie. That would have proven to be a major headline, and you even more of a headache for the integrity-free fop.
Garth:
Although your detractors would have difficulty believing it, you have given me hope. Hope that one day soon the House of Commons will fulfill its purpose represent us commoners once more. You’ve provided tonic for my brain, delving into the inner workings of Parliament with a refreshing no-nonsense style. Above all, you’ve inspired many to become involved in the political process. The value of this cannot be overstated–quite simply, you are an agent of anti-apathy. A commendable thing in this current world, to be sure.
I sincerely hope that you stick around. You have some revolutionary ideas and these are valuable. Whatever your next move, I will be waiting… at your service. Thank you for your dedication and hard work.
Chris
HARRY S (11.16.08 9:46 pm)
For once, Harry, I have to agree with your views on the leadership situation. Well said.
A dozen Garth Turners would breed parliamentary mayhem. But one is invaluable. I well remember, during the Mulroney Years, when Garth ran for the leadership of the then PC Party, and gave by far the best speech during the nominating procedures.He was a cabinet minister at the time, and a good one. I also recall his long years as the best financial columnist, first on the Tely and later in the Sun. His is a valuable voice that must not be stilled. He may be a rebel, but he’s no rebel without a cause, even if he pursues his objectives without a pause. I hope you don’t give up and allow yourself to be silenced. Peter C. Newman, Richmond Hill.
Garth, it turns out there really wasn’t much difference in personality between PMSH and Mr. Dion. You lost this particular battle, but in the long run it may simply have freed you up for the war that is coming. The digital war.
Failure is not trying… you may have caused Harper’s defeat when the dust settles.. M. Dion Green Shift still remains a hot topic… sometimes, most times it is the messenger as much as it is the message. To-day as the auto industry is bending in the winds all talk is about greener cars and green power to feed them. Please continue as you see fit, independents that run for office are truly responsible to those who take the time and effort to mark an X in their favour our party system just may have seen it’s best days. Change is coming because the 40-50% who stayed home rather than vote will find a way to have their say…..
Well, I see Iggy is still being his usual icky self. Good, maybe the Liberal Party will come to see that as dinosaurs of Old School Politics they are resurrecting cadavers for leaders.
I like Bob Rae a lot. He at least is human, not like Ignatieff who looks and acts like an escapee from ‘Night of The Living dead!’
So, when Iggy wins the next time I vote it will be for the NDP and Jack layton who has some semblance of connectivity to the real people in Canada.
Oh, what’s that rumour? Paul Martin may return? Now that could be a most delightful event.
I will just watch what they do, because it will most likely just be doo doo again!
Oh, almost forgot, when we get a real democratic system that replaces FPTP, wake me up!
Ah, and the Circus resumes tomorrow in the House of Clowns!
Experience has convinced me this is what many Canadians want. Parties and leaders who demand unquestioning acceptance of dogmatic positions are doomed. No one, not even a prime minister, can put this back in the bottle.
Posted by Garth Turner on 11.16.08 @ 7:01 pm
Look at Howard Dean, former Governor of Vermont. His fundraisers, a $ here, a $ there, permitted him to be a significant early contender.
VAN SUSTEREN, DIRK EDITOR
Howard Dean: A Citizen’s Guide to the Man Who Would Be President
South Royalton, Vermont,
Steerforth Press. 2003, Stated 1st Edition
1586420755 Paperback
Who would have raised the Income Trust grievances, had it not been for your good self, Brent Fullard, Diane Francis and Esther Shaye?
Personally, I think, if you get yourself a ‘sensible’ pair of shoes, you would be an excellent walk-on Keynote Speaker. I also think 30 Helens would agree with me on that!
As the current economic situation worsens, and I am certain it will, you would be an excellent ‘go-to’ guy, to sound out the electorate on the failings of the current government.
I think Bob Rae is bang-on … The Liberal Party is NOT a club.
30 Helens [AGREE]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDTZcj8Xink
It’s a Fact—you have to be careful of my Martha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-_UChElOho
1. He may be a rebel, but he’s no rebel without a cause, even if he pursues his objectives without a pause.
2. I hope you don’t give up and allow yourself to be silenced. Peter C. Newman, Richmond Hill.
By Peter C. Newman on 11.17.08 6:26 am
1. Great Tribute and rhyming couplet from Mr. Newman.
2. Drawn from the Newman namesake. A fearless, non-egocentric, individual. I give you Alfred … who should be incorporated into your logo.
http://debbyestratigacos.mu.nu/archives/Alfred%20E.%20Newman.gif
Greetings, Garth. Thank you. I’m finding the time to read you again, and so happy to see the friends I made here, because of you, and the synergy and the power…keep on keepin’ on. linda.
By HARRY S on 11.16.08 9:46 pm
http://multimedia.thestar.com/images/6e/60/3d0b0e6c4dde9007bc36ee1fafc1.jpeg
I think Bob Rae is bang-on … The Liberal Party is NOT a club.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 11.17.08 10:02 am,
All political parties are private clubs. To be a member you must pay a membership fee and the party has the right to deny any Canadian citizen membership in the party. There are regulations that deny people membership under certain conditions. For example, if I am the member of another party provincially I cannot be a member of the federal Liberal Party. It is the reality even if you don’t want to think about your specific party as a private club.
Your analysis of what people want is perhaps right.
But the system is so twisted, I really have to question whether digital democracy stands a chance. Let’s say the PM’s blackberry burns up with complaints when Quebec finally decides to leave.
Do you think a PM (particularly one from Quebec) would respond to citizen complaints particularly at the beginning of a five year term-of-office?
The whole Canadian political system is built to keep the folks down, and ignore the clattering masses. Especially when a government is in a majority situation.
By Caper on 11.16.08 7:49 pm
Absolutely right. If you can make the comment and do not stand up for it you are not to be counted. Just another troll. This goes for all who post anonymously. If you say, it stand up for it.
By A.R.Wainwright on 11.16.08 8:51 pm
Well said
Very insightful and refreshing to see a politician be able to appraise himself with such honesty!
Garth you remain a True Progressive and don’t ever change.You will always have my respect and support whether you chose to take another run at Politics or not.Too bad the people of Halton were too lost in Partianship to see how very hard you worked for us. It’s thier Loss not yours I am still Proud that I voted for you and I hope to be able to do so again in the furture,until then much Success and Happiness for you,your Family and Friends.
By Caper on 11.16.08 7:49 pm
Absolutely right. If you can make the comment and do not stand up for it you are not to be counted. Just another troll. This goes for all who post anonymously. If you say, it stand up for it.
By A.R.Wainwright on 11.16.08 8:51 pm
Well said
By Tim Pellett on 11.17.08 11:56 am
Have any of you ever experienced harassment because someone who disagreed with you somehow managed to get your contact information? Once that happens you might change your mind.
Bill-Muskoka,
Ignatieff who looks and acts like an escapee from ‘Night of The Living dead!’
I say more like Norman Bates and Rae has just booked into the Motel.
When will the Elections Canada follow up on the many requests to have `none of the above` on the ballet giving the majority a voice?
By system failure on 11.17.08 1:32
this is ludicrous and impossible. None of the above does not register and cannot sit in Parliament. Yours is a anarchist plot to allow a very few to become a ruling tyranny. A much better alternative would be to have an open box to print in a write in candidate of ones choice which given a concerted coalition of local citizens can and will return power to the people. Your None of the Above is just a crappy cop out idea! It is dead in the water, face down.
Ask any Newfie what is black, purple, and blue, floating upside down in Placentia Bay? And he/she will tell you that it is the Last Mainlander to come to this Rock telling Newfie Jokes!
I think your downfall was hooking your wagon to a party still reeling from corruption and scandal. Also many of your supporters probably interpreted your move as treasonous. I know you said it’s more effective to work the system from the inside but if you truly answered to the people a run as an independent would’ve been more believable.
Hopefully more and more MPs will be independent and answer to the people rather than a party. Hopefully you’ll run again whenever that might be but under your own banner.
By Caper on 11.16.08 7:49 pm
Absolutely right. If you can make the comment and do not stand up for it you are not to be counted. Just another troll. This goes for all who post anonymously. If you say, it stand up for it.
By A.R.Wainwright on 11.16.08 8:51 pm
Well said
By Tim Pellett on 11.17.08 11:56 am
Have any of you ever experienced harassment because someone who disagreed with you somehow managed to get your contact information? Once that happens you might change your mind.
By C. B. Innes on 11.17.08 1:08 pm
Ya I have his name is Tony Clement
I can’t wait for this book to come out.
In the meantime, many of the themes of Garth’s digital democracy may be found in Seth Godin’s newest book – Tribes.
I am still hopeful that you will return to politics, if not here in Halton than elsewhere. Parliament is going to need fresh ideas and new approaches to weather this storm.
Keep up the good work!
Garth,
You say, “Yet my relationship with the leader of my new party [Mr. Dion] was more than once strained and stretched to the point of snapping” and you describe “the hesitancy and principled reticence” of Mr. Dion. Details! Details! Glad I didn’t vote for the guy.
By Truth B Told on 11.17.08 1:28 pm
None of the above, I believe, appears on the German ballot, and it is illegal not to vote. A result of the absent vote allowing Hitler to come to power, I understand.
A World Economic Meltdown inspires Feast OF The Epicureans…
Menu for the Dinner in Honor of the Summit on Financial Markets and the World Economy
Buuuuuuuuuuuuurpppppppp
I want to thank the taxpayer for paying for this deeeeelicious wine and vitlins spread. It’s might generous of you. Mighty, especially considering these disastrous economic times.
Buuuuuuuuuuuuurpppppppp
There is also the example of Bob Nardelli, Chairman and CEO of Chrysler. He left Home Depot under a cloud in late 2006 or early 2007 after investors became concerned about his management. He took with him a compensation package of something around $210 million (one source gives it as $240 million).
On August 5, 2007 he was appointed to head of Chrysler. Since this is now a private company no one really knows what compensation he is receiving.
chaaaaaaaaaaarge it…..
Financial Crisis Tab 4.2 Trillion
$4,284,500,000,000 and counting
http://www.cnbc.com/id/27719011
(CNBC)
buuuuuuurp…George thanks taxpayers
Check out their slideshow for a comparison to past Big Budget items.
None of the above, I believe, appears on the German ballot
By James – Chatham on 11.17.08 3:39 pm
Considering the majority of Cdns voted none of the above over any of the Parties it seems unconstitutional not to have the peoples choice on the ballot. Elections Canada is coming under pressure to put it on, then we`ll hear from the democratic majority, not the communists that want to keep it off to protect `the system`.
Elections Canada is coming under pressure to put it on, then we`ll hear from the democratic majority, not the communists that want to keep it off to protect `the system`.
By system failure on 11.17.08 5:05 pm
Maybe. Even with “none of the above” on the ballot, I suspect the majority of those who didn’t vote will do the same in the future, due to their indifference to the system.
I would vote none of the above in any election if a box was provided. The last 3 federal elections have inspired me to vote for the best of the worst, in our riding. If that is not some sort of pathetic attempt at democracy, then voting none of the above would be of little difference. Provincially we are in the same boat. We have 2 main parties, and the Greens on the fringes. Put all 3 up on a dart board, and which ever I hit first gets my vote. Again, voting none of the above would be of little difference in my scientific method of choosing who to vote for. Also, who and what party bothers me the least has weight on my voting decision as well.
None of the above, I believe, appears on the German ballot
By James – Chatham on 11.17.08 3:39 pm
Considering the majority of Cdns voted none of the above over any of the Parties it seems unconstitutional not to have the peoples choice on the ballot. Elections Canada is coming under pressure to put it on, then we`ll hear from the democratic majority, not the communists that want to keep it off to protect `the system`.
By system failure on 11.17.08 5:05 pm
Applying some other country’s poorly constructed situation to avoid the real issue is utter compound bull crap! Use some intelligence and approach the problem with a constructive solution, not a vacuous non starter!
By dldsse on 11.17.08 3:19 pm
Details? Are you new here? Garth made a big boo boo when M. Dion was launching his Green Shift campaign in Calgary last summer. It was Garth’s fault for not thinking through his NEP and Quebecois comments on the blog the same day – old news dude. We here chastised him and of course the Leader expressed his disdain for the same reason.
Now let’s stay on topic – Garth is a lightning rod but he is honest. He actually does not do politics spin. Garth takes a stand – right or wrong.
No one was more disappointed he lost his seat than me and I live on the opposite end of the country. He got me interested enough to work on the campaign in my riding – all through digital democracy.
I suspect the majority of those who didn’t vote will do the same in the future, due to their indifference to the system.
By James – Chatham on 11.17.08 5:10 pm
Not sure if `suspect` is a strong enough reason not to hear from the majority in a democratic country.
Have any of you ever experienced harassment because someone who disagreed with you somehow managed to get your contact information? Once that happens you might change your mind.
By C. B. Innes on 11.17.08 1:08 pm
Bang on C.B….why do you think I did not post during the election period!
truth be told 1:28pm
Done right, none of the above would be the answer everybody is looking for when it comes to electoral change.
It would require manditory voting and if a riding voted none of the above then NONE OF THE CANDIDATES OR PARTIES INVOLVED IN THE FIRST BALLOT CAN RUN IN THE SECOND BY-ELECTION 8 WEEKS LATER! After all none of the above means just that. This would change party strategy where they will think twice about running candidates in ridings they have no hope to win which means that in most ridings no more than two of the left leaning parties will run thus not splitting the vote so much. Of course the second vote wuld have to be fpp to end the whole process.
Looking back at the last election, how many seats would the conservatives have lost if only 1 or 2 of the other parties were competing against them?
What if the NDP only ran candidates in the 6 or so ridings in Quebec they had a chance to win? Chances are half of the Quebec seats would have gone to by-elections and they might have gained as many as twenty seats as a result.
Most of the reform voters out west didn’t vote quite safely in protest of Harper moving to far to the center. What would have happened if many of those seats went none of the above and the Liberals had not run many candidates the first time?
None of the above is the most powerful tools that a voter can have and would force all candidates to fight elections on policy rather than personal differences. Leaders would be far less important and decorum in and out of parliament would be noted. and finally attack ads and ads presenting false images like the cons used the last election would be suicidal as the voter will finally have a way of addressing that sort of stupidity.
I look forward to reading your new political book. The sample that you provide is very intriguing.
“For example, if I am the member of another party provincially I cannot be a member of the federal Liberal Party.”
By C. B. Innes on 11.17.08 11:20 am
Actually, that is not true. One can be a member of any provincial party and still be a member of the federal Liberal Party (for example, I am a member of both the Alberta PC Party and the federal Liberal party). The provincial and federal Liberal parties are separate entities. However, as stated in the federal Liberal Party’s constitution, one cannot be a member of more than one federal party at the same time.
NONE OF THE CANDIDATES
After all none of the above means just that.
Ben on 11.17.08 6:27 pm
The sole purpose of voting none of the above is non-confidence in the system, literally, none of the above. With a majority vote the old decayed and corrupt system would be replaced with one of the many previous suggestions the majority feels would produce more than little or no work done.
From today’s “The Twilight Zone” front page . . .
****************************************
Last year I replaced all the windows in my house with that expensive double-pane energy efficient kind, and today, I got a call from the contractor who installed them.
He was complaining that the work had been completed a whole year ago and I still hadn’t paid for them.
Hellloooo . . . just because I’m blonde doesn’t mean that I am automatically stupid.
So, I told him just what his fast talking sales guy had told me last year, that in ONE YEAR these windows would pay for themselves!
Helllooooo? I told him it’s been a year!
There was only silence at the other end of the line, so I finally just hung up. He never called back.
Guess I won that stupid argument.
Bet he felt like an idiot.
****************************************
And now, a short story for bedtime to keep us all warm and snuggly. . .
G-20 Meets, Dines in DC, Does Nothing to Save the World Economy
President Bush hosted the G-20 summit — the official menu included fruitwood-smoked quail, thyme-roasted rack of lamb and baked Vermont brie with walnut crostini, along with three wines . . .
More than a quarter million U.S. households received a foreclosure filing in October. A total of 279,561 properties got a default notice, were warned of a pending auction or were foreclosed.
World leaders washed down their quail and lamb with three expensive wines – one Shafer Cabernet “ Hillside Select” 2003 sells at $499 a bottle.
****************************************
Quite understandable that I don’t make any sense to anyone at all, just babble away with bobbleboom and bafflegab. However, here are some interesting links.
http://tinyurl.com/54s2qz http://tinyurl.com/5l8kba
http://tinyurl.com/6at2n5 http://tinyurl.com/6×382o
http://tinyurl.com/5vwvgw http://tinyurl.com/5wkw2g
****************************************
THOUGHT FOR THE DAY! (Courtesy wrh.com)
“Get some new lawyers.” — US Secretary of State Madeline Albright to British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook when he told her he was informed that the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia was illegal under international law
****************************************
It’s a beautiful day in the neighborhood!
Not sure if `suspect` is a strong enough reason not to hear from the majority in a democratic country.
By system failure on 11.17.08 6:05 pm
The point I’m making is that just putting “none of the Above” on the ballot won’t bring the change you talk about. Doing so and making it illegal not to vote, then we’ll hear from everyone in a Democratic Country.
I agree with you, “None of the Above” should be on the ballot!
PS. How about giving a refundable tax credit to those who vote… that’s an incentive and doesn’t have the negative conatation of being fined for not voting?
GARTH: It was always ONLY about GARTH without consideration for anyone else.How could you expect to continue so self centred? It was time to pay up.
Have any of you ever experienced harassment because someone who disagreed with you somehow managed to get your contact information? Once that happens you might change your mind.
By C. B. Innes on 11.17.08 1:08 pm
Well, NO!
I have enough of an open mind to debate with anyone.
I have also been shown other views on an issue and when shown a better view point, amend mine. If I can not do that, my brain is as worthless as my view point.
I also read a LOT.
From many view points, before I form MY OPINION. (Subject to review.)
One of the reasons I can’t stand the “LIAR”. is because I read what he wrote Y-e-a-r-s ago in the “Western Reporter.”
A very far right publication.
By Ben on 11.17.08 6:42 pm,
That must be a change because I checked a couple of years ago and it was prohibited in the Liberal Constitution because the federal and provincial Liberal Parties were not separate entities. The federal and provincial PC Parties were separate.
By C. B. Innes on 11.16.08 7:27 pm
CB – I don’t quite share your POV. There are times when internal business has to be discussed and discussing it in front of the media would seriously dampen openess among the participants. It would be very easy to create an appearance of openess and discuss fluff in front of the media but, really, there are times when privacy is required.
I don’t think that it’s a stretch to say that there is more going in backrooms than is publicized – and this I would say would be true of all parties.
Personally, I could do without all of the Rae-Ignatieff bickering. If they have a problem with each other, it should stay within the party and not broadcast for all to see. It cheapens the party and it weakens its image. As a CPC supporter, I’m not unhappy with a weakened Liberal party but, at the same time, I’d like to see some sort of decorum. All of this bickering is the stuff of schoolyards.
with regard to your post: By C. B. Innes on 11.17.08 4:27 pm, all I can say is Holey Moley. That is beyond comprehension. Where did I go wrong in my career choice? I have never had a position which would pay me an obscene amount of money for screwing up. What kind of world do we inhabit where bad managers are rewarded for screwing up? And the big three want a handout? Good grief. This is so beyond the pale.
By wjp on 11.17.08 6:14 pm
Ditto…
Sorry, but anonymity on the internet holds merits.
By Ben on 11.17.08 6:42 pm,
I checked the Liberal Constitution and you are correct that you can be a member of the federal party without being a member of the provincial party but it appears not as a full voting member.
If you look at Chapter 14 Article 3 of the Constitution it seems to indicate that unless you are a member of a PTA (Provincial and Territorial Association) you “may not vote at any meeting held under this Constitution (including delegate selection and candidate selection meetings) or on the Leadership vote.”
That suggests that unless you are a member of both the federal and provincial parties you are only some kind of associate member.
“None of the above”???!!!
C’mon folks, much of what I am reading sounds like excuses to not get out there and vote. There are definite options for the disenfranchised voter.
Dare I say:
Rhino – if you think the system is a bit of a joke.
Marijuana – if you are against the present prohibition and jailing of youth for not drinking alcohol.
Libertarian – “just leave me alone!!!”
Independant – “none of the above parties”.
I might agree to a write-in space, as I believe this was/is on the American presidential ballot. (Apparently Mickey Mouse came in second once…)
“None of the above” is a little to anarchistic to me.
Although this was interesting…
By W. D. on 11.17.08 6:15 pm
- not sure about financial impact of several elections, length of time without representation during the process, etc…
Once that happens you might change your mind.
By C. B. Innes on 11.17.08 1:08 pm
C.B., I’ve had that happen a few times, for me, it just makes me more determined. We can’t let fear make us take a back seat and not express our ideas. Can you imagine how different this world would be if people were afraid to stand up and shout out ‘this needs to change!? Be proud of the fact that you think, always consider the source of critics and don’t let anyone who would wish you to be silent, make you feel less than you know you are. Face them, look them in the eye and tell them to go to hell. L
To C. B. Innes (11.17.08 11:20 am)
Political parties are not private clubs. They are heavily subsidized by the public purse and adhere to strict guidelines as laid out in the law. While they could choose to conduct most of their business behind close doors, this would run contrary to the democratic principles upon which most of the major parties were founded.
By Leasa on 11.17.08 8:53 pm,
You don’t post under your full name either so what is your point? I don’t really believe that you have faced the kind of intimidation that some people have faced. One case that I found especially troubling was when someone’s children ended up bearing the brunt of the abuse. There are all kinds of the warped people lurking on the internet.
Garth if you were elected how would you have voted on the GM bailout? Yay or Nay..I would say NAY..The US Government is now saying NO here…?
http://www.thecomingdepression.blogspot.com
By cms on 11.17.08 9:17 pm,
They are private clubs created to control government and they are not particularly democratic in their operation. More and more their operations are behind closed doors. Because most party members are there for the game and are merely unthinking partisans they are easily manipulated by a small group at the center.
The fact that the major parties are government funded does not mean that they are public. There are many private organizations that receive government funding. The legal guidelines they have to follow relate to funding in order to be registered. Beyond those requirements the law is not really strict because the courts are reluctant to enforce the letter of the law.
Political parties, especially the major parties, are privileged private clubs.
Good bye System Failure, hello Rope!
I think what happened to you, Mr. Garth, will deter candidates from being outspoken. M. Dion was very patient with a lot of the candidates including you. You have to admit You knew some of the posts would be controversial.
Anyone catch last week’s Fifth Estate? Too bad they didn’t air it during the election, would have given people a better idea of how green shift would have worked.
Mr. Buffett uses the economic term ‘intergenerational inequities’ in his Nov 10, 2003 article for Fortune, the pdf is on the website, to describe the debt that will be inherited by future generations. The very thought makes me want to go out and kick every senior in the shins but that won’t solve anything will it? They got to drink all the good whiskey and now, the morning after, the kids have to clean up the puke. Thank you.
Garth,
Kudos to you for your insight, honesty and caring. In my eyes, you are presently Canada’s most honourable successful citizen.
And let me just say: Harper was so pre-occupied with beating you, that he blanketed your riding with borrowed manpower and funds — you ARE one of the big cogs in the wheel that kept that man from a majority.
Bravo and huge thanks.
I saw Dominic LeBlanc commenting on the news yesterday, and you know what? He looks like the next PM to me.
In May I went to my very first ever political dinner. I said to my hubby, “We can support Mr. Dion AND get food too, what’s not to like”.
It so happened Dominic was the speaker. He came over to our table and introduced himself. My thoughts at the time: I sized him up and figured he’d make a great PM. His speech was very well-delivered, the guy is personable, he’s smart.. what’s not to like. I look forward to getting to know him.
Go Green,
I thought I was the only one who remembers Barbara Damrosch & Eliot Coleman from 20 years ago.
I loved that show!!
Does anyone feel duped by the big damned “D” (deficit) suddenly becoming reasonable and responsible, by international demand, no less? Well, you shouldn’t have put your trust in lying bastards whose only interest was saving their political necks over the short term.
Sorry, Garth, it’s going to take more than a few more federal elections to put the boots to our current system of electioneering-by-lying. Partisanship may be transferred from parties to individuals such as yourself, but digital democracy won’t change the mechanics of how we elect or are governed. What it will do is provide what is missing now: a source of information in addition to propaganda, and a voice for those who care to speak. We can find out, we can see, we can ask, and we can vote on the basis of that information vice what we are “sold”. In short, digital democracy will change voters, and that is what is going to put the liars out of business over the very long term.
Just remember that prophets are never honoured in their own countries (or political homes).
By W. D. on 11.17.08 6:15 pm
Your logic is seriously flawed. If 90% vote none of the above, then 10% vote for some candidates and then you have a government run by a very tiny mandate and not worried about what they do because they won by default. The whole argument is both pointless and ridiculous. Wake up and smell the coffee! Mandatory voting is a violation of freedom of choice, plus an insult to the integrity of democracy. Take a few lessons in logic and psychology before babbling about such an insane premise.
Does anyone feel duped by the big damned “D” (deficit) suddenly becoming reasonable and responsible, by international demand, no less?
By Herb on 11.17.08 11:31 pm
I don’t feel duped – because I knew the SOB was lying when he promised no deficit.
Again – we hoist our largesse onto our kids and grandkids. – and for what? to save a cent on coffee, spend it on a wasteful war in a country that we will never win, or bailing out companies that deserve to fail for their lack of foresight or common sense. There are many ways available to us before stealing from our kids.
As to “forceful voting” – I hate to say it, but voting is a right, and a priviledge – and those that don’t vote are excerising their right not to. As much as I disdain it, and feel that those that don’t vote do themselves and their country a dis-service, forcing people to vote would only compound the problem. I’d rather someone not vote, than vote un-inform-idly (I know – it’s not a word).
Garth,
Not sure how you’re going to take this? But being confrontational isn’t always the best way to get things done. There is such a thing as diplomacy which you appear to disdain, but most people prefer sugar rather than vinegar.
Garth, you posses many admirable qualities and should continue in politics, but my advice is tone down the rhetoric, both online and in person.
Did my part during my working years to right the wrongs of women’s inequality in the workplace. Did have to wait until society no longer condoned the massive amount of inequality between the two. There still is much work that needs doing, which my daughter is pursuing as a bank manager. Yes, there still is an ‘old boy’s club’ that needs eliminating. But that won’t come about until society is ready to accept that women and men are equals.
No, there never was any point to being confrontational in the pursuit of it–just baby steps toward change. I started work as a clerk-typist in 1958 being overseen in a male glass menagerie where ‘males’ were the only bosses who expected females to be their mothers rather than co-workers. All that would have happened at that time had I protested was lose my job. I elected to be more patient and was rewarded by being hired to progressively jobs with more responsibility and raises in pay. It wasn’t until the 1980s that I could finally refuse to make coffee!
There’s a time and a place to be ‘in people’s faces’ and you were ahead of the time. That doesn’t mean you should quit…just bad timing on your part. The future needs people like you…please don’t ever QUIT or retire from politics! Just modify your approach that more closely approaches what people are ready for and you’ll be rewarded handsomely.
Political parties, especially the major parties, are privileged private clubs.
By C. B. Innes on 11.17.08 10:18 pm
100% agreement. The mere fact that one has to pay to run for party leader or to run as a candidate shuts out quite a few people, I would imagine. That’s the least of the membership requirements, in my opinion.
By C. B. Innes on 11.17.08 10:05 pm
C.B., of course it is your privilege to believe or not believe me. I won’t go into detail here. I have nothing to prove. However, I would suggest you should take the ‘rest of my message’ to heart. Even though more often than not, I do not agree with your politics, I do think you should be proud of who you are and the fact that others can see by your words that you are intelligent and articulate. You should not allow yourself to be intimidated. L
World leaders washed down their quail and lamb with three expensive wines – one Shafer Cabernet “ Hillside Select” 2003 sells at $499 a bottle.
This is outrageous, but hasn’t had much coverage on the news (just the Daily Show).
—————–
Did anyone else see the news story about the word “meh” now being in the dictionary? The news story said it is a word being used to describe Canadian politics–boring. I tend to agree. It was fascinating watching the American election and everything leading up to it. Our politics are dry as dust…thank goodness for Garth, who keeps it interesting.
————–
Re: whether to use your full name, first name or a “handle”… I’m not about to reveal my last name when I know that I could be identified and targeted by political party hacks who read Garth’s blog. As someone said earlier, anonymity has its merits.
I actually disagree with why you weren’t elected, Garth. I live in Halton and I voted for you. I believed that you would make a difference.
However – I did it in spite of Stephane Dion. I never ever thought he was the right choice for leader of the Liberal party and I think most Canadians agreed. Most people I know vote for the party, not the candidate. (and in fact until now, I’ve done that, too.) If you’d had a leader that Canadians could actually see as Prime Minister, I think you would be in Ottawa today.
Voting is the DUTY of every citizen. It is not merely an arbitrary right to be exercised if you feel like it. That is what a Democracy is. The ancient Greeks enforced it very firmly. If you did not vote you were charged.
All immigrants who become Canadian Citizens are taught and tested on the subject. Even the Government of Canada defines voting as a DUTY!.
All immigrants who become Canadian Citizens are taught and tested on the subject. Even the Government of Canada defines voting as a DUTY!.
By Bill-Muskoka (not anymore) on 11.18.08 9:21 am
Not only is it a Duty, its a Priviledge.
something many new Canadians relish because they’ve never been able to do so in their former country. And they treat voting accordingly.
OTTAWA — Lawyer Richard Dearden withdrew Monday from representing Prime Minister Stephen Harper in his $3.5-million defamation case against the Liberals for alleging that he knew of an attempted bribe of the late Independent MP Chuck Cadman.
Dearden confirmed that he informed the court and Liberal party counsel, Chris Paliare, of his decision to withdraw from the case during a teleconference call Monday with Justice Charles Hackland.
Dearden, counsel with the Gowlings law firm, declined to cite his reasons, saying that is privileged information.
Paliare said Dearden did not state the reasons during the conference call. But he said there are generally two grounds on which lawyers withdraw from a case. One is if they are not paid, which is inconceivable in this case. The other is if there is a breakdown in the lawyer-client relationship which makes it inappropriate for the lawyer to continue the work.
——- Guess he just woudn’t listen huh steve?
It is being reported that the lawyer for Stephen Harper in his defamation suit against the Liberals has quit.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081117.wharper1118/BNStory/politics/home
The G20 Feast of the Epicureans brings to mind E.A. Poe’s story “The Masque of the Red Death”. The elite party the night away with good food and drink while a plaque rages outside the castle walls.
The problem is that we forget that these are our elected employees, paid by the taxpayer. they are not Royalty. They are not Monarchs.
The public loves to make them into celebrity figureheads. It all starts with the grand Inaugaration Balls and the Parade. Nightly prime time programs feed the public with every nuance of their lives right down to their dogs.
Politicians are easily swayed by applause and adoration of the crowd. They quickly forget that the public is not realy cheering them, instead they are rooting for a change, apromise, a glimmer of hope, a possibility of salvation for their families and self.
Rare is the politician that ignores the glitzy glamour and trappings of the position and gets down to work to do exactly was promised to those that elected them.
Mr. Prime Minister, you promised us “no deficit”. How long did that last?
Getting on with digital democracy, all should be aware that the Romper Room phase of the HofC is history. We are about to enter the spectacular three-ring circus stage!
Just look at some of the trained seal contenders for the ring-master/Speaker job Kady O’Malley has published at http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/11/17/the-race-for-kingsmere-behold-the-final-sixteen-are-you-kidding-me/
Dean del Mastro? David Tilson? Be sure to tune in at 1000 EST to catch the opening act on http://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/parlvu/ContentEntityDetailView.aspx?ContentEntityId=3772
C.B., I have heard tell of honest and realistic lawyers. There actually might be some!
Rare is the politician that ignores the glitzy glamour and trappings of the position and gets down to work to do exactly was promised to those that elected them.
By PTDBD on 11.18.08 10:08 am
Don’t forget, this is the Prime Minister who cut arts funding because he couldn’t stomach seeing glitzy parties at taxpayers expense.
“Let them eat cake, he said, just like Marie Antoinette!”
Garth – the interactive election campaign was really energizing, even though you weren’t running in my riding. It must have been quite and experience for you, too, after having gone through the old-style ones. I hope there’s more of this. We simply can’t go back to the “vote for me and then shut up for 4 to 5 years” style anymore. Things are getting too critical.
—–
Anonymity on the net? I have to agree with Thruth B Told and C.B. Innes. One scary incident is enough.
I also have a unique name. It’s not the net attacks so much but the personal ones that can scare the liver out of you.
People who had Liberal lawn signs in Toronto (and some elsewhere, I think) had their cars keyed, their tires slashed or their brake lines cut. One car whose brakes had been disabled had child seats clearly visible in the back.
I doubt very much if it was NDP or Green supporters who did it.
I won’t be sticking a “Don’t blame me. I voted Liberal” sign on my car anytime soon, either.
—
The Prime Minister being dropped by his defamation lawyer?
Priceless.
For everything else, there’s MasterCard.
—–
Be proud of the fact that you think, always consider the source of critics and don’t let anyone who would wish you to be silent, make you feel less than you know you are. Face them, look them in the eye and tell them to go to hell. L
By Leasa on 11.17.08 8:53 pm
That is great if you know who they are, what do you do when they are answering your posts using nicknames of your own family members? And believe mw, it wasn’t them!!!
That is great if you know who they are, what do you do when they are answering your posts using nicknames of your own family members? And believe mw, it wasn’t them!!!
By wjp on 11.18.08 11:57 am
WJP, do some detective work. Think about people who you have mentioned Garth’s blog to, someone who has the knowledge of your family’s nics. It’s not a family member, that I do believe, so it is someone who knows your family. Perhaps extended family? Look closely with what they posted using those family member’s nics, do you recall having any conversation ‘like that’? If they have not stopped putting these posts out there, read them carefully maybe even get family to help track down the source. It’s not just someone who reads Garth’s blog, it is obviously someone who knows your family. Also, if they were threatening in any way and made it clear that they know who you are and where your family is, do not hesitate to call the police.
Good luck…L
Anonymity on the net? I have to agree with Truth B Told and C.B. Innes. One scary incident is enough.
I also have a unique name. It’s not the net attacks so much but the personal ones that can scare the liver out of you.
People who had Liberal lawn signs in Toronto (and some elsewhere, I think) had their cars keyed, their tires slashed or their brake lines cut. One car whose brakes had been disabled had child seats clearly visible in the back.
I doubt very much if it was NDP or Green supporters who did it.
I won’t be sticking a “Don’t blame me. I voted Liberal” sign on my car anytime soon, either.
—
The Prime Minister being dropped by his defamation lawyer?
Priceless.
For everything else, there’s MasterCard.
Anonymity (sp?) on the net. Unfortunately, I have to agree. What one says can come home to haunt you. We’ve certainly seen it during the last election. How many candidates were forced to withdraw for statements they made years ago. How many people have been ‘outed.’ by partisan bigots for their views.
Garth’s blog regenerated my activism and I, like Bonnie in BC and, perhaps, Barb the Proofreader, encouraged me to become involved, physically & mentally, in the last election.
I must admit, tho I am sad to say so, that after recounting to my husband about brake lines being cut in a few cities in Canada, candidates offices & properties being vandalized, my husband called the local PC party here and had their candidate place a sign in front of our property, along with my Lib sign. I was extremly upset that he had ‘given’ in to opposition reprehensible tactics’. And, he comes from a country that protests. I parked my car on the street in front of the CRAP candidate sign. In the end, he voted for the Lib candidate because he doesn’t agree with Harper’s ultra right wing policies.
BTW, haven’t kept up, but when are each of the cndidates for Speaker presenting their 5 minute speach to the HoC? Even tho Milliken might be very knowledgeable & intelligent, he has been too weak in applying the rules. I’ve sent emails to him several times this past year. Personally, I’d like to see him go. But when I see Peter van Loon’s running, I cringe.
Woops, I see it is now on CPAC.
NATO is leaking like a sieve. Time to disband the whole damn thing, I think.
“For years an Estonian government official has apparently been collecting the most intimate secrets of NATO and the EU — and passing them on to the Russians. The case is a disaster for Brussels.”
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,590891,00.html
How many MP’s`are in the HoC – 308 or thereabouts. Its taken 1 hr at least to count the 1st vote for S of H. IIUC hose that don’t receive more than 5% of the votes are elimated. At this rate it could go on for hurs & hours. Please correct me if I’m wrong. We’re in the 21st century. Surely, there’s a more efficient system than this?
Peter van Loon’s running, I cringe.
By Go Green on 11.18.08 1:04 pm
Now that would be ironic if he won.
It may also bode well if he did. In the Speaker’s chair, he wouldn’t be able to engage in the petty partisan politics that a party house leader can. Any bias towards the CPC would be evident, and given its a minority government, he would be kicked out of the speaker’s chair pdq. by the opposition parties if he did so.
Truth be told 11:39pm
Several countries like Australia and Germany make voting manditory now so this is not a new concept. When half a countries voters vote against any choice available by not voting like our last election maybe we need to formalize that by making none of the above a choice. Take a look at what you wrote and ask yourself if that does not reflect that only 17% of ELEGABLE voters voted for the governing party last election?
I would suggest that a country would be at civil war before 90% of the population voted none of the above! Even if we had manditory voting last election more than half of the non voters would choose a party over conciously voting none of the above like they did vote.
You missed the whole idea that after the main election their would be byelections in all ridings that chose none of the above 60 or 90 days later with candidates consisting only of independents or any party that didn’t run the first time. If only one candidate comes forward they would be acclaimed! Like a two headed axe, used properly this is a powerful tool but it can always come back to bite you!
I don’t know if this meets your high standards of logic or not but I suspect it is my greater faith in my fellow human beings that clashes with your thinking. While you think everyone would vote this way I believe that after the first election it wuld be a rarely used tool in ridings that have no strong candidates. On the other hand I find it unacceptable that half of Canadians are voting none of the above with no conseqeunce for their actions other than weak governments getting in time after time because there is no need to become stronger to win.
Garth:
Harper and his toadys painted you with the brush of perfidity and they had a lot of help from MSM. Don’t let the b……s get you down. Don’t get mad…get even…get back into the ring at the first opportunity. In the meantime throw bricks(digital and otherwise) at these pestulent predatory parasites…they deserve no less.
But when I see Peter van Loon’s running, I cringe.
Woops, I see it is now on CPAC.
By Go Green on 11.18.08 1:04 pm
He is? I see the list…but I don’t see his name on it. Perhaps I missed something? L
By W. D. on 11.18.08 2:04 pm
In Holland, they do not have mandetory voting but the turn out for the vote is consistently above 90%. Why? Because the people are brought into the process and informed throughout their school years. In schools, they follow politics (non-biased) very closely. My nieces and nephews in Holland can tell you anything you want to know about their process, who is running and what they stand for.
In Canada, I have actually talked to more than a few people who barely know who our Prime Minister is or what any of the issues are. Because they are so sorely uninformed, they simply don’t care. I’ve had people say to me ‘why should I care, they are all crooks anyway’. When I ask them why do you think they are crooks, I always get answers like ‘well, you know, everyone knows politicians are crooks’.
I think it is your basic right not to vote. Not everyone should be pushed to vote IMHO. There is a huge segment of our population that hasn’t watched a news broadcast nor read a paper in their entire lives. If only 50% of the population is willing to become informed and cast a ballot, so be it.
The answer, I really believe is in education. I remember when I was a kid, we had a class called ‘current events’ in the 4th grade. We had to read a newspaper article, bring it to school and discuss it with the class. Sometimes we would be directed as to the kind of story it had to be. I know from my children,t hat they do not do this any longer. Probably because they are afraid of politically incorrect opinion or stories. All schools in this country, should have mandetory political education where the student has to be able to name current members of the House, know the party system and what each party stands for. They should be following upcoming votes in the HoC. They should understand the levels of government and what they do and what each is responsible for.
So, what is the key to voter turn out? Education, education, education.
Just watching Elliot Coleman & his wife Barbara Danrosh from Maine. I used to watch their weekly pgm on PBS Maine yrs ago & learned so much from them. Wondered what ever happened to them. Great to see they are stil around. I still order seeds from Maine – cheap & small quantities for home gardeners. After a few years, I’ve gone back to saving my heirloom tomato seeds.
By Go Green on 11.15.08 5:00 pm
Go Green,
I thought I was the only one who remembers Barbara Damrosch & Eliot Coleman from 20 years ago.
I loved that show!!
By Barb the proofreader on 11.17.08 11:21 pm
My how time flies Barb. Yes, loved that show too. They were ahead of their time in terms of environmental issues and sustainable family gardening – sort of like the old Victory Gardens in England. Sad they no longer have a show on PBS. At that time I used to grow about 500-700 plants downstairs – under lights that my husband set up for me. I’d exchange seeds with various gardeners around the world. Unfortunately, my back problems prohibit me from the type of gardening I did years ago. I’ve ccurtailed my gardening to flowering/everygreen shrubs/trees/bulbs, a few perennial flowers& veggies. Last eve we had the last of swiss chard – a bit tough but delicious, nevertheless. Its been snowing here today, but it melts right away.
Second ballot re Speaker of the House. I think van loon didn’t make during the 1st vote. Can anyone imagine him being a Speaker of the House. Forgot to check what Kady has to say
By Go Green on 11.18.08 3:03 pm,
Van Loan is a full Cabinet Minister replacing Stockwell Day and was never a candidate for speaker. Del Mastro, another unlikely choice, dropped out.
“STOP THE CLOCK” for all those who continue to compare any country in Europe to Canada give your head a shake! Most if not all countries are about the size or less than New Brunswick.. this country called Canada is 5 1/2 times zones has two official languages, very distinctive culture values, a population base smaller than most spread out over it’s vast area with the majority of it population living in only a half dozen major cities. Add to this most if not all Canadians have never stepped foot in more than two or three provinces let alone lived in as many their entire lives…. couple this with a complete polarization of West vs East and mutual dislikes for Ottawa and Toronto and y’all wonder why most Canadians do not care about many things Ottawa does or have only concerns that effect their region only. Are Canadians YES! are we proud of Canada YES, and should we do as other countries do NO! we must have we have for many years do things the Canadian way. unfortunately we have more than many who now think another countries way of doing things is better..
The year is 2008. We have had electronics now for a half century. When will the HoC adapt to the current millenium and install ‘Electronic Vote Counting’ like the U.S. Congress has had for the past 50 years, if not longer?
Sheesh! I guess their egos far exceed their intellects, as usual? It would also eliminate the Cat Calling and RECORD the vote like it SHOULD BE!
Maybe it’s the BELL that they love, like Pavlov’s Dogs?
Please allow me to introduce myself
Im a man of wealth and taste
Ive been around for a long, long year
Stole many a mans soul and faith
And I was round when jesus christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But whats puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
I stuck around st. petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain
I rode a tank
Held a generals rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, whats puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made
I shouted out,
Who killed the kennedys?
When after all
It was you and me
Let me please introduce myself
Im a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached bombay
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But whats puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But whats confusing you
Is just the nature of my game
Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me lucifer
cause Im in need of some restraint
So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or Ill lay your soul to waste, um yeah
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
But whats puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down
Woo, who
Oh yeah, get on down
Oh yeah
Oh yeah!
Tell me baby, whats my name
Tell me honey, can ya guess my name
Tell me baby, whats my name
I tell you one time, youre to blame
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah
Whats me name
Tell me, baby, whats my name
Tell me, sweetie, whats my name
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah
By David Bakody on 11.18.08 4:28 pm
While your stats are correct, the year is 2008. We have neat communications tools like TV, Radio, The Internet, etc., so why can’t Canadians learn about those in other regions? Are we just too lazy to care or act?
Qoops ! Forgot the byline .
Words and lyrics by Me. Michael Jagger and Keith Richards .
“I have enough of an open mind to debate with anyone. I have also been shown other views on an issue and when shown a better view point, amend mine. If I can not do that, my brain is as worthless as my view point. I also read a LOT. From many view points, before I form MY OPINION. (Subject to review.)
One of the reasons I can’t stand the “LIAR” is because I read what he wrote Y-e-a-r-s ago in the “Western Reporter.”
A very far right publication.
BY A.R.WAINWRIGHT ON 11.17.08 8:18 PM
_______________________________
A. R. Wainwright,
Exactly. I also do a lot of reading. Historically I’ve always wanted to know which side has the best ideas. Unfortunately, over that last many years, the real rightwing sold it’s soul. Now, absolutely nothing it’s leadership says can be believed.
And as far as westerners, even just having had access to that publication and others, it’s frustrating that the rest of Canada does not look into “the” Liar’s background. The far right publication you mentioned, the letters and newspaper articles and party papers.. it’s all there, but most voters are too shallow and they do not take their responsibilities in hand.
Reasonable westerners know what he’s up to – we knew and read about him for years.
Canadians have been careless – they did not look into his background. They forgot their responsibility to repel an obvious liar and cheater… [oops... aw shucks, I suppose some would want me to be more politically correct and instead call him a Misleader and an undemocratically narrowed-minded, corporate-lobby-supremacist "Loop hole finder"].
By David Bakody on 11.18.08 4:28 pm
How very true.
However, originating from one of those small European countries; one with twice the population of Canada and would fit between Windsor and Ottawa with room to spare, suggesting Canada should do as Europeans do is because of our history. But more to the point, any such suggestions are in response to and to provide alternatives to Canada becoming more like the US in terms of its values and policies.
..reported that the lawyer for Stephen Harper in his defamation suit against the Liberals has quit.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081117.wharper1118/BNStory/politics/home
BY C. B. INNES ON 11.18.08 10:05 AM
So there IS a LOW to which even lawyers won’t stoop! “I did not know that” as Johnny Carson would say.
When Michael Ignatieff first ran for leadership of the LPC, I seem to remember that he was put forward by David Peterson/en? and that he was backed by the party hierarchy. Actually, I think we need new, fresh thinking and am afraid of outside influences on the old guard.
It seems I always come back to balance.
The state of the economy makes me feel sick for those who have lost their jobs and I hope our leaders will do what they have to in order to get the automotive industry turned around to making quality , low emission cars. When the auto industry does become successful again, they should pay us back — not the visionless CEO’s.
However, the economy should serve the people of a country — not just shareholders and executives. Corporations are only formed to make money — not to improve society, and if we want a healthy society, we have to find ways to keep people connected — so they know they are not alone and that they matter.
I think some Liberals in the hierarchy got a little off-balance. Who will influence policy in the future? What do they believe are top priorities? I know what is important to me and I’d like to know how they are going to address health care and climate change. Both of these issues are issues of our security and as such, I think the federal government should have enough power to see that the transfers are spent on improving the public h.c. system. We don’t want to hear form Harper that health care is in crisis (because of neglect!) and so we must have more privatization, as if that will swell the ranks of the medical profession or give us more spaces for interns or increase operating spaces in the public hospitals, which would be more economical than going to new buildings and pulling staff out of the public system.
Where are the Libs. going now on climate change? I keep hearing forums and reading articles written by the experts who say pretty much what Dion was trying to sell: Put a price on carbon and use the tax system to give incentives to industry and help to the most vulnerable.
This is a terrible time for the impoverished Liberals. The Cons deliberately spent all the money they could so the Libs couldn’t offer any new or improved programs.
At least, for the time being, Harper’s wings have been clipped by the mess we’re in and he will have to play with the big boys and start his speeches with, “As I’ve been saying for a long time…” or “We saw this coming a year ago and we did the important things to
help Canada cope with the world-wide slow down”. Yeah — like cutting the GST, allowing the 40-year, 0-down mortgages roll until July of this year, spending the entire surplus, being the biggest spender in the history of our governments and selling off assets so they could claim they didn’t have a deficit.
So we do need to be ready with a new party philosophy and I am anxious to hear policy discussed.
-Just heard Peter Miliken has been re-elected Speaker of the House. Hope the comments over the summer have stiffened his spine somewhat.
By David Bakody on 11.18.08 4:28 pm
Well, Dave I have to disagree. Holland is a tiny country, yes, but it has a population of 17 million people of all cultures and all races.
I think a progressive democratic country is open to look at what works for others no matter the size. Size isn’t everything, they say.
I think the idea of more political education in our schools, will eliminate almost entirely this voter apathy that we have here today. That’s all.
Leasa
Oh, oh! Two l’s in Milliken. My bad!
Also, am looking forward to both of Garth’s books. We may have to learn some more survival techniques and it will be interesting to see what Garth’s observations have been from the inside.
Whew, Peter Millikin is again speaker of the house. Glad that happened. I was worried the M.P. Barry Devolin would get the job, then all the junkmail he sends out to our riding would cease for sure. Glad he is still an M.P. who can effectivly waste our tax dollars with the rest of them. We know Peter Millikin won’t see to it that the 10%ers are not limited in the amount of volume they can arrive at.
I’d imagine the key to understanding Garth’s adventures in politics is to wait for a, relatively, unbiased telling of the story. Keep in mind that Garth, and anyone else, brings considerable baggage to any telling of what transpired when they’re talking about themselves.
Men With Hats,
Keith Richards said
The most interesting thing about humans is that we have such a strong “denial” response. But, denial allows us to live day to day amongst controversy. There is no devil, he’s just a nickname for d’ evil.. but inventing him was a great way to remind people that evil is everyday.. and to always be cautious. Inventing a god caught on and helped the power leaders and the wealthy to keep the masses in fear. Someone smart realized that the ‘god + fear control tactic’ had become entrenched in culture, and wasn’t about to go away because the naive clenched it so tightly. So to counteract the negative effects of that naivety, a wise person brought in the ‘devil’ concept to at least remind naive people to not let their guard down. Fight fear with fear I suppose. Unfortunately, it’s a wash. Believing in fairy tales is not a safe survival tactic.
Maybe one day.. everyone will just BE smarter, and put evil out of a job, when we all truly pay attention, blame ourselves, take responsibility for our group actions and then demand leaders who are honest, intelligent and good people.
By Go Green on 11.18.08 3:03 pm,
Van Loan is a full Cabinet Minister replacing Stockwell Day and was never a candidate for speaker. Del Mastro, another unlikely choice, dropped out.
By C. B. Innes on 11.18.08 3:41 pm
Excuse me CBI – I’m suffering from CRAFTS disease. I thank you for pointing out my mistakes. I know how intelligent and wise you are. You obviously know everything . I will humbly bow down to you.
Well, I see Peter Millikan has been re-conscripted as Speaker. Another term of Kindergarten Cop would be more accurate.
Ah, another hour gained back from some days which has been, in the past, wasted watching the HoC (House of Children)pretend to be running MY country!
So there IS a LOW to which even lawyers won’t stoop! “I did not know that” as Johnny Carson would say.
By Barb the proofreader on 11.18.08 5:29 pm
More likely that the lawyer wants to have a license after the trial is over. Smart move I think!
Lord luv a duck! 300 million down the drain and we don’t even get a new Speaker out of it. Forget what I said about a three-ring circus. Under Mellifluous Milliken it merely will be a continuation of the Romper Room.
Suggestion for a new Standing Order:
That should get partisanship, ambition, self-importance and the pursuit of perks out of the equation. And you can’t get more democratic than people choosing their leaders. The Speaker gets his perks and status because he is the primus inter paresleader of the whole House, not just Government or Opposition.
Are we just too lazy to care or act?
BY BILL-MUSKOKA (NOT ANYMORE) 18.08 4:43PM
Bill,
Too lazy? Or too busy? Too dumb? Too stubborn or too comfortable? Or is it just volume – too much info? Personally, I love knowing about other places and people, I love to learn and get the facts straight, I love to care, but then I was raised to be that way.
IF it pains the brain – or the body – or the wallet – people have a pret-ty good avoidance trigger. It’s called comfort.. AKA perceived pain avoidance.
Whether real or perceived, if we are personally not in dire danger, then when it comes to “education and involvement” vs couch….. the couch wins.
_______________________________
Laziness: ‘perceived pain avoidance disguised as smug indifference’.
_______________________________
We’ve forgotten that life is never easy. However, there are ‘coffee breaks’ in the ‘business’ of life
By James – Chatham on 11.18.08 5:21 pm
James, I think that we Canadians knowlingly seek American culture. I don’t watch TV but I am aware that most of our programming comes from the States. For decades, we bought cars designed in the States, we look to New York for fashion, we buy DVDs and CDs of American movies and albums. Many of our largest employers are American companies. Almost every part of our lives is influenced, in some way, by what comes out of the States. Where do Canadians go in the winter? Florida, California, Hawaii and other warm south of the border. Americans come here to visit our North, our parks, our cities. It’s ironic that on one hand we criticize the States and yet we seek them out. Kind of a catch-22.
I am guilty to a degree, as well. I’ll hit Wal-Mart before I’ll set foot in Zellers. The most Canadian of companies – the Hudson’s Bay, is now owned by…an American. My computer software is Microsoft, even. How can we deny that we are susceptible to the American influence? How can we hate it or reject it when we haven’t much in the way of alternatives?
Well Garth–you should be smiling,you have given us the straight goods anyone who listened is better off. Can you imagine where the people are who listened to Harper and Flaherty? (WOW).You should also be happy to be out of that arena—They aren’t done yet!! Future generations of canadians will still be paying the tab for this little fiasco of deception.
So, what is the key to voter turn out? Education, education, education.
If only 50% of the population is willing to become informed and cast a ballot, so be it.
Leasa on 11.18.08 2:47 pm
rof what arrogance. Do you really think people that don`t vote are ill informed, perhaps because you vote you`re superior?
I hope you don`t mind if I save the last of the sugar coating and give it to you straight up.
The vast majority of people I know knows more about politics and politicians that the booble headed cheerleaders on this page. We refused to give a fictitious mandate or any form of encouragement to operate a system broken by corruption.
We feel our response is certainly patriotic and a far better choice than all you political Einsteins knowingly voting for the best of the worst. Are you proud of the fact your `educated` and `informed` and still give your vote to authorize the best of the worst to chart our future, hmmm looks a little grim right now but it must be right because your educated in making the right choice, give me a break.
When you duty bound weak kneed sheeple get brave enough to get off your knees the first things you`ll see is the results of 40 years of voting against the worst. For evidence I give you the last 40 years of broken promises, broken programs and soon now cash broke citizens paying for little or no work done.
It`s not the people, it`s the system that needs replacing.
Kind of like people trying to trick others with multiple identities, eh Rope? — Garth
Decorum in the HoC. Reporter Graham on CTV said something very interesting this morning, if I had time I’d research it. He said that the HoC before the installation of cameras, was much more unruly (can’t remember his exact words), because they used to keep an open bar in the House and many of the MPs were drunk. Anyone read anything about this? How interesting.
Oyez, oyez, oh shit.
Laydeez un’ whutever’s left over . . . Prez-elekt Forrest Gump will now undress (sorry, address) The Erotic Steaks of, ummm, whoever . . .
****************************************
This is the best explanation I’ve heard. Not sure what it says about me to require a Forrest Gump explanation to understand this mess.
———
Mortgage Backed Securities are like boxes of chocolates. Criminals on Wall Street stole a few chocolates from the boxes and replaced them with turds.
Their criminal buddies at Standard & Poor rated these boxes AAA Investment Grade chocolates. These boxes were then sold all over the world to investors.
Eventually somebody bites into a turd and discovers the crime. Suddenly nobody trusts American chocolates anymore worldwide.
Hank Paulson now wants the American taxpayers to buy up and hold all these boxes of turd-infested chocolates for $700 billion dollars until the market for turds returns to normal.
Meanwhile, Hank’s buddies, the Wall Street criminals who stole all the good chocolates are not being investigated, arrested, or indicted.
Mama always said: ‘Sniff the chocolates first, Forrest’.
————-
Quote of the day from a fund manager:
‘This is worse than a divorce . . . I’ve lost half of my net worth and I still have my wife.’
—————–
The bailout, a different perspective
Back in 1990, the Government (under G.H.W. Bush) seized the Mustang Ranch brothel in Nevada for tax evasion and, as required by law, tried to run it.
They failed and it closed. Now we are trusting the economy of our country to a pack of nit-wits who couldn’t make money running a whore house and selling booze?
****************************************
Part of one sentence in the first joke reads “. . . Paulson now wants the American taxpayers . . .”.
Other that what is going on with the worldwide fiscal nonsense, it is abundantly clear (to me, anyway) that politicians of all stripes are spending taxpayers’ money with wanton abandon, as if there was no tomorrow.
Well, guess what? There IS going to be a continuation of life, more and more tomorrows.
The planet we live on has hundreds of thousands of years before it finishes its’ cycle.
This begs an interesting question: If public officials continue to spend money freely, why should taxpayers bother to fill out their tax forms every year, especially as nothing will change until the entire system is so thoroughly corrupt and screwed up, no one wants to take charge? Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Sheeple get so caught up in the msm hype and frenzy about how stock markets and economies are sinking fast, focusing their energies on something negative and completely forgetting that for each down, the opposite must happen — a hidden ‘up’, which is rarely reported — so as to keep a constant equilibrium.
If one has sufficient funds, there are numerous opportunities to benefit from the current downturn. McDonald’s Corp. is one that has recently increased their dividend.
Unfortunately, my six numbers haven’t come up yet!
An example of the mindset of the people handing out our tax dollars in aid!!->>>>>>>——–Bryant and Clement are expected to travel to Detroit on Wednesday and Washington on Thursday to gather more information about a possible U.S. bailout plan for struggling automakers.
Clement has talked about striking a joint Canada-U.S. agreement, but Bryant says Canada should move to help automakers before the Americans do.
The timing of any aid to automakers could be crucial, as concerns grow that one of the Big Three – General Motors, Ford and Chrysler – may go under if help doesn’t arrive before president-elect Barack Obama takes office in January.
Congress was grappling Tuesday with a proposal to provide an additional US$25 billion to help automakers, but its fate remains uncertain.
Bryant has argued Canada could play a “pivotal role” in rescuing an automaker if the Americans don’t provide emergency aid before Jan. 20.
If Canada moves to help automakers before the Americans do, it would put the country in a better position to negotiate the terms, such as making sure that jobs stay in Ontario, he said Monday.
>>>>>> anyone (even with the smallest of business sense) would be laying out the terms for any kind of bailout!!! ITS OUR MONEY!!!(when your handing out billions in aid you shouldn’t be kissing anyones ass! )
My how time flies Barb. Yes, loved that show too. They were ahead of their time in terms of environmental issues and sustainable family gardening – sort of like the old Victory Gardens in England. Sad they no longer have a show on PBS…. I’d exchange seeds with various gardeners around the world…..
Second ballot re Speaker of the House. I think van loon didn’t make during the 1st vote. Can anyone imagine him being a Speaker of the House. Forgot to check what Kady has to say
BY GO GREEN ON 11.18.08 3:03 PM
Hi Go Green,
Maybe some day they’ll get back on PBS. I hope so. They were inspiring and made me want to live that way, and I still hope to some day. With age and health limits we had to go with evergreens and perennials as much as possible around the yard in the past many years. But mostly, I’ve perfected lots of really big pots of flowers intermingled with tons of herbs — so we get great herbal smells and textures. I pretend I’m Barbara Damrosch and I go out an cut a variety of herbs from those pots for salads and cooking. It makes me think “Yippee, I’m a “granola!”
I read Kady… is she serious Rob Anders is still on the list !??!!? Ewwww. Did they look at Ander’s “speaking” performance on video? I think not:
http://www.jenniferpollock.ca/checkthisout/pinocchio.wmv
Maybe one day.. everyone will just BE smarter, and put evil out of a job, when we all truly pay attention, blame ourselves, take responsibility for our group actions and then demand leaders who are honest, intelligent and good people.
By Barb the proofreader on 11.18.08 6:14 pm
Thanks Barb . Interesting stuff .And I concur wholeheartedly .
If you look at Chapter 14 Article 3 of the Constitution it seems to indicate that unless you are a member of a PTA (Provincial and Territorial Association) you “may not vote at any meeting held under this Constitution (including delegate selection and candidate selection meetings) or on the Leadership vote.”
By C. B. Innes on 11.17.08 8:40 pm
Thanks for pointing that out to me, C.B. I might be wrong, but I still think the Alberta provincial Liberal party is not the federal Liberal party’s PTA for the following reasons: Chapter 14, Article 4 begins with “In the case of a PTA which is also a provincial party”, implying that the two are not necessarily the affiliated. Also, Chapter 1, Article 1 states that the Alberta PTA is “The Liberal Party of Canada in Alberta”, which (I think) is not the same entity as the “Alberta Liberal Party”, which competes against the Alberta PC Party in the provincial elections. The LPCA and the ALP also have separate websites.
But as I already noted, I will have to make sure that I am right, so thanks again for bringing this to my attention.
Barb:
Went to the Jennifer Pollock link you gave and just got a blank page. I wonder what happened.
Charles Oxley,
your “box of chocolates” explanation is superb, the best I have seen of the genesis of the financial crisis.
Send it to the White House – even G.W. Bush should be able to understand it.
BY C. B. INNES ON 11.18.08 10:05 AM
So there IS a LOW to which even lawyers won’t stoop! “I did not know that” as Johnny Carson would say.
By Barb the proofreader on 11.18.08 5:29 pm
Not quite so, Barb. It was reported elsewhere that there are only 2 reasons which allow lawyers to dump their clients:
-first is the no payment of fees or inability to pay, and
-the client refuses to listen to legal advice proffered.
Do I get any odds on which it is in this case?
None of the above, I believe, appears on the German ballot, and it is illegal not to vote. A result of the absent vote allowing Hitler to come to power, I understand.
By James – Chatham on 11.17.08 3:39 pm
This is not Germany, and given their history, they are not an icon of democracy.
A write in box is a positive option for change and progress, a none of the above is a negative no alternative downer. And you want how many more people to bother to come out and vote?
You need to take a course in advertising and promotions psychology!
Why did Barack Obama sweep to the head of the Democratic ticket, because he offered hope, change, and opportunity, not negative none of the above, can’t be done-ism. The staggering statistic that he only drew 1% more votes than did Kerry, but that must mean that his acceptance is widely spread and uniformly received.
If you genuinely want change, and reform, get off your ass and work for it, then your words mean something. But sit on your digital duff criticizing, you will be ignored!
Kind of like people trying to trick others with multiple identities, eh Rope? — Garth
By system failure on 11.18.08 7:51 pm
Oh my, lol. I have no motive to trick anybody and of course without motive there is no trick involved.
Perhaps you could explain this personal attack response rather than address the issues I raised.
oops, sry, forgot it was your blog, never mind, follow the crowd.
Redundancy: An airbag in a politician’s car!
Maybe one day.. everyone will just BE smarter, and put evil out of a job, when we all truly pay attention, blame ourselves, take responsibility for our group actions and then demand leaders who are honest, intelligent and good people.
By Barb the proofreader on 11.18.08 6:14 pm
Yeah, I should live so long! I don’t see that happening any time soon! The progress of the human race is not a smooth curve, and it is far from uniform! It is also one of the scientific findings about evolution, that it occurs in fits and starts! Much change only occurs in response to the influence of loss of habitat, food source, and environment. These form very powerful threats to survival, plus those that survive find or develop advantage(s). eg. The Polar Bear evolved to have clear (appears white) fur that allows more Sun light to be absorbed hence more vitamin D is produced in regions that are short of Sun light half the year. That vitamin D is also stored in their liver. The Innuit can and do eat that liver but you and I would be poisoned by that level of Vitamin D, I’m told. That all took eons to arise.
How can we deny that we are susceptible to the American influence? How can we hate it or reject it when we haven’t much in the way of alternatives?
By East of Eden on 11.18.08 7:38 pm
If you use some recall, and further contemplation, the influence originated in Great Britain, and extends to New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, India, and Pakistan.
There are 2 types of Englishman, I’m told. One never goes outside his “village” gates, and the other goes out to conquer the World. Hence most of the World’s problems are their fault! They introduced opium to China, they evicted us Scots from the Highlands to grow their damn sheep, they didn’t start the slave trade but sure carried it on in spades, they left the French in Quebec when they had them beaten, and the worst was they tried to teach the Pakistanis how to speak it. Now who have I forgotten to insult!
Garth, I agree, It’s time for Canadians to take back our Parliament.
The (some of) people of Halton didn’t like you because you weren’t the norm, not the drones of robots sent to the Hill to rubber stamp whatever their masters demand of them.
We don’t need a Liberal Party, we need an alliance of independents, no party whips.
If the Internet will spawn a new thinking in politics, maybe the future of our democracy is stronger.
If _2 million people alone_ can join a facebook group about why people hate the new facebook layout…
Maybe one day.. everyone will just BE smarter, and put evil out of a job, when we all truly pay attention, blame ourselves, take responsibility for our group actions and then demand leaders who are honest, intelligent and good people.
By Barb the proofreader on 11.18.08 6:14 pm
Blame ourselves and take responsibility for group actions by putting Harper (‘evil’) in office? What alternatives did people have? Like many other Canadians I don’t particularly like the guy either but most would vote him back in again tomorrow since we do not have that “honest, intelligent and good people” alternative. As bad as things are today, things could be worse had election results been different!
Garth,
Great post!
I would have much preferred to have you warming a green seat representing the good people of Halton, but I can only hope that the fire in your belly hasn’t gone out.
As a resident of the Halton Riding, I believe that our voices were heard loud and clear not only in Ottawa but well beyond borders of our good country because of your efforts.
If we are to engage the next generation of voters, political parties need to follow your example of digital democracy, and truly drive policy from the “ground up” at the Riding level.
If everyday Canadians believe that their perspectives on issues count, this will cause them to believe again that votes matter and voter turnout will rise to unprecedented levels.
Garth – please tell me that the “fire in the belly” hasn’t gone out.
Cheers!
Don
Redundancy: An airbag in a politician’s car!
By Men With Hats on 11.18.08 10:57 pm
ROFLMAO! Now there is ‘The Thought of The Day’ for sure.
We don’t need a Liberal Party, we need an alliance of independents, no party whips.
If the Internet will spawn a new thinking in politics, maybe the future of our democracy is stronger.
By Shawn Starr on 11.19.08 1:47 am
How true, and exactly what democracy was supposed to be about.
The Party system came in because of the the costs which rose to counter the egomaniac wealthy who could afford campaigns, and the need to be Groupies. Real representatives should be there to represent their constituents, never a Party. All candidates should get free air time, and advertising at a fixed amount based solely on their riding population and distances travelled. We need to cancel the corporate buyoffs.
Parties are the dumbing down of the electorate providing a no-brainer choice to most who really only care when their own ox is being gored by another.
No wonder we have the mess we have. The foxes have been running free in our chicken coop for decades. No regulation, over-reactionary regulation based on lobbyist groups with chequebooks, and just plain uninformed, careless twits who we allow to actually write laws we have to live by, while they scurry about avoiding the same.
Mirror, mirror on the wall. Who’s the dumbest of them all?
We’ve forgotten that life is never easy. However, there are ‘coffee breaks’ in the ‘business’ of life
By Barb the proofreader on 11.18.08 7:21 pm
Yes, there are, and those were real coffee breaks before the days of ridiculously priced ‘Yuppie drinks’, Starbucks? Give me a break…Starbuck on ‘Battlestar Galatica was a wacko. The coffee break was the reward for the hard work and a pause to refesh one’s being.
Nowadays, people want to make work the ‘coffee break’ and focus on the coffeee break as their primary task.
Hope all is well with you? I have been extremely busy the past week, and this week looks to be the same. I like it that way actually, but always with a healthy balance.
Rope,
glad to see that there is not motive involved in your frequent name changes. Let you in on a fact: there is no such thing as a gratuitous act in human nature.
So what is the point of constantly reappearing under cover of a new handle? It takes about four posts to recognize your inimitable style and favourite hobby horses, so pick a name and stick to it. (Yea, I know, we’ve beeen having this conversation for about a year and a half.)
Kind of like people trying to trick others with multiple identities, eh Rope? — Garth
By system failure on 11.18.08 7:51 pm
You would have fewer ’sheep’ if the masses were educated regarding the running of their country and they would better understand our place in the global world. I am an advocate of education, and I made darn sure that my daughter and now son will have post sec. education. My daughter made the Dean’s list in getting her honours BA and made distinction in getting her Ed. BA.
I didn’t really have much of a choice or support in getting a good education. I was encouraged to quit school when I turned 16 to work full time. True, I was already so busy with part time work at the time, that stepping into the full time workforce was not much of a stretch. I did however, educate myself and attended community college at night for 10 years while I worked a full time swing shift and raised a child on my own. Kind of doing it the hard way. I couldn’t afford to get a full blown diploma, but I have enough certificates that I’m sure I could almost paper a wall. So, I always told myself that my children would have the most excellent educations money could buy and their own hard work could earn.
People who vote in Canada are not ’superior’ to the rest of those who do not. They are just more informed. With education within our schools, those who would otherwise be uninformed would gain a whole new interest and insight and be more willing to become a part of the process.
Education is the answer to so many of our ills. Leasa
(Yea, I know, we’ve beeen having this conversation for about a year and a half.)
By Herb on 11.19.08 9:35 am
There is no point and your point is obvious. Most readers here have seen it time and time again, seize yourself on some obscure point so you don`t have to address the issue. So much for the concept Garth advertised about discussion and bringing ideas forth, if it`s not toxic anti-Harper or CPC it`s not part of this new `openness`. While it`s said bad news doesn`t win elections bull shit loses them, this blog holds the example and testimonial.
How many Cdns do you think believed Garth when he said the Liberals were not part of the minority government? True enough if the official opposition walked on the vote they are not part of the process but Garth didn`t include that.
The plan was to get the readers to vote against the worst and it didn`t work for you yet this blog has not changed one iota. Personal attacks in response to valid positions such as the system is broken by corruption is obvious to most Cdns, diverting the attention to the poster only reinforced the original statement, thanks for the help supporting mine.
Cdns now own $25B in toxic mortgages and you post concerns knowing who posted the info, lol I`m sure the readers are more interested in who posted rather than when they can move in,,,,, not.
Distract, dismiss, deny, roflmao, Garth is not part of the government and he still uses the same old.
btw Herb I did stop by to see if things had changed with Garth now out of caucus and I have my answer, did you get yours?
People who vote in Canada are not ’superior’ to the rest of those who do not. They are just more informed.
By Leasa on 11.19.08 11:06 am
The rule of law does not apply to government or associates, Cdns by and large vote against the worst and it shows.
Significantly more than half of Cdns are denied their Charter Rights while Vancouver is leading the way in youth problems. Ontario is a have not province, forestry has been decimated along with fisheries, water quality, air quality and we`re at the mercy of world events, all a direct result of government policy. The list is much longer and getting longer, all brought to us by `educated voters`. You should think about apologizing to Cdns for voting in support of a broken system. If that`s education I`m comfortable where I am.
btw L did you notice Garth responded on a personal level to government corruption even though my post was to you. You might think Garth came to your defense with distract dismiss deny rather than address the issue of governance. lol, I`m now wondering what could have motivated such a monumental shift in paradigm from bashing the opposition into losing.
Expat,
Do you actually think even if Dion won he’d have enough votes to pass a Green Shift plan? We’re in Minority parliaments now.
let’s try that again….
Expat,
Do you actually think even if Dion won he’d have enough votes to pass a Green Shift plan? We’re in Minority parliaments now.
By expat on 11.19.08 3:20 am
Blame ourselves and take responsibility for group actions by putting Harper (’evil’) in office? What alternatives did people have? Like many other Canadians I don’t particularly like the guy either but most would vote him back in again tomorrow since we do not have that “honest, intelligent and good people” alternative. As bad as things are today, things could be worse had election results been different!
As bad as things are today, things could be worse had election results been different!
By Shawn Starr on 11.19.08 1:14 pm
We should thank the educated voters for choosing bad over worse. I can`t help but notice how it`s the voters calling other voters sheeple while those of us that have taken a stand and said enough is enough and refuse to support a broken system with our vote are defined as ill informed.
Besides being the educated and intelligent choice `none of the above` is our democratic right and should be on the ballot.
Great to see a bailout for the auto sector. It won`t stop it from crashing as no amount of billions will change the tanked consumer spending power but the government will say, `we did everything we could` and hang onto those votes that should be going none of the above.
As Antoinette, in response to `the people have no credit` let them pay cash.
don`t blame me, I didn`t vote
btw L did you notice Garth responded on a personal level to government corruption even though my post was to you. You might think Garth came to your defense By system failure on 11.19.08 12:31 pm
****
Of course he did. Garth loves me. L
Rope,
please have some concern for the safety of the crew of the space station. You are shooting so far over the top that you are putting them in danger.
We met a few years ago when John Reynolds and I were in your area to give you a boost. I thought at the time it was “All for Garth and Garth for Garth” and I haven’t changed my opinion.
Mr. Reynolds came with Gord Brown, an Ontario MP, and Wall Butts, the Conservative regional organizer. Which one are you? — Garth
Hi Garth
When all is said and done; there is something to be said for towing the party line
Of course he did. Garth loves me. L
By Leasa on 11.19.08 3:39 pm
Of course he loves us all L, I wasn`t insinuating he`d rather defend a Harperite than address governance issues.
You are shooting so far over the top
By Herb on 11.19.08 5:08 pm
Havn`t I always been over the top?
Disagreed with Garth over rising interest rates. Last summer was no shock but telling you then the August numbers coming in the fall would tell us what was to come, hmm not over the top but when I added cash is good I suspect that was way over what MSM put out. Late last winter I said the economy is on thin ice but that was fairly well know so I suspect when I said the melt is on in July, again far above if not over the top of everyone else. Saying the August numbers would get crushed by the end of October was definitely way out there and by some fluke of global finances, here we are with crushed numbers.
If your interested in how far over the top for the last 10 years on the children of divorce I`ll be happy to email you all the info.
Expat,
Do you actually think even if Dion won he’d have enough votes to pass a Green Shift plan? We’re in Minority parliaments now.
By Shawn Starr on 11.19.08 1:12 pm
Who said anything about a Green Shift?
You are shooting so far over the top
By Herb on 11.19.08 5:08 pm
Getting back to governance issues there are many Cdns that think `dysfunctional government` or `a system broken by corruption will not fix itself` as not over the top. Do you really consider listing the failures of 40 years of voting against the worst is over the top? There are many Cdns that don`t think replacing the people is the answer, that replacing the system is, as certainly not over the top.
How about breaking down what you think is over the top and why. We`re all eyes.
Garth… you have no idea how many times you have frustrated me, but every once in a while, I just have to read what you write.
You probably would do much better in a U.S. style of party political system, where those that run counter to the mainstream of the party are not immediately thrown on the scrap heap.
McCain and Lieberman are two shining examples, with Lieberman even retaining his chairmanship. That would never happen under a parliamentry system like we have in Canada.
Old Preston Manning thought he could change things, but was ridiculed for it.
Garth, ya just gotta accept that rebels like you can’t operate in our system.
I can’t stand your point of view most of the time, but damn it, I wish you were back in somehow to keep things stirred up.
Good luck in the future.
oops
“Last summer was no shock” Should read summer before last.
We are entering an Economic War … let’s work together to defeat the international forces that are attempting to drag Canada down through protectionism and the rape of our industrial base.
The federal election is over and Canadians have spoken out loud and clear .. so we too must be conciliatory to one another … after all we are all Canadians.
Lead the way, Garth … udaman …!!!!
Hope all is well with you? I have been extremely busy the past week, and this week looks to be the same. I like it that way actually, but always with a healthy balance.
BY BILL-MUSKOKA (NOT ANYMORE) 19 9:22 AM
Hi Bill,
All is well thank Bill. I’ve been busy too. Funny enough I was just having a coffee break when I noticed your comment! I’m trying to adjust to the cold weather and I’m still ticked off that Lethbridge and The Hat were nearly 20 degrees the other day, yet 90 minutes away Calgary did not get much of that warm chinook. Darn.
Went to the Jennifer Pollock link and got a blank page. I wonder what happened.
BY PAT G ON 11.18.08 10:13 PM
Maybe try her blog page and link to the video from there. Hope that helps.
(You have to click on the video start arrow)
http://buckdogpolitics.blogspot.com/2008/04/when-tory-mp-rob-anders-was-paid.html