A year ago, I guess, an academic from the Department of Political Science at Mount Allison University popped into my life. Tamara Small made contact by email, followed up with a few conversations and ended up interviewing me at length. Her fascination was this blog and, as an adjunct, how it was both changing politics and destroying its creator.
In the subsequent blur of events in my political life, I forgot about our encounter until yesterday, when I was made aware of the thesis she had written about you and I, which has recently been published in the Canadian Political Science Review. Her 21-page opus not only puts this blog in the context of others in Canada, but also in other jurisdictions, and has a close look at you – citizens and voters who come here to read and be read.
Her conclusion:
On the blog, Garth Turner claims to be “Canada’s Digital Democracy leader.” This analysis shows the claim is not without its merits. Though Turner readily admits the claim is aggrandizing, he is very clear about his desire to ‘lead by example’ in Canadian parliamentary politics. This examination suggests that he is certainly achieving this goal. In terms of being a leader, while most current Canadian parliamentarians are online with their own web sites promoting the consituency and party activities, Turner is the only one of a few parliamentarians that embraced blogging in its full capacity. Even when compared with genuine blogs, it outperforms. Given the small proportion of legislators in the United States and United Kingdom who blog, what Garth Turner is doing is striking. He does not just present the opportunity of the interface for Canadians to engage with him, Canadians actually do so. Garth Turner Unedited allows for exactly what it says it does, unfettered discussion between posters and the blogger.”
You can read the article in its entirely by clicking here.
69 comments ↓
Hi there Mr.Turner I don’t mean anything by this,but years ago I think I read somewhere don’t remember where that if a federal MP would lose their seat in the house during an election they would still get paid for another year is this true? I would surly appreciate thank you!
There is a severance payment for those who have served under six years, but I’m not sure offhand what it is. For those who have served over six years, there is a pension payable after age 55. I sat in the House for just under 9 years. My pension is $26,000. You read it here first. — Garth
Mr Turner
The past two blogs appears that you are trying to rebuild your image.
I agree that your blog did allow individual Canadians to be frank and partake in a discussion. The problem as I see it if a person belongs to a team they have to play their role within that to strengthen the team. It is similar to the weak link in the chain analogy. It is only as strong as its weak link.
I faxed Mr Chretien in 1997 over a Ministerial Inquiry that was one of three that were submitted by an MP. (since defeated and retired) In each case each these were frivolous. However, they force several people to jump through hoops as they are to be aswered immediately. My question to him was this. ” Do you have any control over your MP’s” The response from the PMO was “NO”. The explanation given was that each MP is elected within their community and are responsiblile only to the electorate.
Lets be honest you are smart enough to know that you could have done it different. I understand from your you had problems with Mr Harper and you recently admitted you had some problems with Mr Dion. We did not have to be privy to this information. If this happened to me I would have done a self evaluation to determine if I had the problem and determine what I would do to fix it.
Unforunately, it is too late now. You do have a lot to offer. If you knowledge and efforts could be channeled in the right direction.
I think when you are working within a large organization that loyalty and Integrity are very important assets.
In your case when you moved on to being an Independent and then to the Liberals I think if you had taken the high road you may have had a great political career. I have viewed people over the years who bitched and complained about people in a higher position of authority. I witnessed the same person who assumed this same office perform worst than the person they often compained about. I have found that if you work hard, follow the rules and treat everyone with respect you will get your just reward. Also a favourite saying in the military is be good to the people on the way up as you will meet these same people on the way down.
The one nice thing is there is a life after politics as well.
Good Lord! I am a member of a commentariat, and Leasa is a blogroach. And here I always thought she was a troll.
The things you learn on garth.ca.
“There is a severance payment for those who have served under six years, but I’m not sure offhand what it is. For those who have served over six years, there is a pension payable after age 55. I sat in the House for just under 9 years. My pension is $26,000. You read it here first. — Garth”
Well Mr.Turner I appreciate the information thanks again!
BY DAVID HALFKENNY ON 11.18.08 10:43 PM
I think when you are working within a large organization that loyalty and Integrity are very important assets.
I’m sorry but you’re just wrong. Loyalty and integrity are gone. Loyalty is bought and paid for. Integrity? I don’t think most people even know what it means anymore. Loyalty and integrity can be regarded as social ideals of the past.
Politics is evolving to elitism and all the entitlement that comes with it. Mr. Garth tried to buck that trend, and he has to be commended for it. But he won’t get any kudos from any of the parties.
Perhaps you’re right Mr. Garth and more independents will be elected.
I question why it is called Political Science since it is more art than science!
I also reject the analyses given that you made major mistakes, Garth. I watched the program the other night labelled “The Ten Commandments of the Mafia”. In the wrap up summations it was stated that most of the current and recent mobsters have ignored and or broken most if not all of these tenets of the once Secret Society born of the Spanish occupation of Sicily, but turned to criminality in the post occupation. What we have in politics is an analogous situation where the loyalty and responsibility to the electorate is misplaced within a party structure for which there is no basis or provision in law, but they are also not prohibited!
Furthermore, given the nature of the Halton riding electorate, the mindset is that of small and large “C” conservative, plus the only hope you had of re-election was that of an independent conservative! That said, it is also important to recognize that profits and oracles of the future are frequently not accepted in their own era!
Changing the subject: These attempts at a bail out of the auto industry are futile at this time given the mindset of the consumer. Even the most fuel efficient vehicles are not selling, and where the problem lies is the lack of lending/credit, the perception that fuel will again rise to unreasonable rates since it is traded as an investment grade commodity. With over a million now unemployed in N. America, buying a car is the last item on the budget when the masses of homes are being repossess and food for the table or sidewalk is hard to come by. The best strategy would be for governments to take control of fuel supplies, regulate the price, and ration the use of it. How many of the operators of big SUVs, pickup trucks and Hummers actually pay for their own fuel? Much of it was on company credit cards, and business write offs which either way is passed on to the consumer. Much business travel could be replaced by internet and video phone conversation, but the old ways die hard. Digital is the way of the future in more than just politics. Save the fuel for hauling the goods that are bought/sold over the net!
It will also free up the freeways for the trucks!
By David Halfkenny on 11.18.08 10:43 pm
With respect, my immediate impression of yourself is as a very sanctimonious individual.
By Herb on 11.18.08 10:43 pm.
Kind of silly comment. I wonder if it is possible to move beyond the petty digs.
By David Halfkenny on 11.18.08 10:43 pm.
Exactly. I agree 100% with your comment.
I have often said: If one man’s opinion differs from that of the crowd is the crowd right or the man. Thanks for being that one right voice Garth.
she had written about you and I – Garth
Sorry Garth, this grammatical error drives me nuts!
That should read, “She had written about you and me.”
BTW. Which other Canadian MPs offer a blog vs. a political constituancy website?
To Don Bool and East of Eden
Thanks to East of Eden for your comment. It is nice to read a positive comment once in awhile.
To Don Bool, I try to be practical and look at things objectively. These two principles have served me very well over the years.
I have attended a few financial seminars held by Mr Turner. I also have watched question period for years when he was a Progressive Conservative and followed his challenge to the leadership. I also followed his short stint as Revenue Minister. His performance was similar to other who held this post. He has not alway been as abrasive as he has been when he reentered politics.
On listening to him personally, I found him to be a very fast talking and knowledgeable individual who was up to date on the issues of the day.
As individuals we fail to see our own faults or admit our failures. It takes others to offer constructive criticism to assist people when they may be straying off message.
The team needs are larger than individual wants and needs. I was only trying to offer Mr Turner some sage advice than may been used to avoid the dilemma he found himself in. I will bet if he could roll back the clock he would have done it differently. No one wants to depart on a losing note because that is how you will be remembered.
It has nothing to do with being a Liberal or any other party affiliate. It is just plain common sense.
Garth,
Thanks for the link to the thesis. After I read it (busy with profitable work this morning) I will comment.
It went down to -17C here last night. winter has arrived!
East of Eden,
with some of your “Conservative” fellows on Garth’s blog, “petty digs” are the only conversation possible because that is all they are here for.
Rebuild your image says Mr. Halfkenny. Does your image need rebuilding Garth?
Maybe it’s just me, but when someone gives it their best shot I don’t see that as tarnishing their image. Especially if that someone became the target of concentrated fire from numerous mercenaries.
If anyones image needs rebuilding, I would think it would be the mercenaries and those who used them.
This behaviour further illustrates the need for political Revolution in this country.
Poster Dee made an interesting comment, “Politics is evolving to elitism”. If I might tweak that a bit, I would write Politics is evolving elitism.
I have been following some of the leading Liberal blogs recently, and frankly have given up on many of them because of the glaring elitism and unwarranted arrogance. To be blunt, I am uncomfortable with the thought that these same people whose views are often myopic and juvenile, are the people who will pick the future leader of their party and participate in policy forming. Undoubtedly, many of these people are quite smart in given fields, yet are lacking in general knowledge and understanding. More importantly, they are not interested in hearing differing points of view that would interfere with the mindset they have already formulated. Elitism 101.
One thing I find especially interesting is their talk about connecting with the middle/working class voter in order to secure these votes in the future, yet at the same time they seem intent on ridiculing this same group on an ongoing basis.
I discovered that there is no point in trying to explain this phenomenon to them. They already know better. It is really difficult to teach someone who already knows it all.
Comrade Herb, Comradely greetings and down with the Lords of the Loo.
I thought the blogroach title to be quite amusing. I guess what entertains one does not necessarily entertain all. Oh well..
That’s my contribution for today as an occasional member of the commentariat.
Garth,
Okay, I perused the thesis and my conclusion is simple. When I look at the number of papers being written by PhD’s on the subject it seems to me they need to get a life in the real world, and then when they have gotten their egos bruised a tad, their minds opened to the fact that people are people, and that a blog is an electronic Town Hall meeting 24/7, then they may grasp the ‘why’s’ for bloging.
Otherwise, they, as usual, load up on big words, create new terminology, and generally are two clicks short in the making of a clue why people blog. I especially liked the faux attempt at numerical classification and statistical analysis (anal + cyst = hemmorhoid).
In simple terms a blog is people communicating. You stymie them with this blog because they are trying to figure out how to control this uncontrolled medium where free people speak freely.
Goebbels would have had hundreds employed trying to break the Code and found it to still be an Enigma.
Had a great discussion on the auto workers at Tim’s this morning when many jumped on the CAW and their members… to whit I said.. when the working class were fighting amongst themselves the executives and CEO’s were reaping the forest unnoticed and blaming the working class for unfair demands… Hello, the average CEO pay is now 218 times that of workers in the major companies! That would be $14M in the US and $9.5 in Canada….. so please stop bashing around good union people… Garth has mentioned far too many times the price of housing for working class coupled with transportation costs and child care to make it almost impossible for working class to survive even at $30 an hour. A young Ford who was CEO for only 9 months left with a $70M severance package and I do not even know where to start to list the thousands of multi million dollar bonuses CEO’s and senior executives have received over the past years while the media and others have jumped over the few demands the middle class have asked for, union and non union alike. Think, and when Banks and others failed they demanded Billions from taxpayers and received it pronto! Of course 148 high priced Conservative appointments fell off the MSM’s media screen in that Fixed Election default. Just think how many more are about to take place as Harper fuels his economy bottles of snake oil to be fed to public.
Comrade Okie,
good to see you alive and well and advancing the Revolution. Darn that Mike Harris for having spoiled the “Common Sense” label in perpetuity.
I see that you, too, have found little difference in the taste of Kool-aid, whether served in its Blue or Red varieties. That’s the beauty of what Garth is doing: fact and logic are given a chance to stand on their own, not only in the guise of political utility. And some people consider this as “in your face”! Sad, but so be it, if that’s what it takes to make politics real in this country.
Have you observed the marvels coming out of the mouths of the Big Three? They are living the model of the best of all possible business worlds, they have obeyed the dictates of the Great God Marketplace and have given the consumer exactly what he wants, and all they need is 25B to carry on their success stories until the world of finance has regained its sanity. And all this with perfect sincerity.
Whoever asked the Big Three for a plan to do better must have been mad: they have whole departments capable of producing instant plans and rationales for any purpose. Don’t Washington and Ottawa know that new car salesmen are worse in matters of credibility than used car salesmen?
The truth is what remains when everything else has come unstuck. Comradely greetings, as always.
To be blunt, I am uncomfortable with the thought that these same people whose views are often myopic and juvenile, are the people who will pick the future leader of their party and participate in policy forming.
Undoubtedly, many of these people are quite smart in given fields, yet are lacking in general knowledge and understanding. More importantly, they are not interested in hearing differing points of view that would interfere with the mindset they have already formulated. Elitism 101.
By comrade okie on 11.19.08 9:36 am
I see that you, too, have found little difference in the taste of Kool-aid, whether served in its Blue or Red varieties. That’s the beauty of what Garth is doing: fact and logic are given a chance to stand on their own, not only in the guise of political utility. And some people consider this as “in your face”! Sad, but so be it, if that’s what it takes to make politics real in this country.
By Herb on 11.19.08 10:57 am
They all sound like elite clubs to me. KKK, Hells Angels, P-CRAP, Liberals,Hasty Pudding Society, NDP, Bloc, Masons, K of C, Vatican; all proud issuers of encyclicals post-secret meeting, during which potentially offensive positions are modified for public consumption.
It appears one must merely be content to be considered a member of the commentariat … which is, at present, at very low yield participation level; hence 40.9% abstain from voting at all.
Did Hamlet ever have a 6th. soliliquy?
I will bet if he could roll back the clock he would have done it differently. No one wants to depart on a losing note because that is how you will be remembered.
By David Halfkenny on 11.19.08 8:44 am
How, pray tell, can sticking to your principles while fostering an air of sharing a common destiny, denote failure, when you attract the abundant goodwill of those with whom you’ve shared? I call it revising the gold standard.
There, I’ve answered my own question.
Hamlet did have a 6th. soliloquy.
Observation on the current pleas for and granting of taxpayer money for free enterprise bailouts:
The common sense approach would be that applying more debt to solve a massive, record debt problem only makes sense if you can be assured that the total debt will ever have to be repaid.
The latter can be accomplished by fraud, forgiveness by the granter of the debt, or total calamity or bankruptcy.
Knowing the history of modern financial transactions, which of those outcomes do you think more likely?
pls. change ever to never in above post
(I guess this wouldn’t be the best time to ask Garth for a Blog format with a preview/edit feature. I’ll wait.)
Canada’s Water
the good news:
Maude Barlow named first UN water adviser
the bad news:
Tories to pull out of Canada-led water-monitoring program
30 year database designed and managed in Canada no longer a priority for this government.
(Garth, I would like your premission to copy posts that I make in your Blog, as is, to other Blogs such as that of Bob Rae. Do I have your copyright permission to do so?)
Markets
Wed Nov 19 11:48:10 EST 2008
S&P/TSX8,630.93
-204.80 -2.37 %
DJIA8,223.32
-201.43 -2.45 %
NASDAQ1,434.63
-48.64 -3.39 %———-Not the time for the government to be bailing out any private enterprise—the list is only going to get longer.
You are a leader in digital democracy, and that is something to be proud of. I hope you continue to keep the CPC accountable, even if it is from afar (for now … there day is coming).
Greetings once more Comrade Herb,
It appears quite certain that the kool aid will not be turned into wine at any point in the foreseeable future.
What can a person say about the big 3?
I remember when me bro was a mucky muck with the General back in the 60’s & 70’s and during that time, reading that GM was the 2nd largest corporation in the world. The Catholic Church was first which is not really surprising if one thinks about it. In those days GM had 50% of the North American market and the brand was unshakable. So how did they get here from there? Ignoring the lesson taught by Lee Iaccoca is one contributing factor.
Lord Mr. Ford if you could see what they have done
What your simple horseless carraige has become
A very good friend of mine who passed some years ago was a career salesmen for Ford. (An accomplished pilot and loved farming too) He was much older than I and had lived and worked through the great depression. I remember him telling me that his employer had only sold something like 20 cars in one of the depression years. Still, the company survived, and went on to grow and prosper. They survived mostly by selling Ford farm implements, some tractors, parts and providing service.
Interestingly, this dealership survived for the lifetime of the original owner and was run for many years by one of his Sons. It succumbed to the new age mentality of the big 3 which forced dealers to abandon their old facilities and invest heavily into the Hotel like structures we now know as Auto Dealerships. And I mean forced. This was not optional. You either built the facility they wanted or they would build it and lease it to you or you got the h*ll out. My second cousin went through this in the Calgary area some years ago too. He walked away from a lifetime of being a garage man and Chevrolet dealer.
It is of course larger than that now, as this concept has permeated our entire society. I would rather buy a car from a guy with 4 bays and room for 6 cars in the showroom cause I know better. But it’s everywhere now. Everything from going to a movie to buying clothes or electronics. I have a 15 yr. old and he went shopping for a coat this past week. Couldn’t find anything he liked at Winners so we ended up at West 49. I said spend $100, he came back with a bill for $169. He wants a new MP3. The old one,(a little over a year) still works but it’s not an ipod. Another $160.
I went looking online at Circuit City expecting some sales given their financial situation. No bargains there. I checked out their stock because the Mexican billionaire who owns 26% of the company said it’s a good buy. Couldn’t even find it listed on the stock exchange. Guess they yanked it. Oil is $54 bucks a barrel but gas is 86 cents at the pump here. A loaf of bread is $2.25 and up.
So wheres the deflation?
The only thing I see that is cheap in our area is used cars, and that I suspect is because of an overall glut and the volume of new and newer units flooding the market due to easy credit of recent years. Too many cars, not enough buyers. Yet, the imports still keep coming.
Is anyone watching the farm??
General Motors spent three billion advertizing the Yukon for 5 years to make $20,000 per unit. They were greedy , very greedy , very very greedy . the general motors invested in Big oil market with the capital they had to play with. Let them die , let them die. For if that was me Harper and Clement would outright say to me die.
Mr. Turner,
Imagine a Parliament starting without YOU in it! Tough day to be a narcissist, I suppose.
Not sure if this is off topic or not.
There are alot of people on this blog that are alot smarter than I am so I would like to pose a question. I have heard alot lately about the percentage of labour cost relative to the cost of a car so my question is this. What is the cost of fuel to get a 1.79 cauliflower from the farmer’s field to my shopping cart. The answer may help me decide whose eviromental policy is best. Please don’t quote me on the price of cauliflower because I’m not sure of that.
P.S. We still have Swiss Chard, Curly Kale and Chinese Cabbage growing in our garden.
Mentioned many times in books that covered the Great Depression, but never heeded….”Market Interventions by Governments worsen Economic and Financial Conditions”
The Gravity of cliff diving
going forward 
Getting political cover from all the other stampeding G20 diving companions will not lessen the pain of the fall. It will only provide companionship and eventually crowd you off the same cliff.
Financial commentator Marc Faber has an interesting paper on this.
Observation on deficit financing:
- financial circumstances haven’t changed…it’s the government’s misunderstanding of continuing circumstances that has changed (reality wn’t go away just because you refuse to believe in it)
- deficit financing, like credit, like temporary taxes to fix a problem…. is very easy to enter into, but a bugger to exit from
There, I’ve answered my own question.
Hamlet did have a 6th. soliloquy.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 11.19.08 11:59 am
You just had to bring up Hamlet didn’t you?
As if I’m not depressed enough already. I think I’ll go fall on my rubber knife now.
Just kidding. You knew that.
Now for my political statement. Oh God you say. Yes, again. And God won’t help you, only the forward button will.
As Canadians risked life and limb in Afghanistan for the interests of Big Oil, Big Money and Mr. Big in General, we are rewarded how? Ah yes, some thing about bordering on recession/depression and all that. Yes yes.
Money made, money lost. Blood on the sidewalks. Yes yes. Cheney indicted by a grand jury. Oh, imagine that. Something about his investments in Private Prisons. Nice.
I didn’t bother any of you on Rememberance Day. I usually don’t do that kind of thing. I simply watch the pain in the faces. And I remember along with them. In quiet solitude.
Except for a second cousin in Maine, the rest of us never rose beyond the rank of Sgt. Some by choice, some due to tender years.
It appears to me that Iggy holds the values of his ancestors. Dion didn’t stand for his principles. Who knows what Rae and LeBlanc think? IMHO
Rae will politic with this issue. LeBlanc has a history. Will he sell that History like Dion did or will he stand up? I dunno. I don’t know much, cause no one tells me anything. Why would they? I’m likely to blab it all out on the internet like Garth Turner. Musn’t have that now must we?
It’s an old story, wot?
Long Live The Spirit of The Tank Man.
Not the time for the government to be bailing out any private enterprise—the list is only going to get longer.
By John on 11.19.08 12:42 pm
And sometimes in a mature industry like Autos, some of the top dogs have to fail to allow innovation from the smaller guys to take over and rejuvenate the industry.
The big three CEO’s recognise their reliance on “what the customer wanted!”, big, powerful gas guzzlers. (How many units did they sell, not many customers wanted Hummers and Tahoes, but they had huge profit margins.) They say they’re trying to turn things around with hybrids and more fuel efficient vehicles on the drawing board. Same bed, different sheets, lie in it!
Hey, if the US. as part of the financial bailout can devise a plan where one bank took over another, why not do the same for the auto’s?
Or to put it another way, Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac and GMC where once upon a time separate companies. Now they’re just brand names.
Par for the course:
…..Auto CEO’s were asked why they flew to Washington in private jets to ask for public funds.
….discussing World poverty and economic meltdown while swilling expensive wines and crunching quail.
….driving a row of limousines to meetings to discuss govt. spending cutbacks and green environmental measures
The big three CEO’s recognise their reliance on “what the customer wanted!”
By James – Chatham on 11.19.08 3:44 pm
And they were paid how much to come to this extraordinary conclusion?
Next. If a bailout for one is good, then a bailout for how many others is imminent?
Meanwhile the cost of Policing in our area is increasing by 7.8% this year (similar to many areas) and local councillors are saying to expect similar next year and the years thereafter. They also say this is not just a regional thing. Personal experience confirms this to be true.
Why is that? What is wrong that requires constant continued cost escalation of Policing? I live in the outbacks, relatively speaking, so why is it that the cost of keeping the Peace continues to escalate year after year? Are we that unruly?
Or is it that we are over governed, over regulated, over civil serviced and lacking in will to confront the truth?
My pension is $26,000. You read it here first. — Garth
By The Right on 11.18.08 10:15 pm
Garth, that’s it? That’s all? After nine years of giving up your life for that job, all the attacks the disruption to your family? I’ll say it again, an MP’s job is a very difficult job as you know. $26K pension is terrible, it should be double. I had no idea it was so low.
Herb, I would like to know what exactly I said to you that would generate such personal contempt? L
Blogging should be mandatory for all MPs. I am not kidding. MP-constituency-blogging is what grassroots politics is all about. In this day and age, there simply is no better way for elected officials to communicate with those who have elected them.
Garth I like you. You say it as it is and don’t pussy foot around your subject. You could be right or possibly wrong (God forbid) but at least you have the guts to state your opinion. Obama is sending us into a depression by the way..
http://www.thecomingdepression.blogspot.com
The pension is in addition to what most Canadians would consider a pretty good annual salary so even if one accepts that MPs “give up their life” while in office, which is debatable, it still looks like a pretty good return for doing what is regarded as public service.
By comrade okie on 11.19.08 4:32 pm
Excellent questions when it comes to policing. Are they hiring more officers, replacing equipment, buying new equipment etc..etc…etc..
I suggest you contact your local council and police services board, unless you’re policed by a provincial force, then ask your MPP as well.
And they were paid how much to come to this extraordinary conclusion?
By comrade okie on 11.19.08 4:32 pm
Or to put it another way, how many vehicle units did they need to sell just to cover their salaries and bonuses? When they could sell them, fewer Hummers, Tahoes, F150’s and Hemi’s than Cobalts, Focus’s and Caravans!
Speaking of the Auto’s saving money,
CHrysler Finance is consolidating its offices into Toronto, by closing its calgary, Montreal and Windsor offices.
Surely it would be cheaper to close the Toronto office and move everything to Windsor. Afterall, isn’t that where Chrysler Canada has its headquarters, not to mention the cost of real estate is a lot cheaper?
Little Johnny and Maxine had nothing to do with this . . .
****************************************
Actual Answering Machine Messages Recorded and Verified By The World Famous International Institute of Answering Machine Messages:
10. My wife and I can’t come to the phone right now, but if you’ll leave your name and number, we’ll get back to you as soon as we’re finished.
9. Hello, you are talking to a machine. I am capable of receiving messages. My owners do not need siding, windows or a hot tub and their carpets are clean. They give to charity at the office and don’t need their picture taken. If you’re still with me, leave your name and home phone number and they will get back to you.
8. This is not an answering machine — this is a telepathic thought-recording device. After the tone, think about your name, your number, and your reason for calling, and I’ll think about returning your call.
7. Hi! John’s answering machine is broken. This is his refrigerator. Please speak very slowly, and I’ll stick your message to myself with one of these magnets.
6. Hi. This is John: If you are the phone company, I already sent the money. If you are my parents, please send money. If you are my bank, you didn’t lend me enough money. If you are my friends, you owe me money. If you are a female, don’t worry, I have LOTS of money.
5. A is for academics, B is for beer. One of those reasons is why we’re not here. So, leave a message.
4. Hello! If you leave a message, I’ll call you soon. If you leave a “sexy” message, I’ll call sooner.
3. Hi! Now YOU say something.
2. Hi! I’m probably home, I’m just avoiding someone I don’t like. Leave me a message, and if I don’t call back, it’s you.
1. Hello, you’ve reached Jim and Sonya. We can’t pick up the phone right now, because we’re doing something we really enjoy. Sonya likes doing it up and down, and I like doing it left to right, real slowly. So leave a message, and when we’re done brushing our teeth, we’ll call you back.
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11. Hi! This is Upchuck! To avoid the msm drivel, we now continue with a few conspiracy theories.
First contains dates which are close at hand now, and second is a short clip for those who are NOT politically correct, a.k.a. us old farts.
The first one contains info. that is already known — i.e., pre-planned fiscal meltdown, a possibility that there will be a series of nuke strikes in the US (there is a nuke storage facility in Washington, just down from us) and Colin Powell saying that “something would happen on Jan. 21 or 22″ in DC.
http://tinyurl.com/6l3oky http://tinyurl.com/6mmnw2
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Stay out of debt, stay out of trouble. Russia learnt this while dubya and the rest of the west are running around in square circles.
What is strange is that while China and Russia’s debt loads are quite small, their stock markets are tanking, and there is no good reason for that, although China’s rose 18% yesterday.
An Arctic blast for Britain? Courtesy of Dailyreckoning.com . . .
“Winter Fuel Payments…don’t miss out!”
“. . . this is how societies collapse. People invent problems. Then, they find solutions to the problems. Then, the solutions cause more problems. And finally the cost of all the solutions brings the whole system falling down.
“A news report out today tells us that the weekend will be cold. An “arctic blast” is said to be on its way.
“Of course, some parts of the city already feel as though they were in a nuclear winter. London’s main industry is finance. And finance has iced up. A headline in yesterday’s paper told us that London is expected to lose 370,000 jobs over the next two years. . . .”
http://tinyurl.com/5pqc43 http://tinyurl.com/69gzh9
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For the financial fill, here is http://tinyurl.com/6f2z3v
How, pray tell, can sticking to your principles while fostering an air of sharing a common destiny, denote failure, when you attract the abundant goodwill of those with whom you’ve shared? I call it revising the gold standard.
There, I’ve answered my own question.
Hamlet did have a 6th. soliloquy.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 11.19.08 11:59 am
Exactly, PP. Well said!!
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Or is it that we are over governed, over regulated, over civil serviced and lacking in will to confront the truth?
By comrade okie on 11.19.08 4:32 pm
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I am certainly feeling over governed and over regulated. I own my car–it is my property–yet more and more regulations are being legislated about what I can’t do on my own “property”. Just my rant for the day.
Obama is sending us into a depression by the way..
http://www.thecomingdepression.blogspot.com
By The Coming Depression on 11.19.08 4:41 pm
Oh really? and this Oracle like utterance is based on exactly what?
President-elect Obama has not even taken office yet, the reins are still in Dumbo Dubya’s incompetent hands.
BTW, it’s the fault of the people for their own choices, not the President-elect.
I am personally enjoying watching GM (Gasping Mother) go under. Having worked for the arrogant bastards decades ago I could not enjoy watching them DIE more!
They have a track record that, when revealed to the GP (General Public) they will never again be able to manipulate things.
Their manglement deserves to be homeless and desitute, not flying around in provate jets, riding in limos (unless it is the hearse variety), nor treated with respect.
As to Ford, well, the last Ford to run the company was a spolied brat Rich Kid whose only laurel was having the name Ford.
Chrysler has been innovative, and should be the One to survive. Let GM and Ford have the AVRO Arrow experience. You remember that is where all the top talent goes to work for the competition when the government cuts off funding.
They should both get the Deif Treatment!
General Motors spent three billion advertizing the Yukon for 5 years to make $20,000 per unit. They were greedy , very greedy , very very greedy . the general motors invested in Big oil market with the capital they had to play with. Let them die , let them die. For if that was me Harper and Clement would outright say to me die.
By tim pellett on 11.19.08 1:57 pm
See, they should have hired Dudley Moore and his gang of insane nutbars at the asylum like in ‘Crazy People’!
‘Volvo, it’s boxy looking, but it’s safe’
‘Porsche, when you want to get really good head!’
Sure beats the sill Lincoln commercial thinking an SUV is a Starship. Even ‘Starship Troopers’ wouldn’t have gone so silly! Heck, if it was Mel Brooks in ‘Spaceballs’ then I could accept it. LOL
Oh, and who drives their mini-van sideways in a desert intentionally? We wonder where today’s youth (‘youse’ per Joe Peschi) get their ideas on driving? TV! That is where.
As to your future in TTTC’s hands. Simple, you don’t have one Tim! The once Minister of Health (LMAO) is now the Minister of Industry. His best calling would be the Minister of Silly Walks!
Leasa,
open Garth’s link to the Small article, scroll down to page 115 of the CPSR, check the definition of blogroach you will find there, and ask yourself if your work on Garth’s blog does not fit that category.
Don’t just slag Garth. Read his posts and links too.
Courtesy of Dr. Dawg, here is a link to how The Economist analyses the decline of the Republican Party: http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12599247
Palin as “boob bait to Bubba” – did I read that right?
Just finished reading the british news site The Independent and the first headline was a surprise.
“Obama promises to meet the U.S. commitment to Kyoto by target dates with deep yearly cuts to U.S. emissions”
I thought Kyoto was dead?
I wonder if Kaopectate is the cocktail of choice in Ottawa tonight?
Any bets on just how low real estate in Alberta will go this year?
Apparently Obama believes that the only way to get EVERY country on board is for the U.S. to take the lead! I guess it will hit north american msm in the next couple of days once the shock wears off!
Gotta feel real sorry for Dion now, a man 6 months ahead of his time.
By Herb on 11.18.08 10:43 pm.
Kind of silly comment. I wonder if it is possible to move beyond the petty digs.
By David Halfkenny on 11.18.08 10:43 pm.
Exactly. I agree 100% with your comment.
By East of Eden on 11.19.08 6:51 am
Whether the digs are petty or are appropriate varies with the position of whether it is the digee or digger! Any one who has worked in an office, industrial setting or crew that share a coffee break/lunch table will know that some times those digs are more than overdue and needed to massage the team ego and ethos. These frequently bring the group back into line with the desired working relationship, and other times it may get out of hand to cause unwanted damage. The nature of the digging needs to be carefully monitored and guided for the desired results to occur. Some people need to have some of their square corners sanded down a bit to fit into the team!
Well, lesseee. The US-owned glass plant in Lavington closed permanently about a month ago, with approx. 300 jobs gone. Yesterday, Bigfoot Mfg. closed for good in Spallumcheen, and about 200 jobs are toast, all in the north Okanagan.
23 positions will be gone by Jan. 2 from CHBC-TV (owned by CanWest), so I guess there is always something else that can fall!
With the BC govt. now in the process of spending close to a billion bucks — Vernon Jubilee Hospital and Kelowna General Hospital are having close to half a billion spent on new projects, two extensions already in progress on Hwy. 97 (one north, one south of Kelowna), the debacle for the past three to four weeks with the shifting rocks / cliffs between Summerland and Peachland, seems like everyone has money to spend, except us!
http://tinyurl.com/5d8yks http://tinyurl.com/6azabk
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Ford has a new state-of-the-art plant in Brazil (there was a pic on wrh.com).
This link says that GM is going to invest in Brazil, yet they are begging for a bailout. \
The ‘bailout’ is not for plants or workers; it is to fatten the top dogs’ pockets.
Remember the song “One Thing Leads To Another”? GE and Citigroup may be headed for the last hurrah!
http://tinyurl.com/5verdh http://tinyurl.com/5hsb4a http://tinyurl.com/6xvqrh
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BTW, a week or two ago someone asked a question of Putin, re: what he would have done with the president of Georgia, a US-puppet.
Putin replied that he would have hung Mikheil Saakashvili by his balls”, until he remembered that dubya had hung Sadaam based on lies. Putin chose to let him live instead.
Charles Oxley—im posting the link about GM from your post what a slap in the face to taxpayers in Canada and the US (i thought these bailouts were to preserve jobs in Canada and the US?????????>>>>>>>GM to invest 1 bln dollars in Brazil
http://www.chinaview.cn 2008-11-19 15:56:11 Print
Special Report: Global Financial Crisis
BRAZILIA, Nov. 18 (Xinhua) — The General Motors Corporation (GM) has decided to invest 1 billion U.S. dollars in Brazil to expand business there, local media reported Tuesday.
The investment was part of a U.S. bailout package and would be used to upgrade car production lines before 2012, said Djame Adila, a GM’s official in charge of the markets in Brazil and other member-countries of the South American Common Market which also groups Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay and Venezuela.
Although the company has laid off employees in some other countries in face of the current U.S. financial crisis, it still needs time to valuate the Brazilian market before making any decision, said Adila, adding that a recent announcement of a 3.5-billion-dollar loan plan to automakers by the Brazilian government should boost the car sales in the Brazilian market.
“To withdraw capital from an expanding market is obviously illogical. What we should do is to protect investment to the emerging markets,” Adila said.
The company’s car sale at the Brazilian market is expected to reach 2.9 million units in 2009, while that for this year is to reach 2.85 million, up 15 percent from last year.
I’ve been more reading than blogging these days (don’t have the time), just wanna drop a quick line to say that your pieces as of late have been of a very high standard. (not to say that your past pieces haven’t been as well, but I’ve enjoyed your most recent especially)
It is my belief that there will be more people running as independents who will run on their personal reputation more than they will, the reputation of their party of choice. In my crystal ball, I see MP candidates who will run with the promise of joining a party but only after the election is over and not any time real soon. Wups! Times up! Gotta go, had a big rant coming as well but we’ll have to save it for another time. Take care, all (yeah, even Leasa, dragging my feet somewhat with that one, but even her too).
By John on 11.20.08 12:16 am
So is the problem with GM and Ford confirned to their NA operations?
From your reports, it seems their South American operations are doing just fine.
And if this is the case, why should the South American operations subsidises the high cost NA. ones?
Leasa,
open Garth’s link to the Small article, scroll down to page 115 of the CPSR, check the definition of blogroach you will find there, and ask yourself if your work on Garth’s blog does not fit that category.
Don’t just slag Garth. Read his posts and links too.
By Herb on 11.19.08 8:25 pm
——————–
Here is the definition of blogroach, in context.
========
To employ blog jargon, the Unedited commentariat contains a number of
“blogroaches.” A “blogroach” is a poster that constantly disagrees with posted content. This makes this
web site quite different from the typical web sites of legislators, which are promotional. By and large
Turner does not edit comments. He accepts that people will “trash him” on the blog, but does not avoid
such comments because it demonstrates “a willingness to listen to all voices” (Turner 2008). Unedited
allows for a free exchange of commentary on Canadian political issues. This unfettered nature
sometimes results in hostilities between Garth Turner and posters and posters with other posters.
Welcome to the Electoral College…Liberal Party style.
Liberals stuck in the last century
Under the current Liberal system, anyone who joins the party can take part in votes to select delegates to the actual convention. The delegates are bound to vote for specific candidates only on the first ballot. After that, they can vote for whomever they want. As well, there are hundreds more delegates from women’s associations and youth clubs, and some 800 automatic ex-officio delegates.
Hello, LPOC? The year is 2008. It is the Third Millenium, the 21st Century! Earth to LPOC. Try Democracy in your own house if you want new members.
[...] so Garth doesn’t slip into the dustbin of Canadian politics, you might want to check out his latest post and leave a “thank-you for blessing the [...]
Bruce MacKinnon’s cartoon today. As always, excellent.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/toon.php
Palin as “boob bait to Bubba” – did I read that right?
By Herb on 11.19.08 8:48 pm
ROFLMAO! There is my morning Waker Upper! Thanks Herb.
A few thoughts on Real Estate.
The Top 10 things You Don’t Want To Hear From Your Real Estate Agent When You Close Your New Home
1. “I think unexplained crop circles add a unique flair to any home’s garden.”
2. “Actually, it’s only the rear portion of the yard that overlaps the ancient Indian burial ground.”
3. “Yes, the last owner did donate the house to the Hell’s Angels, but I’m told that the judge has ordered them not to come within 50 feet of it.”
4. “One bleeding toilet doesn’t necessarily mean it’s haunted.”
5. “Your neighbour has assured me that, technically, they’re not ‘killer’ bees.”
6. “Even if there was a full-scale mud slide, it’s unlikely that it would reach as far back as your property.”
7. “It’s quite common for roaches to grow that big even when not in the presence of radioactivity.”
8. “Did you know that the band Grave Raper holds their practice sessions right next door?”
9. “It’s true that they died in the house, but the prosecutor was never actually able to prove it was murder.”
10. “You can barely hear the sheet metal factory at night.”
I suggest you contact your local council and police services board,
By James – Chatham on 11.19.08 5:40 pm
Our greater area of NB is policed by the RCMP James. They work under contract and provide policing for the city and all the rural areas. In fact their territory overall stretches to the N.S. border going south, and to Charlottetown going east. I am in a rural area with no council but there are 2 cities and a town close that use the RCMP and have councils. It is their councillors I refered to and most are not happy but seem resigned to the extra costs. There is some rumbling about going back to municipal forces but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
I have seen this syndrome before when I lived in Ontario and even before that. A steady methodical increase of about 6 to 8% yearly and there are no shortage of justifications for the increases if one asks the police departments to justify their requests. Anyone can do that.
I believe there are a number of reasons for this, not the least of which is Empire building. There are also many factors that many outsiders don’t know of like how hiring policy, justice dept. policies and correction services policy affects total policing costs. All of which present problems that require more money and some of which is due to reduced effectiveness. Another significant factor is the police forces themselves encouraging people to call them for every whip stitch. Many many of their calls end up as dead files but still they want people to call and get them involved. It’s nanny state mentality at its finest as they have assumed an attitude that we the people are no longer capable of looking after our own affairs.
Besides that, it justifies ever increasing numbers of police, support staff and increased budgets.
I have found police to be far too concerned with trivial matters and far too ineffective in cases where they should be doing something significant. I don’t blame them entirely for the latter, as I know the policy decisions made by civil servants and laws passed by politicians have had a hobbling effect as well.
I moved to this area recently, so in an effort to be fair and acquire a more rounded view, I have asked locals their opinions on the local police and I think this one opinion speaks for itself. “glorified meter maids”.
I’m not going to harangue on this point forever, as I think it more representative of a larger scale financial issue but I will say that I don’t believe we the tax payer need to be hit up year after year in this way. I remember when I lived in Guelph marvelling at the amount of vehicles sitting idle in the police parking lot any given time of day. Plus seeing as many as 6 police cars on a street that led to the University area at 8:30 a.m. This was not uncommon and it wasn’t a bad part of town. I see similar activity here on a local bridge that takes us to the city. There are RCMP cars on the bridge or on the entrance lanes over 50% of the time when I travel to the city. Which is fairly often. Time of day doesn’t seem to matter much. Guelph’s police sought similar increases in funds yearly as well.
I think that given our current financial situation, publicly funded organizations should be looking to keep costs from escalating and work to curb their instincts that the public purse is a bottomless pit.
By John on 11.20.08 12:16 am
Remember when Chevy broguht the Nova to South America? The word Nova means ‘Won’t go!’ in their language. Brilliant market research GM!
GM, and the rest should focus on North American jobs first, but alas, they are only patriotic to themselves, not their country. Perhaps Brazil, Argentina, or some other South American country can help them out?
Oh, and it was reported last night that the Southern U.S. States are now going after the manufacturing business.
The reason Globalism is a failure is because it always goes to the Other Guys.
Home Plate is still where the game is won you might say.
Hey, maybe Lada in Russia will start exporting. Then people can relive the wonderful experience of the Yugo? LOL
BTW, anyone hear when China will start exporting their vehicles? Free markets are great…aren’t they? Let’s all get McJobs so we too can buy a new vehicle made by American and Canadian refugees in a foreign country.
Meanwhile, back home the CAW and UAW are saying they will not budge on their position. Well, okay then, how about you all grab a beer, some popcorn, a milk crate and you can sit tight on the sidewalks.
Cars are still way overpriced. We are to ones paying for that error. Had enough Canada?
Oh, and buy Chinese because you are helping support a poor family, poorer than yours.
Feel good now? Where is Sally Struthers when we need a good pity party hostess?
General Motors spent three billion advertizing the Yukon for 5 years to make $20,000 per unit. They were greedy , very greedy , very very greedy . the general motors invested in Big oil market with the capital they had to play with. Let them die , let them die. For if that was me Harper and Clement would outright say to me die.
By tim pellett on 11.19.08 1:57 pm
Are you saying that GM spent $3 billion per year for 5 years or a total of $3 billion over 5 years? In terms of the $20,000 per unit what are you quoting? Contribution margin? Net profit before tax – after tax????? Assuming that your numbers are $3 billion over years years and the $20,000 is contribution margin GM would have needed to sell 150,000 units over that 5 year period just to pay for the advertising.
What is the source of your “facts”? Most companies would not post data available to the public on how much money was spent advertising a particular model, nor would they typically announce their margin or profit on a model.
The trick to marketing is not to meet a demand with your products, but to create a demand for your products. Here Detroit and Madison Avenue have outdone themselves. How many years of impact advertising have there been of he-men driving trucks, hockey moms driving vans, cool dads and dudes driving SUVs, and real women turned on by power?
Congratulations to the Big Three for having hoist themselves on their own petard. Of course there will be demonstrations of official reluctance to bail them out, but the requirement to protect the victims of their greed demands that the bill be passed to the general public, and so it will be.
So is the problem with GM and Ford confirned to their NA operations?
From your reports, it seems their South American operations are doing just fine.
And if this is the case, why should the South American operations subsidises the high cost NA. ones?
By James – Chatham on 11.20.08 8:26 am
I think you misunderstood my point James.–>>> First off in my opinion we have no business and our government has no right to squander our tax dollars into a private enterprise that is going to fail anyway (where will our tax dollars go? Brazil perhaps). Im sure American taxpayers feel warm all over about their billion in aid going to Brazil. A glimpse at the stock market today should give a good indication of how many people will be in the market for a luxury item such as a new car in the forseeable future.
Nice to see that the Detroit 3 CEOs have not lost the use of their private jets during their companies slide to bankruptcy. To think, they might have to fly first class eventually, if their companies get any worse. Until the CEOs show up with a ticket stub showing they flew economy, then they should get no subsidies at all.
His best calling would be the Minister of Silly Walks!
By Bill-Muskoka (not anymore) on 11.19.08 7:14 pm
Okay Bill, but that means you have to make John Cleese your new Prim-minister
Hey! what a great idea. Definitely an improvement over the present jokers.
Okay Bill, but that means you have to make John Cleese your new Prim-minister
Hey! what a great idea. Definitely an improvement over the present jokers.
By A.R.Wainwright on 11.20.08 4:20 pm
A wonderful idea actually. As ‘Q’ he can make what we need to fix what is a threat!
‘Lupiens! Lupiens! Get your Lupiens!’
I recently learned that Senator Larry Campbell has a blog that allows comments. Campbell was mayor of Vancouver, where he previously worked as a coroner (as dramatized on Da Vinci’s Inquest). Unfortunately he does not write as much as Garth does. http://larrycampbell.ca/