Tomorrow in Parliament the finance minister will deliver an economic statement and begin a process of trying to save the nation from financial ruin. If he repeats the statement he gave during a television interview this week, he will say:
“Eight weeks is a long time. When you look at what’s happened in the global economy in the last week eight weeks, it’s staggering. And the election was called in September. No one in September – no one – had ever suggested the Canadian economy might go into recession, and that is now a definite possibility.”
This, of course, is a lie. The Canadian election was called early – just days before MPs were to go back and debate the economy – because the government and its bureaucrats knew the crap storm which was coming. During that election we wasted precious weeks when Canada could have been preparing. Instead, we were told (a) Canada is not the US, (b) our economy is solid, (c) our banks are perfect and (d) there will never be a deficit.
Last week at APEC our prime minister alluded to 1929 and said this is about as bad as it gets. The OECD (and every economist) says we’re in recession. The banks are issuing new shares in a falling market to raise money. Ottawa bailed out Bay Street with $75,000,000,000 in tax money. The deficit could be $14 billion within a year, says the Parliamentary Budget Officer.
Is the finance minister an idiot? Or does he think we are?
For the record, Mr. Flaherty, below are words published here at least eight weeks ago. You know, because you and your boss read them.
September 15 (nine weeks ago)…
The full implications of this can’t be clearly seen by anyone at the moment, but I’d say this is what Canadians can expect:
* The stock market will be hammered, eroding the value of every investor’s portfolio, RRSP and pension. This brings household wealth down, drops confidence and is nothing but negative news for real estate as liquidity is drained away in financial losses.
* Credit is going to be a lot harder to find. Banks on both sides of the border have already pulled their horns in a little, and that can only accelerate. Look for far tighter restrictions on loans and mortgages to new borrowers, to builders, for renovation and lines of credit.
* An inevitable result is a sharp acceleration in the decline of the Canadian market. Without a steady flow of new investors and buckets of borrowed money, there is no alternative, especially in real estate markets where prices are unsustainable…
Those Canadians who thought we could end up with a five-month adjustment, after the Americans have been through a three-year Armageddon, had better think again. This is just the beginning, pushed along by big events like those unfolding on Wall Street and in Washington this week.
Circle these days. You’ll want to recall when the lights started failing.
September 17 (nine weeks ago)…
We’re in the early days of a credit freeze which will affect almost everybody in North America, and most voters in all Canadian ridings now being contested. What’s happening on Wall Street, on Bay Street, on financial markets globally, will not stop there. Already the contagion has wiped billions off the worth of the American middle class, and the next phase could hobble that country itself. To think we’re immune is delusional.
North American stock markets have plunged. More than 20% of all the wealth represented by the Toronto market has been erased in the last 90 days. Three of the biggest investment banks in America have failed. The largest US mortgage companies were taken over by the government. The biggest insurance company is a basket case. At least a hundred more US banks could fail. Liquidity in the world’s largest capitalist country has evaporated. America’s triple-A credit rating is being called into question.
Here’s what this means to Canadians.
Soon – two or four or six months from now – getting a bank loan, mortgage or line of credit will be tougher. First-time homebuyers, people needed refinancings to pay debts, retirees, entrepreneurs and small business owners could be SOL. Banks will simply recoil from risk.
The residential real estate market could be choked off in the process. With mortgages tight, the economy slowing and unemployment rising, the ranks of buyers will be thinner. Desperate sellers will cut prices in a spiral which has already started. For the past nine months I’ve forecast a decline of between 15% and 40%, depending on the housing market. I may have been too optimistic.
Commodity prices, especially oil, could tumble as a serious and multi-year recession dramatically quenches America’s thirst for energy. This has already begun, as crude gyrates wildly, rising and falling more than $100 a barrel this year alone.
Oil might actually go right back to $50, making the oil sands marginal. Combined with a deep freeze on bank credit, well, so much for the Western miracle.
Overall, expect a sharp economic slowdown, the erasing of billions of dollars in real estate equity and retirement savings, and a new normal of falling consumer prices – and incomes – which could last several years.
Now, to the politics of the matter….
Putting Mr. Harper back in office will guarantee the picture I’ve painted will come to pass. In this election he hasn’t said his reckless spending will stop, that he’s got a jobs plan or understands the real estate market. His government has no money left, and even spent the contingency reserve. When the economy sputters later this year and into the Spring, revenues will fall and deficits result.
This is the greatest threat the Canadian middle class has faced in a generation. Just the housing woes alone will be painful. Look south for a preview.
October 1st (eight weeks ago)…
This much, we know. The US economy is in recession and the times will get worse for months and months to come. The mess, as feared, has slopped over onto everyone. Canada, Europe, China – all will be impacted. Commodity prices will keep going down for a while, along with real estate. Billions more will be lost. This is the start, not the end.
Banks will fail, but not here. Ours will just stop lending money to lots of people and businesses. Condo developments will go bust. Marginal companies won’t make it. Car sales will fade with car loans. Inflation will become deflation. And you can stop worrying about high gas prices.
Debts will become unrepayable for many people, so I hope you have few. Interest rates will be going down as central bankers try everything to stop bad from becoming worse. Albertans, and the oil sands, will not be so envied soon. Prices for just about everything will fall, as will the value of your home.
Regardless of whether or not the $700 billion financial bailout passes the Senate tonight or Congress on Thursday, global confidence has been dealt a major blow. With less confidence, there is less credit. And without free flowing credit, economic expansion stalls. This is what terrorized stock markets on Monday, and will continue to do so.
I suppose it is possible the United States could slump into a quasi-depression, taking us with it. But that’s unlikely. A protracted recession – a year or two of negative growth – is quite possible. Investment portfolios could lose a third to a half of their value. Home equity will fade by, perhaps by as much in certain markets. The value of your mortgage will not fall, even though your wages might. This is deflation – when cash grows in value because every other asset is declining.
Although Stephen Harper did not know the events of today would take place, he knew the danger of imminent financial chaos. So did I. And if you’ve read this blog, so did you. I have spelled out the reasons for real estate deflation, falling family net worth, a protracted US downturn and the considerable impacts on Canada. I told you how the Harper government policies of 0/40 mortgages and of cutting the GST instead of income taxes would make us more vulnerable. And I have detailed why massive higher government spending and a blowing of our surplus would make such a time as this more difficult.
Harper knew the danger, as did the finance department, the head of the Bank of Canada, the PMO strategists, and you and I. That’s why he alone triggered the election, not chancing to wait for Parliament during the very dangerous month of September, when he’d have to answer to the people daily.
119 comments ↓
I suspect that the present situation was plainly discussed at the Premiers conference in early July. Coincidently the G8 met in the same week where economic facts were plainly exposed. The Provincial Leaders emerged from their meeting fully briefed on what to expect and prepare for as evidenced by the sombre tone of their communiqués.
http://www.policyalternatives.ca/news/2008/11/pressrelease2020/?pa=BB736455
good read
The`re are saying they cut the GST in anticipation of an economic down turn. That`s slick trick when “No one in September – no one – had ever suggested the Canadian economy might go into recession”
Clairvoyance is not the hallmark of the Cdn government, lying always has been.
Other events from that first week of July 08 included the shutting down of the Vancouver stock exchange for several days, the hacking of CBC Newsworld broadcast for about 90 seconds one night by someone who thought the symbol of the Chinese Yuan on a golden pedestal made an appropriate statement. The election was scheduled shortly after.
Isn`t this freaking wonderful—lies & I mean outright lies , by our own Prime Minister & His minions.
We are the people–we own his ass & still he lied & continues to lie to us.
Where will this all stop–when the stock market reaches zero , when North America becomes the Prime Minister`s Conservative right winged Oyster.
It is time for a change.
So who can we count on??–our opposition parties??–got to wonder about that one don`t we.
So far these same parties have pretty much left us twisting in the wind–of course , their world has not come crashing down as yet as has been the lot of so many newly unemployed Canadians .
Maybe it`s time they became personally accountable—-maybe it is time to compensate them according to their performance as is the case in the real world—-how long would they work for zero pay before they realized maybe they were the problem & not us.
Dr Mike Popovich—totally pissed-off in Rodney.
As usual its refreshing to get the truth –thanks Garth.Honesty is always the best policy,every time they lie they have to tell a hundred more to justify the first one and on and on….Anyone who has confidence in this government is a sucker over and over again…..In fact i have been sitting here trying to think of anything they have told the whole truth about? Is “lack of confidence” not a tool of parliament to end a disaster? Time for the opposition to do their job i think?
Instead, we were told (a) Canada is not the US, (b) our economy is solid, (c) our banks are perfect and (d) there will never be a deficit. – Garth
And why did Flaherty and Harper say these things at that time? Because every economist in Canada, worth their salt, was predicting the cooling effects of the credit freeze to the south was coming north.
Who’s the idiot? Both Flaherty and Canadians, the former because he doesn’t know which way is up when it comes to running a country’s finances, and the latter for not realising his boss, Harper, doesn’t realise Flaherty’s an idiot and re-elected them both!
Check out Peter Schiff on the upcoming collapse of the US dollar and huge rise of GOLD coming. Incidentally the cheapest place to BUY GOLD is from the Scotia Bank in Halifax and Toronto. If the US dollar is going down 90% and the Canadian dollar is 25% less now. What will that make the Cdn. dollar?
http://www.thecomingdepression.blogspot.com
Funny, you were all in favour of a GST cut when you were a Conservative.
There was no economic crisis then. When the economy started to turn, I campaigned vigorously for an income tax cut rather than a second GST cut, as did virtually all economists. We were right. — Garth
By James – Chatham on 11.26.08 11:49 am
Only 1 in 5 Cdns voted CPC while 2 out on 5 voted none of the above, it appears there are a lot less `stupid Cdns` than you portray. You`re being totally unfair to Cdn voters when their choice was between a no-plan plan or the GreenST. Cdns have been worried about the economy since before the last election and were offered a carbon tax as a solution, what do you expect?
don`t blame me, I never voted
Canada to be hit by recession, 7.5% jobless rate, OECD warns
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2008/11/25/oecd-report.html?ref=rss
CBC INTERVIEW—MAYOR JOHN GRAY OSHAWA
http://www.cbc.ca/video/popup.html?/mrl3/8752/vsu/wmv-lo/invu-gray-081121.wmv
Oshawa’s 96% jump in employment insurance recipients leads country
CBC.ca, Canada—16 hours ago
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2008/11/25/unemployment-stats.html
CBC MOTHER PAGE—ECONOMIC NEWS
ALL THE CON MF/in incompetents doublespeak
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/economy/
I can hardly wait for Flaherty to hold the economic bridge in the best Monty Python manner, break into the Black Knight two-step and proclaim “Only a flesh wound!” -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno&mode=related&search=
Trouble is, he won’t be suffering – we will be.
CANADA
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/7/2/20209192.pdf
MEANWHILE … CANADIAN TAXPAYERS WERE BEING SEXUALLY ABUSED UNDER THE MANTLE OF MINISTERIAL TRAVEL COSTS. I believe the term is SKA-REWED!
BERNIER’S FLIGHT TO AUSTRALIA WAS HIGHEST FARE
http://www.thestar.com/article/541681
I’m willing to train ANY AND ALL who wish to learn how to tie a hangman’s knot.
“NO KISSES” FLAHERTY IN RELAXED MODE!
http://multimedia.thestar.com/images/6e/60/3d0b0e6c4dde9007bc36ee1fafc1.jpeg
FLAHERTY IS AVOIDING ANY APPEARANCE IN H o C while delegating Menzies as his spokesman. Wouldn’t the ABUSE OF “FRANKING PRIVILEGES” go good now?
Thanks Garth for the truth. Be Careful what you ask for Canada…. better still be very careful who you voted for. The Canadian voter got exactly what they ask for…so beit! As mentioned before, the West is in and they loved George W Bush, and now they have once again have his personal clone (Remember the Billion dollar soft wood birthday present to GWB)Stephen Harper with his steady hand on the tiller… there are no people on the face of this earth more smarter than Albertans…. just ask em? Harper Country Rules… so we need not worry?
“There was no economic crisis then. When the economy started to turn, I campaigned vigorously for an income tax cut rather than a second GST cut, as did virtually all economists. We were right. — Garth”
Interesting the UK decided to cut their VAT rate from 17.5% to 15% (temporarily) as an economic stimulus in response to the current crisis. They seem to think a VAT (equivalent to our GST) cut provides a better stimulus to the economy than an income tax cut.
It’s not working, is it? — Garth
A colleague went to school with Flaherty at Loyola High School (a private Jesuit boys school at the time) in Montreal. He doesn’t remember too much about him except that he “wasn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer”.
Just what we need in troubled times.
It’s snowing again. I think I’m going to hibernate.
Clairvoyance is not the hallmark of the Cdn government, lying always has been.
By buddy, spare a dime? on 11.26.08 11:16 am
Don’t forget the penchant of the politico to make best efforts to control the flow of information, especially when it is contrary to the Gobellian objectives.
Oh, and lying is the avenue of last resort. Sometimes. The Canadian public and the public in general are only uninformed, could care less idiots after all. One could ask our host about that. Especially about the editing for effect.
The White Knight appears to be turning color. And Brutus spoke kindly at times. I wonder if he adopted a furry dog too?
Not to worry, all is well and in good hands. Daddy Paulson loves you. As does Comrade Hu.
It’s not working, is it? — Garth
By dave roberts on 11.26.08 1:55 pm
What is?
Feds create private public partnership for pension funds. BCE deal falls apart leaving mega bucks pensions available. Can`t get international investors to invest in Cdn industry to create jobs, np, use pension funds to spend our way out of recession with pension funds by creating infrastructure jobs. Must be a Rae of sunshine somewhere in that thought.
So much for denying restoring international investor confidence in Canada is critical to the future of Cdn industry as now witnessed by the past and now abandonment in favor of infrastructure jobs producing limited short term relief.
don`t blame me,
I brought up international investor confidence a year ago in the middle of the last election so I don`t expect it`ll be news now that we`re a full 6 weeks into the next federal election.
It’s snowing again. I think I’m going to hibernate.
By CM on 11.26.08 1:55 pm
Now THERE is a PLAN! LOL
Wake me up January 20th, 2009 so I can see a REAL leader take office, eh?
Wow, are you saying politicians lie? That is news to us all.
Since B.C. is heading for an election, we seem to have a firewall built around our province. While the world is burning in red ink, The B.C. Liberals will be able to cut taxes, increase spending, and balance the budget. The Opposition, will be able to do even better. They will be able to cut more taxes, increase spending more then the Liberals propose, axe the carbon tax and balance the budget. Good thing we have this firewall around our province, or that our politicians a lying through their teeth, but that would never happen in this politically correct world we are living in. And we wonder why voter turnout is so low. Maybe if these clowns could speak some truth, we might actually trust them, and feel compelled to go cast a vote for one of them. None of the above will win my vote, or perhaps another Green protest vote will be cast.
“Is the finance minister an idiot?”
———————————–
Why yes, yes he most assuredly is!!!
“It’s not working, is it? — Garth”
I think they cut the VAT last week. Can they tell if it has worked this quickly?
Interesting how garth published my last comment but has blocked posts and links that could be construed as supporting the Harper government and those that might seem anti Mr. Obama.
What was that story from Mount Allison University about leading digital democracy?
Remember Garth, I am born of Soldiers. Nobody, but nodody bullshits me.
No Con, no Lib. Nobody.
Print this if you want. Don’t if that tickles your fancy. Don’t much matter to me. It only matters to some when they look themselves in the eye when they shave in the morning.
None of your posts have been blocked or deleted. Perhaps they were caught in the fillter and I will check. Say, soldier, was that a threat? — Garth
don`t blame me, I never voted
By buddy, spare a dime? on 11.26.08 12:33 pm
Ok. for the 2 out of 5 that didn’t vote CPC, I apologise. My brush was too big.
For those that did vote CPC, and those who didn’t vote, my comment stands.
To the former, thanks alot for electing a PM who doesn’t realise his finance minister is incompetant and should have been fired.
To the latter, ‘If you chose not to decide, you still have made a choice.’
Certainly it was a case, as always, of picking the lesser of evils; but its your right, responsibility, and duty to do so. (I would have you doing 30 days for not voting!)
Any comments you make, regardless of topic, or viewpoint means nothing.
Spare you a dime? If you couldn’t be bothered to vote, Jock McBile has the appropriate saying! – Get ……
Well, looking past all the gobble-dee-gook, Canada is still fairing better than the rest of the world to date. I say, that’s pretty darn good. I still wonder what shape we’d be in if we were facing the dreaded Green Shift? As a farmer…I feel like we really dodged a bullet there!!!
Keep up the good work Mr. Flaherty and Harper!
I never threaten Garth. I have seen too much blood to contemplate that as an option.
Only little men threaten. The likes of the President of the United States and those guys from where the oil comes from.
What concerns me is, how juvenile the thought process of the recognized world leaders appears to be.
It’s what Wars are made of.
Somethings that a Soldier remembers.
Your posts were in the filter, and I liberated them. Relax already. — Garth
Nobody, but nodody bullshits me.
By Comrade Okie on 11.26.08 2:52 pm
They say it is hard to bullshit a bullshiter
Leasa: Your concern for your own well-being is understandable. The fact that Flaherty and Harper left the cupboards so they are unable to help those who are losing their good-paying jobs is a travesty. You laud leaders who had no foresight, no concern for the middle class. I guess being a farmer with all the subsidies your industry receives is cause to rejoice.
Seems to me the farmers always get the long end of the stick.
How ’bout the same treatment for manufacturing, forestry and textile workers.
There was no economic crisis then. When the economy started to turn, I campaigned vigorously for an income tax cut rather than a second GST cut, as did virtually all economists. We were right. — Garth
I guess that’s why the labour (left of centre) party of England is now lowering the VAT. You know that value added tax, just like our own GST. the one your good pal chretian said he was going to scrap.
The Brits are trying everything and anything, just like the Americans. No proof it will work, and I doubt it will. Why are you unable to spell the name of a guy who was prime minister for eight years? — Garth
Dave Roberts: I guess the finance minister is as sharp as ours.
In the U.K. the drop in the VAT will save the average citizen 3 cents on a $7.00 bottle of shampoo that we buy here for 2.99.
Dave we have had a GST cut for 2 years—it is not stimulating the economy. Harper and Flaherty just announced an economy that looks like 1929!!!
And now they say they are not going to do anything until the new year–but they are going to beat the Americans with shovels in the ground.
So now Harper and Flaherty are challenging Obama to an infrastructure spending race. Betcha we get started before you take office on Jan. 20th.
Jerks!!!!
By dave roberts on 11.26.08 1:55 pm
From BBC News
The report says 370,000 jobs could be lost in London (7.9% of all jobs in London) by December 2012
170,000 in Yorkshire & Humberside (6.8%)
230,000 in the North West (6.7%)
180,000 in the West Midlands (6.6%)
280,000 in the South East (6.3%)
130,000 in the East Midlands (6.0%)
170,000 in the East (6.0%)
70,000 in the North East (5.7%)
130,000 in the South West (5.1%
Nuff said…..for Britian…
Other News my phone just rang and it was a call on behalf of PMSH asking for a donation….? Hello… another trip to see the GG… has this man no shame?
In England the VAT is added in the sticker price of goods. I wish our PST and GST were the same that what the price tag says, is what we pay total. I would suspect that the current prices in England are not lowered the 2% as the retailer would want some compensation for their time to change the price tags I would think.
If you couldn’t be bothered to vote, Jock McBile has the appropriate saying! – Get ……
By James – Chatham on 11.26.08 3:09 pm
lol, in many ways I`ve agreed with you James but on this if you voted you`re …… anywhichway it would come out, you know it, I know it and so does at least 40% of Cdns which you conveniently tell to fuddle duddle just because they refuse to support a system that does nothing but electioneer 24/7/365.
Sorry bud but even if the Libs won a majority I`d still be saying it, don`t blame me, it`s the system that`s broken, not Cdns.
Hint, try getting people to vote for a plan rather than against the worst.
Keep up the good work Mr. Flaherty and Harper!
By Leasa on 11.26.08 3:22 pm
Maybe implementing the Green Shift wouldn’t have been a smart thing to do at this time. But, the Green Shift wasn’t in place before this mess happened.
Canada being in better shape than most is a case of “no thanks to Harper and Flaherty.” It takes more than the two years they had to get a country in sound shape. No, Leasa, they inherited a strong system.
They were saying everything was fine going into the election. What a misjudgement of the situation.
They can’t claim that the GST cuts were planned stimulus. Why would a government provide stimulus when the economy is good and inflation is running at the high end of BoC targets? No, Leasa, it was the pure ideology of lowering the hated GST (to gain votes) and cutting the surplus.
You set a pretty low standard when it comes to good work.
Nobody, but nodody bullshits me.
By Comrade Okie on 11.26.08 2:52 pm
They say it is hard to bullshit a bullshiter
By Caper on 11.26.08 3:59 pm
And you base your astute observations on what exactly?
Addendum to my last…. Remember when I wrote that this ride down will last until 2015…. as apposed to “Dubya” saying only 18 months… and “Steve” saying; Canada is in better shape than the US…. Once again hang on to your hats…. By the way the G&M poll now states that 68% of people are worried about their job (s)!!!! hello and add this to a host of other concerns….. Think…if the auto industry tanks, how will we get food to the grocery stores and other stables of life as the repair shops shut down along with parts …Honda and Toyota do not have the shops to fix em… by the way the engines in the trains are GM’s …. So you see how complex this issue is….. Hope Harper and Flaherty are not off shopping at Home Depot for shovels as they have announced many store closures…. Rick Mercer would have ball showing these clowns running to the door with the RCMP out in front finding the store marked closed and empty! It’s all yours free Rick..db
The Brits are trying everything and anything, just like the Americans. No proof it will work, and I doubt it will. Why are you unable to spell the name of a guy who was prime minister for eight years? — Garth
No Garth, they have NOT done everything, much less anything of meaningfulness.
The ONE thing that is needed, has been for decades, and will not happen until things are so unrescuable is ridding the financial system of compounded interest.
Usury is too nice a name for this plague upon people’s lives.
Charging interest upon interest is illegal for pawn brokers but only based on the exhorbitant rate they charge. It is the reason people make minimum payments because that scenario prevents the principle from being foreclosed.
There has to be fresh thinking, but these who worship at the Temple of the Money Changers will never recant unless forced to by LAW.
Why should people have to repay 300% of the principle on their mortgage? Please, name one sound, logical reason? Anyone?
For most people their home is their largest investment in OUR economy. It keeps a lot more people employed than the Big 3 ever have. Time to ante up and deal with this ripoff policy.
Want to protect jobs, and the economy? There is the NUMBER ONE ANSWER! The REAL solution to both problems of debt reduction!
Same goes for credit cards!
The people dance round in circle and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and KNOWS!
By Judy on 11.26.08 4:02 pm
Judy, the liberals killed off all the textile industry in this country years ago. They also helped most of our manufacturers out the door and delivered us to China. You know that. Subsidy for farmers was also killed off thanks to the Liberals…again in handing our industry over to China et el. Where ya been?
In facing an economic crisis, we are better off looking to the positive than the negative, at least until it’s over. Canada in comparison to the rest of the world IS doing quite well. Let’s just hope we can keep our heads collectively and look for solutions and quit all the personal childish vendettas. At least the CPC hasn’t panicked and sold out our health care, military, social services, education like Paul Martin did. That’s a good thing…right Judy?
Hello… another trip to see the GG… has this man no shame?
By David Bakody on 11.26.08 4:17 pm
I would imagine Bush is very jealous of Harper at this point. Bush HAS TO STAY until January 20th. By then the shit should be well over his head (He is already gargling it)! This should be called the Jerimiah Syndrome, similar to the China Syndrome where you know you are toast one way or another!
The Brits are trying everything and anything, just like the Americans. No proof it will work, and I doubt it will. Why are you unable to spell the name of a guy who was prime minister for eight years? — Garth
Garth, Would you bail out the big three by throwing money at them regardless that they have refused to see the light and change their vehicle models? Would you throw money at the banks? Would you throw money at forestry? I for one is quite aware of the problem we are facing and am getting sick and tired of all this gloom and doom. What I want to hear is solutions and since you appear to fancy yourself an expert what are you solutions? According to you the government has done nothing right. So stop bitching about it and start offering solutions. How about it Garth.
Spare you a dime? If you couldn’t be bothered to vote, Jock McBile has the appropriate saying! – Get ……
By James – Chatham on 11.26.08 3:09 pm
AMEN!
A colleague went to school with Flaherty at Loyola High School (a private Jesuit boys school at the time) in Montreal. He doesn’t remember too much about him except that he “wasn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer”.
Just what we need in troubled times.
It’s snowing again. I think I’m going to hibernate. By CM on 11.26.08 1:55 pm
Hi Cm – We got about 30 cm’s over the weekend. My husband did our driveway & 2 others. Today it went up to 9c today so we have very liitle snow left on the lawn except for snowbanks in front. Welcome to winter.
Got to vent. My husband’s workplace has again said employees will exchange gifts – meaningless garbage mostly. He & another friend would rather not.
Thirty two years ago the same practice was the norm here in the large office in which I worked. After a yr. or 2, I managed to convince the rest of staff to instead donate that money to those less fortunate at Xmas. I & a few others would collect money, go out & buy staples & some goodies for families in need & deliver them to Sally Ann who would divy them up. It changed over the years, but we did a similar collection for the needy until I retired.
I tried to encourage my husband to force this issue with his mgmt., but he feels he may be alienated. God damit, I said, stand up & be counted. I will continue to pressure him to do what he truly believes is right. If he doesn’t, I’ll double my donation to my charity at Xmas.
Well, looking past all the gobble-dee-gook, Canada is still fairing better than the rest of the world to date. I say, that’s pretty darn good. I still wonder what shape we’d be in if we were facing the dreaded Green Shift? As a farmer…I feel like we really dodged a bullet there!!!
Keep up the good work Mr. Flaherty and Harper!
By Leasa on 11.26.08 3:22 pm
How’s all that help for the agri business going Leasa. I hear Columbia grows some great agri pesticide products!!
“Dave Roberts: I guess the finance minister is as sharp as ours.
In the U.K. the drop in the VAT will save the average citizen 3 cents on a $7.00 bottle of shampoo that we buy here for 2.99.”
If all you buy in a year is one bottle of shampoo than your statement is correct. The average Canadian saved $200-300 on a 1% GST cut.
Hi Garth – I think should have a caption contest for that pic of Flim Flam.
What is going to happen to our country thats what i wonder? They talk about possible deficits?????? We are already there–75 billion in high risk mortgages (just wait till the crap starts hitting the fan on that one)-The real crash is yet to come.Every day the news is full of lost jobs and employers on the verge of bankrupcy–and every day as our unemployed numbers increase their finances are being eaten away.Our homes which have always been guaranteed security are no longer.Our governments first obligation in my opinion is the people and they should be hanging onto our cash.Pumpimg out money to failing enterprise is a no win situation and compounds the problem and the government does not have enough money to help them all–the list is getting longer daily! What will be left for our health care,pensions etc and assistance to the citizens who paid taxes all their lives? We have lending institutions (75 billion richer with our money)– is that not their job to decide if the risk warrants more credit and if so loan them money? —well in my opinion if they seen an opportunity to make money and felt it had a hope in hell of being paid back they would be dishing out the cash! Has our government’s role now become a lending institution for overextended,mismanaged,high risk corporations?? What qualifications do Harper and Flaherty have to make this decision with our money (our nest egg for bad times )?
Funny how the Cons beat their chest and claim that UK is cutting the VAT, a move that Harper did a couple years ago to stimulate the economy. However, the Conservatives either deliberately or unknowing skip over the fact that tax increases for top earners will occur and increases on alcohol, tobacco and petrol duties will rise to offset VAT cut.
If lowering the GST is the magical solution why not eliminate the GST totally and sit back and watch the economy bounce back?
How the tables have turned in just one year. The Conservatives were only thinking of getting the golden calf, a majority.
“October 30, 2007 at 5:34 PM EST
OTTAWA — The Conservative government, apparently swimming in more cash than even the most optimistic economist had predicted, will fulfill a campaign promise to cut the GST and introduce income tax cuts that will be felt when Canadians file their taxes for the current year.
The multi-billion dollar package of tax relief announced Tuesday by Finance Minister Jim Flaherty is intended to appeal to voters as Parliament prepares for a potential spring election. Even after the tax cuts, which will amount to more than $10-billion in the current fiscal year, there will be a projected surplus of $11.6-billion”
Where has all the billions gone?
Leasa: Please explain how “Canada is doing quite well”?
Dave Roberts: My point was that cutting the GST has done nothing to stimulate the economy. Middle and lower income Canadians do not spend their $$$ on high end items.
Want to help in a big way? Cut the GST on home heating costs. I mean completely. Cut the GST on essential services.
1% does not even offset the crazy increases in hydro, oil, gasoline, etc.
Maybe it`s time they became personally accountable—-maybe it is time to compensate them according to their performance as is the case in the real world—-how long would they work for zero pay before they realized maybe they were the problem & not us.
By Dr Mike from Rodney on 11.26.08 11:39 am
Dr. Mike – “…According to their perfromance in the real world…”.
Do you mean like most companies’ CEOs?? You know, the ones with the big paychecks and bonuses?
By Judy on 11.26.08 4:02 pm
Judy, the liberals killed off all the textile industry in this country years ago. They also helped most of our manufacturers out the door and delivered us to China. You know that. Subsidy for farmers was also killed off thanks to the Liberals…again in handing our industry over to China et el. Where ya been?
In facing an economic crisis, we are better off looking to the positive than the negative, at least until it’s over. Canada in comparison to the rest of the world IS doing quite well. Let’s just hope we can keep our heads collectively and look for solutions and quit all the personal childish vendettas. At least the CPC hasn’t panicked and sold out our health care, military, social services, education like Paul Martin did. That’s a good thing…right Judy?
By Leasa on 11.26.08 5:22 pm
Leasa – Get your head out of the sand. Canada’s textile & clothing industry went out of the door with NAFTA & then globalization.
The only reason the CPC hasn’t killed our health care and any other social programs is because they didn’t get a majority. They know if they try to impose their ideologucal beliefs too quickly that Cdns. will reject them outright. Did you not read/hear/listen to Harpie’s msg at the convention in Wpg.
Canada’s stable banking system is due to Liberal policies. Your saviour, if he had had his way would have removed all regulations. Leasa – I don’t know why I even bother to respond to you as your head is so up your ars. I guess you still think that GWB & his policies were great.
BTW, I worked for 3+ years in a buying office in Mtl., visited textile mills in the Eastern Townships, took textile courses & knew most of the clothing mfgrs in Mtl. I know how they have been decimated over the years.
What has Harper’s govt. done for you?
If all you buy in a year is one bottle of shampoo than your statement is correct. The average Canadian saved $200-300 on a 1% GST cut.
By dave roberts on 11.26.08 5:45 pm
Dave – what could people have saved if they had cut the income tax by 1/2%. That GST cut really only helped the wealthier consumers – tpyical of neocons.
What qualifications do Harper and Flaherty have to make this decision with our money (our nest egg for bad times )?
By john on 11.26.08 5:56 pm
Other than Dim Jim being appointed by Harper, he has NO QUALIFICATIONS to be FinMin, especially after his horrid debacle as Ontario’s FinMin. He is a totally unqualified politico like the rest of Harper’s cabinet.
Note the difference between the people Obama chooses for his cabinet and how the portfolios are handed out by Harper. What a sad, depressing joke for Ministers of anything. The Top Spots goes to the MP with the deepest Brown Nose, nothing more. It is like watching a child play with dolls. ‘Oh, aren’t you the pretty one! Well, I will make you my Royal Adviser. You shall be my Royal Tea Cup Server!”
BTW, ABC has a new show about real beauty. The Dimbo, Bimbo Blonde in the promo exemplifies the principle. ”Oh, look at my body. I am sooooo beautiful!’ She, of course, is two fundamental clicks short in the making of a clue about inner beauty. She is a typical superfilous Bimbo. The show may teach people the real difference between character and external nothingness. About time someone did that I say!
By Bill-Muskoka (not anymore) on 11.26.08 5:16 pm
Charging more then 60% interest per year is illegal under our criminal code, but don’t pay your taxes one year and see what CRA can charge for interest on the taxes owed. I think it is 20% per month, compounded.
What has Harper’s govt. done for you?
By Go Green on 11.26.08 6:35 pm
Oh, oh! A TOUGH question!
Hi Garth – I think should have a caption contest for that pic of Flim Flam.
By Go Green on 11.26.08 5:48 pm
How about ‘If I only had a brain’?
anywhichway it would come out, you know it,
By buddy, spare a dime? on 11.26.08 4:35 pm
True enough. However, we’re talking Harper and Flaherty here. Flaherty has a track record, its called the Ontario Government. It continued that track record with his flip-flop and overspending. And during the election continued his Canadian Shield mantra while everyone was saying the opposite.
So for those who didn’t vote to complain about him and his boss, you have no right too. If you voted CPC and are disappointed, speak up; if you voted against the CPC you have a right to express that Flaherty is an idiot.. but if you didn’t vote, you got what you deserved.
and while the downturn would have happened anyway, the question has to be asked who would we want in charge at this point in time. Unfortunately, the electorate had their chance and muffed and now we’re stuck with Harper and Flaherty.
Hi Garth – I think should have a caption contest for that pic of Flim Flam.
By Go Green on 11.26.08 5:48 pm
How about, “I can’t see you, so you can’t see me!”
or
“How did I get myself into this mess!”
Charging more then 60% interest per year is illegal under our criminal code, but don’t pay your taxes one year and see what CRA can charge for interest on the taxes owed. I think it is 20% per month, compounded.
By Marc on 11.26.08 6:42 pm
Marc – Please don’t raise my blood pressure more than it is.
I think we need to take a broader view of the circumstance we find ourselves in and examine the reaction. What I do find a bit puzzling is the current government’s inability to say anything. Ordinary people have no idea what to do but are looking to the newly re-elected government to show leadership.
One would have thought even dyed in the wool Conservatives would like to see some indication what the government is thinking. But it is silent. Not even legislation. It’s like Mr. Harper is strategizing for the next election.
Good grief! We know there will not be another election for at least two years. This government has to stop playing at being government and show us some ideas. I am so tired of hearing about what they did do and the deafening silence on what they plan to do.
Am I the only one to notice, given the circumstances, why does the Prime Minister of Canada not think he needs to be in the House anymore?
What has Harper’s govt. done for you?
By Go Green on 11.26.08 6:35 pm
Well he has given me.
1. Pension income splitting.
2. Increased the Pension credit amount.
3. Increased the age exemption amount
4. Increased the personal creditr amount.
5. Cut the GST by 2%
Since Harper became PM my income tax has decreased every year. While under the Liberals my income tax increased very year. Harper has done more for me and my family in three years then the Liberals have done in ten years. In other words the Conservative do for me while the Liberals do to me.
If your taxes increased every year under the Libs, then you were not living in Canada. BTW, Harper raised personal incomes taxes, then lowered them to the same level. And when I introduced Jim Flaherty to pension-splitting he rejected it – until he was looking for something to take the sting out of taxing income trusts. That’s consistency and principle for you. — Garth
Note the difference between the people Obama chooses for his cabinet and how the portfolios are handed out by Harper. What a sad, depressing joke for Ministers of anything. The Top Spots goes to the MP with the deepest Brown Nose, nothing more. It is like watching a child play with dolls. ‘Oh, aren’t you the pretty one! Well, I will make you my Royal Adviser. You shall be my Royal Tea Cup Server!”
BTW, ABC has a new show about real beauty. The Dimbo, Bimbo Blonde in the promo exemplifies the principle. ”Oh, look at my body. I am sooooo beautiful!’ She, of course, is two fundamental clicks short in the making of a clue about inner beauty. She is a typical superfilous Bimbo. The show may teach people the real difference between character and external nothingness. About time someone did that I say!
By Bill-Muskoka (not anymore) on 11.26.08 6:42 pm
Harpie appoints Minister of Funny Walks. Gd, I’ll never frget that Monty Python show – the original one.
Yes.Obama seems to have appointed some smart guys and most of the msm (except Faux News) agree. Did you hear Coulter broke her jaw & it’wired
I laugh about Harpie saying he’s going to curb MP & top silly servant’s pay but just added $4.7+ M. by creating more positions in his own top burocracy. Hyprocracy thy name is Harper.
Well this looming recession has caused a strain. My wife told me the other day, that I could no longer buy beer, as money was getting tight. Then I saw that she spent $65 on make up. I asked her why she can spend the money on make up and I cannot on beer. Her answer was that she has to buy make up to look pretty for me. I told her that is what the beer was for, and it is cheaper. I won’t bore you with the rest, but it wasn’t pretty, even with the makeup.
Leasa: Your beloved Steve has just returned from another free trade deal with drug lords (Columbia). What exactly has Steve done to stem the flow of jobs overseas?? or to Mexico?
He is only happy when he is opening markets for his rich buddies–who have no intention of opening shop here.
So now Harper and Flaherty want to stop subsidizing political parties. Says it would save 30 million a year.
I think we should axe the tax exemption for churches–how much revenue do we lose by giving churches a free ride?
Bill Muskoka–Note the difference between the people Obama chooses for his cabinet and how the portfolios are handed out by Harper. What a sad, depressing joke for Ministers of anything. The Top Spots goes to the MP with the deepest Brown Nose, nothing more. It is like watching a child play with dolls. ‘Oh, aren’t you the pretty one! Well, I will make you my Royal Adviser. You shall be my Royal Tea Cup Server!”
Isn’t that the truth! A know it all prime minister and a lap dog finance minister–Every business in the world expanded and became more profitable by exploiting the resources of their employees and seeking knowledge when they are running in circles searching for a solution.Well the federal government is the biggest business in Canada and bears a huge responsibility to the taxpayers.They appear to think they have all the answers? The state our country is in now and worse where were headed to any intelligent person would be to start eating some “humble pie”— .Their pathetic little amateur con job is running out of steam at an alarming rate!
don`t blame me, I never voted
By buddy, spare a dime? on 11.26.08 12:33 pm
Yes, I do blame you and everyone that did not vote, because you failed your fellow citizens in the time of need to stop this stupidity! Rope, all your are doing is deluding yourself!
And anyone who thinks that it is OK to let one of the big three automakers fail, think again because if one of them goes down and takes most of the parts suppliers with them, they all are gone. When any and all of thses auto giants fail, then all of their dealer networks tank as well. So then where will you get the parts to repair your older models? These are the very parts that are the ones too worn to be sold out of the auto wreckers. Once this scenerio plays out, guess what you will be paying for that foreign import new or used and how long the waiting list will be! See where shallow thinkers get to……….over their heads and unable to get to work if they can find any. Magna here today, goners tomorrow. If you have rope, go stretch it!
What qualifications do Harper and Flaherty have to make this decision with our money (our nest egg for bad times )?
By john on 11.26.08 5:56 pm
Technically they are the technical government. As all government is on a technical only basis no technical experience is technically necessary. I`d give you the technical explanation but I`m technically lmao.
where’s Harry S? I want to laugh at him. Harper, defict Jimmy and Harry,… Three retard morons
(I would have you doing 30 days for not voting!)
Any comments you make, regardless of topic, or viewpoint means nothing.
Spare you a dime? If you couldn’t be bothered to vote, Jock McBile has the appropriate saying! – Get ……
By James – Chatham on 11.26.08 3:09 p
I disagree, period. If you can’t make a decision and vote, you should be stripped of citizenship and booted the expletive deleted out of Canada. You are less than minimum standard for citizenship!
According to you the government has done nothing right. So stop bitching about it and start offering solutions.
By Van on 11.26.08 5:25 pm
ummm Van. Garth has been offering a solution in almost ever thread, vote against Harper.
It is an open blog, if you don`t think voting Liberal is a good enough solution you`re free here to offer up your own solution, or quit your bitching about the direction Garth takes his blog.
the peasants have to credit
Hi Garth – I think should have a caption contest for that pic of Flim Flam.
By Go Green on 11.26.08 5:48 pm
How about ‘If I only had a brain’?
By Bill-Muskoka (not anymore) on 11.26.08 6:45 pm
I’d say your caption would be in the top 1%.
Garth,
Perhaps the people of Canada should visit the G.G. and call a Spring Election and Boot Harper and the bunch of socks out of office all lies.
Mad as hell and will not take it anymore
“AN ALTERNATIVE” I will probably be condemned for this post by die hard party loyalists but im going to say my piece anyway! –Our political system in Canada has become nothing more than a vote buying scheme for power.Say the right things-support the right causes- suckhole to every minority and cumulatively acquire the most of the votes–are we all really that stupid?? It didn’t work for Harper in Quebec! In general i don’t think it works for any ethnic group. Canadians are starving for an honest no-bullshit government.We are obviously a very laid back permissive group but when the crap gets too deep we say whats the use and don’t vote. Our country is starving for some honesty and accountability in our political system.Harper with his manicured hair and line of bullshit is not fooling anyone.What political party or what leader does the average canadian have faith in to bring us out of the mess our economy is in now? I really don’t think there is one? PROVE ME WRONG?
At least the CPC hasn’t panicked and sold out our health care, military, social services, education like Paul Martin did. That’s a good thing…right Judy?
By Leasa on 11.26.08 5:22 pm
Yet!
I agree we need to look for solutions, but when we do go into deficit, somethings are going to have to give and the CPC haven’t told us their plan. Guess I’ll have to wait for tomorrow’s economic update.
Yes, the Libs did sell health care, the military etc..etc..etc.. but look at the history books. Had they not done so, they would have had to sell us to the IMF, because of the debt and deficit they inherited from previous governments, Liberal and Conservative.
Don’t know if your grandparents were in the UK in the 70′s, but the UK. was bailed out by the IMF and the cuts they required make the Cretien/Martin cuts look like scratches!
By Truth B Told on 11.26.08 8:30 pm
That’s fine for folks like me who are immigrants. But what do you do for the born and bred Canadian who can’t be bothered?
Funny, you were all in favour of a GST cut when you were a Conservative.
There was no economic crisis then. When the economy started to turn, I campaigned vigorously for an income tax cut rather than a second GST cut, as did virtually all economists. We were right. — Garth
By dave roberts on 11.26.08 12:29 pm
Garth is always right as is his followers………..have you not learned that yet? Best you read the blog more regularly.
By PaulB on 11.26.08 8:49 pm
It just might appear PMSH has given himself yet another phantom of rope by stating he will not act until next year on Canada’s economy well ahead of President(E) Obama on Jan 20th…. “Man will believe what you do not what you say”….. Canadians are watching, now if only we can get the MSN to watch.
I`d give you the technical explanation but I`m technically lmao.
By buddy, spare a dime? on 11.26.08 8:23 pm
lol
>>> how true technical being almost right== also being almost wrong therefore your almost always right
I must say that my confidence in the government was not high anyway but I specifically recall Harper say this in a press conference about 2 months ago:
” …the only way we will have a recession is if the conservatives do not get elected…”
They called an early election for no other reason than they saw the economic writing on the wall.
This government has displayed a complete lack of respect for average workers in Canada. They were swimming in surpluses not long ago and now the hide behind the “global economic crisis” as a means to steal from the average Canadian worker to try to correct their own inaction and stupidity.
Wake up people…this government is simply not to be trusted as far as I can see.
“So now Harper and Flaherty want to stop subsidizing political parties. Says it would save 30 million a year.
I think we should axe the tax exemption for churches–how much revenue do we lose by giving churches a free ride?
By Judy on 11.26.08 7:46 pm”
Flaherty’s soon-to-be-announced cutting of funding to political parties has got nothing to do with fiscal prudence. This is an obvious move to undercut democracy by removing funding from opposition parties. Harper knows full well that the opposition parties receive far more of their funding from this public source. Cutting this funding hobble effective opposition. Welcome to the Harper dictatorship.
So the G&M is reporting that Harper is going to cancel $1.95 subsidy to all political parties.
December is going to be an interesting month….
“Garth,
Perhaps the people of Canada should visit the G.G. and call a Spring Election and Boot Harper and the bunch of socks out of office all lies.
Mad as hell and will not take it anymore
By PaulB on 11.26.08 8:49 pm”
Paul B….unfortunately most Canadians are grossly uninformed and just too stupid to realize what is being done to them. Harper understands this and uses it to his advantage. Ranting about Harper’s stream of lies and misrepresentations is a waste of creative energy.
Hmmm…I’ll need to reduce my time here, and spend more time trying to figure out how we are to survive in a neoCon f***ed up Canada.
So for those who didn’t vote to complain about him and his boss, you have no right too.
James – Chatham on 11.26.08 7:06 pm
I`ve made it clear my objection is in supporting a broken system. There are many good people in Ottawa who could be supported under a working system of governance, so for me this is not about Dion or Harper.
I believe the majority should be heard with `none of the above` on the ballot as is their democratic right.
Why do you not find it prudent to allow the people to show non-confidence in the system?
the peasants have no credit
“. . . the finance minister will deliver an economic statement and begin a process of trying to save the nation from financial ruin. . . .”
Have we arrived at April Fools Day yet? Carney, harpo and dimdumb all colluded to spend recklessly, and I suppose with good reason — we are now in line with the rest of the world to swim in the cesspool which they have created for us.
Oh well. The good times were good while they lasted, but no more.
****************************************
Went to see the doc today, and he said I’m ‘still a technical living person’. Evidently I am still alive, but wot duz that meeen?
Remember the ‘net chatter not too long ago about a false flag op, between dubya’s exit and Obama’s entrance? How the Brits said that something “spectacular will happen”? How do they KNOW it WILL happen, unless it WAS a pre-planned event?
Something happened in Bombay today, India’s financial centre. Lots of carnage, but just suppose Pakistan is blamed for something it didn’t do? It may also follow the attacks in New Delhi on Sept. 13, and pose questions of who was responsible and for what reason did these attacks occur.
Someone will conveniently invent reasons and say that’s the truth, but look beyond that.
Since Musharaff got the heave-ho (a dubya puppet), Pakistan’s new govt. has cozied up to and signed new deals with China and Russia (new nuke power plants), and left the US high and dry — hence, more rocket attacks by the US military in Pakistan with al-Quaeda (which doesn’t exist) being their ‘target’.
India wants to boost ties with Iran; I guess that is a no-no, according to the current regime in DC. India and Pakistan both have nukes, but nowhere near as many as Israel and this is the one player everyone conveniently ignores — “By way of deception, thou shalt do war” — Motto of the Mossad. Israel is top-notch at quietly being The Devil’s Advocate.
The zionists would be very happy to see two countries, both predominantly non-Jewish blow each other to kingdom come. Meanwhile, most everyone else loses focus of the fiscal mish-mash by having their attention elsewhere.
*********************************************
To Charles Oxley (11.25.08 1:58 am)
“I’d think about converting a decent sum of money into precious metals. Not futures but physical bullion. I’m not a financial adviser by any means but I’d personally sleep a lot better at night.” — cms, 8:45 am
Good evening, cms.
Your response is accurate — never put all the eggs in one basket — and to have the physical bullion (1 oz. coins, etc.) is an effective counter-measure against inflation.
Buddy’s advice is also correct. So it becomes a 50/50 split except for one thing — I haven’t got that type of loot! Sure nice to dream about, ‘tho.
A few links. One concerns bullion’s increase in price due to inflation, which will take effect shortly; it does not include the impending hyper-inflation (at a local country like Zimbabwe now, which is currently around a billion or more per cent per month!).
http://tinyurl.com/6zfzek http://tinyurl.com/5ar5a2 http://tinyurl.com/6yx2yh
****************************************
“. . . the U.S. total debt (government and private) at $110 TRILLION . . .” — Bill, 9:47 am
Now y’all know why I went straight to the Fed with my request of a $5 Billion Bailout. Don’t deserve it, but what the hell!
****************************************
Strange head on rense.com — “Israelis Starve Gazans — Bush Pardons Turkeys”. Now what did turkeys do to dubya to deserve a pardon?!
****************************************
Now why would Russia be so friendly with Cuba? Here is one possible answer . . .
http://tinyurl.com/6cjezm
Sigh. If we had the Green Shift then Canada could be taking actual action to lift the economy. As well, we would have all been empowered to take action to help ourselves.
Harpo with power is like being handcuffed and forced to watch a pyromaniac burn my house down.
By Truth B Told on 11.26.08 8:30 pm
That’s fine for folks like me who are immigrants. But what do you do for the born and bred Canadian who can’t be bothered?
By James – Chatham on 11.26.08 9:56 p
I make no distictions, everyone’s ancestory leads back to immigration into N. America with the only exception of the Innuit. As an equal opportunist, kick out native borns as well if they are unwilling to be full partner citizens. I hate eveyone equally!
Barb – I am most interested to hear how the Green Shift would “lift the economy” and help Canada in this global crisis.
And Liberals stayed home instead of voting while others bought the CONs Crap.
Ya get what ya deserve.
4 more years.
What are the Conservatives playing at? Destroying democracy? That’s exactly what they’re doing if they end public subsidies.
I think Flaherty should go ahead and try it. Let all of Canada see their true colours. No agenda?
Very hubris of the Conservatives if the report is true.
I don’t think any party can do anything about the lying and deception now and in the near future simply because Flaherty will clip all their federal funding to the point that they could not even operate their own office. Worse, till they could not even afford to buy their toilet paper. So whine and bear it for now till Harper resigns from the party and that will be a century or more from now?
Flaherty to axe subsidies to political parties in fiscal update: sources
Last Updated: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 | 11:13 PM ET Comments279Recommend62CBC News
Finance Minister Jim Flaherty is set to deliver a fiscal update Thursday in Ottawa. (Frank Gunn/Canadian Presss)
The Conservatives are poised to eliminate the public subsidies that Canada’s five major political parties receive, a move that would save $30 million a year but could cripple the opposition.
Sources told CBC News and other media outlets Wednesday that the subsidy cut is one of the key elements of the fiscal update that Finance Minister Jim Flaherty will present Thursday in Ottawa.
Parties currently receive $1.95 for every vote they receive in a federal election, provided they win at least two per cent of the nationwide popular vote. The annual subsidy is used to pay for staff and expenses.
On the surface, it would appear Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s Conservatives have the most to lose if subsidies were cut because they garnered the most votes in the October election. The Conservatives earned $10 million in subsidies, compared to $7.7 million for the Liberals, $4.9 million for the NDP, $2.6 million for the Bloc Québécois and $1.8 million for the Greens.
But because the Conservatives have such a strong fundraising base, their subsidy represents only 37 per cent of the party’s total revenues.
By comparison, the subsidy amounts to 63 per cent of the Liberals’ funding, 86 per cent of the Bloc’s, 57 per cent of the NDP’s and 65 per cent of the Greens’.
Ploy aimed at ‘bankrupting the Liberal party’
“It’s a very cynical ploy on Mr. Harper’s part obviously geared toward bankrupting the Liberal party more than helping out the Canadian taxpayer,” said Green Leader Elizabeth May.
Liberals said the fiscal update should focus on specific measures to help Canadians rather than on party subsidies.
“Is this really what we should be talking about, or should we be talking about the real measures that are going to help [Canadians] have a more secure job, more secure pensions and [allow their] savings to grow or at least be more secure?” Liberal MP Gerard Kennedy said.
But Vic Toews, a Conservative and president of the Treasury Board, rejected the suggestion that a subsidy cut would mostly affect the opposition.
“It would hurt us the most,” said Vic Toews, although he would not officially confirm that subsidy cuts were part of the fiscal update.
A steady stream of leaks about the content of the fiscal update has been funneled to the media in recent days. The details suggest the Conservatives want to portray themselves as willing to share in Canadians’ economic pain.
“I urge the member to wait until tomorrow, and we will see who wants to lead by example,” House Leader Jay Hill said Wednesday in Ottawa.
Other items expected in the update:
Cuts to substantial salary increases for federally appointed judges.
Measures to rein in spending by MPs and top civil servants, such as new restrictions on travel and expenses.
Elimination or trimming of the roughly $6,500-per-MP salary increase scheduled to go into effect April 1, at a cost of $2 million.
Cancellation of Christmas bonuses for management-class civil servants and executives of Crown corporations.
Temporary relief for Canadians from mandated withdrawals from registered retirement income funds (RRIFs), a measure estimated to be worth about $135 million.
A likely concession that Canada is heading for both a recession and a deficit.
Thursday’s update will not contain the multi-billion-dollar stimulus package being prepared to help Canadians weather the global financial crisis. That measure will be announced in the budget early next year.
“Tomorrow’s statement, as I said to the House before, is not a mini-budget. It is an economic update,” Flaherty said.
Thursday’s measures — particularly the controls on MP and bureaucrat expenditures — were dismissed by opposition parties as symbolic gestures that pale compared to the responses from other nations.
“They’re into the gimmicky stuff, and they’re not acting quickly enough on the substantive issues that are affecting people,” said Vancouver Liberal MP Ujjal Dosanjh.
Since the economic slowdown accelerated into a global crisis earlier this fall, international governments have created stimulus packages to help their economies. The U.S. has already begun spending or committed to spend $1.5 trillion US, while Britain has put up $418 billion, Germany $213 billion, Japan $275 billion and China $600 billion.
Canada has announced no new stimulus, although it injected more than $100 billion into domestic money markets to ensure banks have sufficient capitalization to continue lending to homeowners and businesses.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/11/26/update-subsidy.html
I think all opposition parties should vote against this economic update. It was fine for Harper to waste $300M on the recent election. It’s a brilliant political move on their part, but not for Canadian democracy.
Three retard morons
By Zorpheous on 11.26.08 8:23 pm
That’s extremely offensive. If you had any cred…consider it gone. L
Cutting this funding hobble effective opposition. Welcome to the Harper dictatorship.
By TS on 11.26.08 10:15 pm
How very true! Perhaps he should reduce the size of his cabinet also–which he has enlarged 46%. Our country is in a mess and his only interest is playing political games ohhhhhhhhh yes supreme power is the goal!
believe the majority should be heard with `none of the above` on the ballot as is their democratic right.
Why do you not find it prudent to allow the people to show non-confidence in the system?
the peasants have no credit
By let them pay cash on 11.26.08 10:22 pm
And I have said before that I agree with you that “none of the above” should appear on the ballot.
If your majority wants to make a statement about the current system, they should go and vote and spoil their ballots. Then ask the question how many were spoiled and why?
Although I don’t think all of the 40% or so who didn’t vote were driven by the same reasons as yourself, I would expect the number of spoilt ballots would be on par with the votes cast for the second place party at least.
Thats a more definitive protest, because there was time and effort spent making it, rather than saying I don’t like the system so I’m staying home!
By TS on 11.26.08 10:15 pm
Well said… if I may had Harper should show leadership and payback his ADSCAM taxpayer monies and drop the 10% er plan… as a matter of fact the opposition should jump on it because Harper & Co will not allow any other mail than theirs to make it out the door… hello opposition parties.
John,
I unreservedly second you 9:46 last night. “Say the right things – support the right causes- suckhole to every minority and cumulatively acquire the most of the votes –” yes, we are that stupid. And no, there is no political party or leader worthy of confidence on the horizon.
We are looking at a lengthy “winter of our discontent” without seeing a “sun of York.” Ignatieff is not the man to ignite the faithful and inspire the masses to get off their asses. Dominic Leblanc is the son of Speaker Romeo: so what? And Rae (the “sadder but wiser” politician for me) would not be able to survive the hostile flak in an election.
The only way out of our political dead-end is going to be revulsion “à la Mulroney” with the Harper Government, and that will take time and pain to build to the explosive level.
I have a feeling that Prime Minister Dion could be in the cards after today…
If all you buy in a year is one bottle of shampoo than your statement is correct. The average Canadian saved $200-300 on a 1% GST cut.
BY DAVE ROBERTS ON 11.26.08 5:45 PM
They dropped the GST down by one per cent, and promised that the savings would be passed on to the consumer. That was an outright lie by Harper and Clement. For the third quarter, right after they dropped the GST the first time, refiner profits per litre rose by 1.9 cents a litre. Those stats are from a statement from a chief oil industry analyst to the Minister of Energy. Since then the refiner margins on gas, diesel and home heating fuel have gone up and up.
http://www.parrysound.com/voice/1227291823/
Hello do some research on gas and oil and the GST cuts and you will find they (big oil) has picked up the deduction of the GST as extra profit and not passed on to the consumers . I know this as a true fact for this is what I do study gas and oil numbers you should do the same.
Did you hear Coulter broke her jaw & it’wired
By Go Green on 11.26.08 7:34 pm
ALRIGHT! Now that makes me smile.
Watched ‘Hancock’ on DVD last night. Will Smith is THE ACTION HERO! Great plot, hilarious consequences for the bad Boys, and fantastic action and acting.
Wish I could get that good of feeling from watching my government in action. NOT!
Oh well, another 54 days or so, Obama takes the oath of office, and maybe there will be a cross migration between Canada and the U.S.? All the Redneck Rethuglicans will move here, and all freedom loving Canadians will move there?
Who knows?
Meanwhile, when will we see the next abstention by Dion and his Liberals? Surely, they will do an encore performance? It was so successful in the last Parliament, eh?
By Charles Oxley on 11.26.08 11:11 pm
Regarding Cuba’s oil reserves. When we were last there we watched a Canadian geo-research ship methodically plotting the sea bed using SONAR. They have an air cannon that emits a very strong WHOOMPH every few seconds and the resounded information is plotted. We had also seen a Russian ship on a previous visit.
Cuba estimates offshore oil reserves of 20 billion barrels
Canadian company Sherritt has canceled its oil-production contract for Cuban waters of the Gulf of Mexico, saying that it was not worth continuing with exploration in the area. Sherritt had contracts to develop four blocks off the northwest coast of Cuba. Repsol YPF, StatoilHydro, ONGS, Petronas, PDVSA and PetroVietnam continue to operate in the area.
The oil reserve that gets me is off the coast of Viet Nam. Was that the REAL reason the U.S. wasted 58,000 lives? Would not surprise me one iota.
Watched a program on Fermi Labs research grant devastation last night. Bush, the aniti-science Preznut, cut their funding and they are no longer viewed as a world leader in basic theoretical physics research. Hello CERN and the LHC (Large Hadron Collider).
The new Democratic Congress is trying to fund them to keep a brain drain from happening. Bush treats science like Harper does the arts. Neither of them comprehends the long term contributions such endeavours contribute to society.
Federal budget impact on Fermilab and HEP
Fermilab to cut 200 jobs, staff forced to take unpaid days off
The very belief that Conservatives are, in fact, fiscal conservatives is an urban legend created by the morons in the MSM.
Ancient Egypt ‘s Pharoahs knew that they must insure the future by storing up grain in the good years to tide the people over in the lean years.
Paul Martin knew and understood the principle well, but not Harper or his lap puppet Widdle Jimmy. He has used up the emergency supplies and now the Harbinger of Death is staring him in the face saying ‘FOOL!
Oh, and next time Harper talks about caring about our troops perhaps someone will remind him of this? U.S. offered Forces early delivery of planes
Seems decision making is NOT a strong point of the Conswervative Ideologues? Unless, of course, it gains them more power. What a bunch of totally inept losers, and we get to pay the tab. Thanks a lot!
If your majority wants to make a statement about the current system, they should go and vote and spoil their ballots.
By James – Chatham on 11.27.08 8:46 am
There is no movement involved in spoiling their ballots, only ignoring the futility of watching the same wagon load of used hay pulled around the block by teams of political fanatics.
There has been talk of lawn signs with a check box on none of the above, we`ll see if that embarrasses Elections Canada enough to give the majority a voice.
Hello do some research on gas and oil and the GST cuts and you will find they (big oil) has picked up the deduction of the GST as extra profit and not passed on to the consumers . I know this as a true fact for this is what I do study gas and oil numbers you should do the same.
By tim pellett on 11.27.08 10:09 am
The LCBO did the very same thing. GST went down, prices did NOT! I asked them why and got chicken entrails waved in my face by the store manager, typical Voodoo economics.
Garth your column is refreshing to read for its honesty. Remember Flaherty as Finance Minister of Ontario saying that he had a balanced budget and when the liberals took over in Ontario there was a 2-5 billion deficit? Was Flaherty telling the truth? or when he said that Canada was not in recession before the last election ? Now, Flaherty is saying that the Federal gov’t will no doubt have a budget deficit and a recession by next year ;however, Mr Flaherty said two years ago that the Cons will never go into a Federal budgetary deficit when a Con gov’t is in power ??? Hmmmmm sounds like Orwellian double speak?? Truth is out there?
Bill Muskoka ——–The oil reserve that gets me is off the coast of Viet Nam. Was that the REAL reason the U.S. wasted 58,000 lives? Would not surprise me one iota.>>>>> ………..oh yes and we have Afghanistan also>>>>
In 1998, Dick Cheney, now US vice-president but then chief executive of a major oil services company, remarked: “I cannot think of a time when we have had a region emerge as suddenly to become as strategically significant as the Caspian.” But the oil and gas there is worthless until it is moved. The only route which makes both political and economic sense is through Afghanistan
Truth is out there?
BY SCOTTY ON 11.27.08 11:41 AM
Lets bring down this house of cards -stop the lying and the manipulation by the Harper Clowns and wake-up the majority of Canadians by making them pay for another election until we get it right and stop the bleeding.BCE would not have happened if the Harper-bots had not lied to us about income trusts.
This deficit would not have happened if the Harper Clowns had not increased taxes and reduced the GST.
From one blunder to another but we need an articulate opposition that can focus our attention on the only issue that matters to most of us and that is the economy.
Which Party has the guts to tell the Canadian voter that we got it wrong and until we wake up and VOTE we are all going to keep going back to the polls until we have majority leadership that cares about our country not just ideology!
There has been talk of lawn signs with a check box on none of the above, we`ll see if that embarrasses Elections Canada enough to give the majority a voice.
By let them pay cash on 11.27.08 11:26 am
Hey Stupid, nothing you or anybody says or does embarrasses any civil servant as long as their unions have tenure. And NON OF THE ABOVE is a wasted effort in futility. If you want to get power, take a page out of Steven “Crappers” book and do a take over of an existing political party. He did and it worked!
Love it or hate it, but the reality is there. Now go clear your addled thinking organ and do some back to basics real thinking for a change. All you have spouted here under your various handles is just trash talk.
Hey Stupid,
By Truth B Told on 11.27.08 12:27 pm
Great opening line, pick that up at the bottom of your vodka bottle?
“embarrasses any civil servant”
Elections Canada is an entity not a civil servant.
“wasted effort in futility”
Double negative,
wasted on vodka is futile
“If you want to get power”
This is about a dysfunctional and broken system but nice try changing the channel to a soap.
“Love it or hate it, but the reality is there.”
Seems a weak line for a high profile drama queen, you might think about hiring a writer.
“trash talk”
I acquiescence to your cognoscente on the subject of trash talk.
Please by fully aware any posts I make are not directed in any way shape or form in your direction, please feel free to ignore any future posts made under the same homepage.
no credit?
By john on 11.27.08 12:09 pm
Oh yeah! Cheney will make anything ‘oil right’ given the Green Light by himself!
Waiting to see if his indictment holds?
Talk about a guy who deserved the handle of ‘Slick Dick’, I cannot think of anyone more deserving.
“there was a certified accountant who is also a farmer, dissected the plan”
Why don’t you post his name and the “dissection” for all to read so he can feel really embarrassed when he realizes you used his name in an exagerrated half-truth smear campaign.
Lowering personal income taxes with the Green Shift and taxing Polluters has been applauded and accepted around the world. Enough with your blogroachette Sarah Palin style campaigning already.
I have a feeling that Prime Minister Dion could be in the cards after today…
BY CMS ON 11.27.08 9:40 AM
CMS, I’ve been thinking the same thing this week.
I’ve been watching the Conservative’s usual signals, including the warning flare they usually shoot up, and I think Tom Flanagan is signaling that Harper is about to do something really stupid, really “ideologue” in the next few months.
Opposition parties won’t support Tory economic update
Well, well, well? So, here we go again? No, I do not think so. Either the Liberals stand up AGAINST Hasrper’s fiasco and power play like the MP’s they are supposed to be or this Candian will be voting for Jack Layton and the NDP if there is another election.
No more abstention, cowardly games, NO SIR! Do the JOB or haul your pathetic arse outta here.
At least Dion has said he will NOT support Dim Jim’s Joke du jour. Now he better put his feet solidly on the floor of the HoC along with every other Liberal MP and stand UP for Canada.
Then get a working coalition together and get this country MOVING FORWARD. GET IT DONE DION!
As to the taxpayer funded campaign, well, Andrew Coyne supports ridding Canada of this albatros.
One commenter, among many thoughtful comments, on his blog made a very good point.
Getting politics off the dole
Here here!
The Greens I’ve been talking to are up-in-arms about this for reasons I don’t entirely understand. I mean,
I know the Tories are doing this for terrible reasons. And automatically opposing anything this crowd does is generally a good idea.
BUT.. The Greens have to ask themselves – what is the money being spent on? It’s being spent on political ‘arms race’ items like millions of disposable signs on public property and mindless TV ads. I don’t know why any Green anywhere should support public financing of such waste.
Mike Moffatt
Just think how much cleaner our landscapes will be without all those damn campaign sings. think how much more time will be spent actually talking to people instead of trying to drive stakes in the competition’s ground?
Great idea I say. Campaign signs are a leftover scourge of the Old Days, like most of the politicians.
Look at what a REAL leader, Barack Obama, did. Coyne details it concisely.
What a bunch of coconuts the Conservatives are…
The Libs, Bloc and NDP had better vote down these clowns.
They clearly have no idea whatsoever.
Come on…for once let’s see the opposition actually do something save Canada from these baffoons.
By Bill-Muskoka (not anymore) on 11.27.08 6:43 pm
Campaign signs are similer to billboards. I try not to look at them when I drive past, and I try not to purchase the product that is advertised. They have past their best buy date, and it is time to try to market each party differently then wasteful signs that will bare the name of the candidate for generations in a landfill. After we are all gone and future generations look back on our Plastic Age, they will be saying, who the hell was (enter candidates name) and why was the need for so many signs with their name on it?
By Marc on 11.27.08 9:31 pm
No kidding. I expect the sign maker industry to rise up in massive protests, marching in the streets against Dim Jim’s denial of their profits.
Bet he didn’t think about all those lost votes from the sign makers, eh?
As to future archaeology finds, well just watch the movie ‘Wall E’, that is the world’s logical future.
Citibank states Gold to $2000 , collapse of the US and then depression! Interesting from a bankrupt bank..
Hit my name for the report